avoid krausen when bottling/racking

[RippinLt]

Does the krausen layer at the top end up being sediment at the bottom of the fermenter after racking. What I mean is when racking will you siphon from the bottom and stop once the krausen hits the siphon tube at the bottom..

 

[northernlad]

If you are siphoning while you have krausen you'll have more things to worry about.
You may have your terminology mixed up.
Krausen falls after fermentation so if you still have some then you need to wait a couple more weeks.

 

[ridnpowder]

+1
I rack into the clarifier/conditioner after the primary fermentation slows or nearly stops, usually a week later. At this point in time there should be no krausen at the top of the beer, only sediment at the bottom.

 

[BigB]

I believe what the OP is asking, is if the krausen from the fermentation ends up as the trub/sediment after fermenation. And the answer would be yes, as well as dead yeast, grain particles, and other things. And yes, you would quit siphoning just before the trub starts to get siphoned. The little black tip on the siphon helps with that. A little bit of trub being siphoned at the beginning is normal though.

 

[RippinLt]

My first fermentation is nearing completion. I did not know that the top sayer subsides when the yeast are finished with primary fermentation. Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[Revvy]

If you are bottling while there is still krausen on the beer, you are bottling when your beer is still fermenting, and more than likely you will ahve 2 cases of exploading bottles.

If you are racking to a secondary while there is still krausen, you will probably get a stuck fermentation..

In other words if you still have krausen on top of your fermenter, then it is too soon to be thinking about doing ANYTHING with your beer except letting it finish fermenting.

It sounds like you are brewing by a calendar, or instructions and not by what your beer is really doing, the problem is that yeast don't know how to read so they seldom follow their scripts. They dance to their own tune and its seldom 4 x 4 Time. The way to know when a beer is done when 2 consequitive hydro readings over 3 days stay the same.

If you arbitrarily move your beer, like to follow the silly 1-2-3 rule, you will often interrupt fermentation. Because sometimes the yeast won't even begin to ferment your beer until 72 hours after yeast pitch, so if you rush the beer off the yeast on day 7 then you are only allowing the yeast 4 days to work, and that is really not enough time to get the job done.


You'll find that more and more recipes these days do not advocate moving to a secondary at all, but mention primary for a month, which is starting to reflect the shift in brewing culture that has occurred in the last 4 years, MOSTLY because of many of us on here, skipping secondary, opting for longer primaries, and writing about it. Recipes in BYO have begun stating that in their magazine. I remember the "scandal" it caused i the letters to the editor's section a month later, it was just like how it was here when we began discussing it, except a lot more civil than it was here. But after the Byo/Basic brewing experiment, they started reflecting it in their recipes.

Many of us leave our beer alone in primary for a month, to let the beer actually finish and then to let the yeast clean up after itself.

Or if we rack to secondary, we don't even begin checking the gravity for 10-12 days after yeast pitch. (If I secondary I usually don't do in til 2 weeks after I pitch my yeast, not anytime sooner.)

Slow down.....let the yeast do their job....They are experts, and rarely let us down.

Don't do anything til the krausen falls, and then wait at least a week longer.

 

[Revvy]

My first fermentation is nearing completion. I did not know that the top sayer subsides when the yeast are finished with primary fermentation. Thanks for clearing that up!

How do you know your "first fermentation is nearing completion?"

I never know when that is and I've been brewing for years....unless I use a hydrometer.

The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in....

Thinking about "doing anything" like repitching, or bottling, or racking, without first taking a hydrometer reading is tantamount to the doctor deciding to cut you open without running any diagnostic tests....Taking one look at you and saying, "Yeah I'm going in." You would really want the doctor to use all means to properly diagnose what's going on?

 

[BigB]

Many of us leave our beer alone in primary for a month, to let the beer actually finish and then to let the yeast clean up after itself.


Slow down.....let the yeast do their job....They are experts, and rarely let us down.

This was the best advice I received when I first started brewing. Followed closely by maintain temperture control during fermentation.

 

[benharper13]

so if the trub at the bottom is dead yeast how is the bottle conditioning done?

 

[Yooper]

so if the trub at the bottom is dead yeast how is the bottle conditioning done?

The yeast isn't dead. It ate all the fermentables, so it went dormant. Once you add more fermentables, like in bottle conditioning, the yeast will become active again.

 

[benharper13]

so not all the yeast are in the trub right? and can you look at bottled beer and see it being conditioned?

 

[Nurmey]

There are millions of yeast in suspension even in a crystal clear beer. The trub is just the "extra" yeast that isn't needed for bottle conditioning.

 

[KevinW]

The trub is actually dead yeast, live yeast, break material (cold and hot), hop sediment, grain sediment, and probably some more stuff that I cannot even pronounce!

There is live yeast floating in beer for a few weeks after fermentation and it is those guys that eat up the sugar we add at bottling. If you let your beer sit for a long time like a few months or if you filter your beer you generally remove the yeast from suspension so traditional bottle conditioning cannot be done without adding more yeast.

 

[Nurmey]

That is not quite correct. I have let many beers set for 8 months without having to add more yeast. It carbonated just fine.

Also, it is very rare for dead yeast to be in the trub. Dead yeast releases a toxin that is fatal to live yeast (autolysis) and as often as we've let beer sit on a yeast pile for months (up to 18 months), I've never had the yeast cake cause any problems.

 

[RippinLt]

I say nearing the end of fermentation because it has been two weeks and I have seen little to know activity from my airway. Now before anyone gets excited and starts telling me that I cannot use my airway valve as a guide to tell me that fermentation is complete, I am not going to bottle because I dont see bubbles. Im simply using this as a tool to tell me that it is time to start thinking about hydro testing and clarifying my racking procedure. I could test and be fermenting for another 2 weeks, I am aware, but the more I post and ask on this site, the easier the time goes by.

As for secondary info. I am a new brewer and am setting some basic rules to follow early on. I plan on never routinely using 2ndary fermentation. I may give it a shot just to see what all of the fuss is about but I trust the big guns on here that talk about the month long primary instead of the 2 week 2 week primary to 2ndary. The other reason ill do it is to add fruit, which Im pretty pumped about doing. Thanks again everyone.

 

[RippinLt]

And i cannot even see my krausen through my white bucket. I trust its there because of my violent bubbling. The part i didnt understand was that it will dissipate after the yeast fill their bellies and fall asleep.

 

[logan3825]

I think of oxygen as a yeast social lubricant. When you first put the yeast in they have a huge party and start reproducing. Once all the oxygen is tapped out they start to do the job they were hired for, making alcohol and CO2. Once their work is done the lazier ones fall asleep and the rest start cleaning up the mess they left from their party.

 

[benharper13]

another somewhat related question John Palmer says you can sanitize your bottles by just using the the dishwasher on hot, is this recommended?

 

[stjackson]

^ I did that on my first batch, and I had no problems. The friend that advised me to do so has also been doing his bottling that way for several years, and as far as I know, he's never had a problem with it either.

You should make sure your bottles are clean before you put them in to santize, though. Make sure there isn't any crud in them and rinse them really well first. Also, and you may already know this, but don't use any detergent.

I did mine in the dishwasher and when they finished, I just used the open door as a platform on which to place my bottles as I filled them. (Had the bottle bucket on the counter) When I was done, I just closed the door and there was no mess.

 

[akthor]

I say nearing the end of fermentation because it has been two weeks and I have seen little to know activity from my airway.

Then you say:

And i cannot even see my krausen through my white bucket. I trust its there because of my violent bubbling.

Color me confused??????

 

[RippinLt]

heres what i mean.

Fermentation began and I assume there was krausen on the top because of the volcanic airlock. I never looked in but i assume krausen comes with fermentation.

Now fermentation has slowed dramatically and I am unsure if the layer is still present or if it has disipated