Automating Kettle Filling?

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Hoosier-Brewer

Hoosier-Brewer

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I have searched and searched here and elsewhere and I can't find the solutions that I want. It took an hour to put 8.75 gallons in the kettle last weekend.

I am looking for a way to automate the filling process and it would be awesome if I could find a way to control it with my phone and even alexa. I can set the water to my desired flow rate the night before, but any ideas on a fairly simple way to start the water flowing from my phone? I brew in a separate 2400SF building that is my man cave we call the Lodge.

I was looking at the Brewtroller motorized valve and others like it, but the automating part is where I am falling short. The other thing I want to do is set a certain amount of water and then have it auto shutoff. At this point I'm not interested in further automation like starting the EVB-SV system, just filling and measuring. I am willing to spend some money on the right solution if anyone has any good ideas. Any ideas appreciated.
 
I can't think of any off-the-shelf options for just that piece right now. You could build something with a micro controller, pressure sensors and the like if you really wanted to.

BrewTroller could handle what you want with little to no problem, but thats quite a bit of overkill for the one simple task. BrewTroller would use a pressure sensor and could full a precise volume of water into your kettle.
 
A simple 120VAC float switch, and a 120VAC 2 way solenoid valve would solve your problem. You would need to add a threaded connection to your kettle at the top. You can buy weldless fittings from any online homebrew supplier, and look on mcmaster carr for a valve and float switch. Shouldnt be too hard, adn you can take it all off when you go to brew.
 
MMP126 said:
A simple 120VAC float switch, and a 120VAC 2 way solenoid valve would solve your problem. You would need to add a threaded connection to your kettle at the top. You can buy weldless fittings from any online homebrew supplier, and look on mcmaster carr for a valve and float switch. Shouldnt be too hard, adn you can take it all off when you go to brew.
Click to expand...

I thought of that as well.. but I think the OP wants something more adjustable. Not always filling to the same spot. IF I'm wrong, then this is DEAD SIMPLE!

For sure go with a solenoid instead of a motorized ball valve for clear water fills as well. Motorized ball valves are slow to open/close where as solenoids are very fast.
 
I looked into this using an arduino and an ultrasonic hc-sr04 distance module. I got a prototype working where the width of the pulses being returned by the module was inversely proportional to the volume of fluid in the kettle. the arduino could be configured to take in a specified volume from the user based on this as reading pulse widths is relatively simple with an arduino

It ended up on my to do list. Still there
 
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Automated filling has been hashed to death here and elsewhere. Weight, resistive strips, flowmeters, timed orifices, etc. The best solution from my personal experience is a hydrostatic pressure sensor.

Anyway, every solution requires back end controls, and the OP contradicted himself and said no more automation. Hence my post above.
 
I used this setup on my mashtun to control my Sparge water pump, so the pump would shut off before the mashtun overfilled with the lid on. It's hooked up to a Leviton occupancy sensor power pack, so the float has 24v Dc going to it, that controls a 20a relay in the power pack. It would be pretty easy to attach to a solenoid valve, controlling remotely that's another story, maybe use one of those remote control WiFi controlled outlets?

50475597726__438B0020-1C3C-473C-B430-B12D24E35CAA.jpg
 
BrunDog said:
I don't understand this post. Why did it take an hour to fill a kettle? Are you using a shot glass to carry water from the sink to the pot?!?
Click to expand...

I had two prior batches that were off a little and I am attributing it to the water. I have a cheap box store single cartridge 5 micron carbon filter for brewing water. I also had an RV white hose on it at 25'. What I found was if I ran the water wide open the filter didn't seem to be doing it's job and I had a slight hose taste.

So I tried a couple of things and ended up cutting the hose down to about 4.5', cleaning it and running star san in it. If I had the water on full flow it didn't taste as good as when it was trickled in. I figure at a trickle the filter is working, or working better.

I'm brewing right now and it I was about 30 minutes for ~7.2 gallons and thesweet wort tasted great. I could probably add a triple filter bank and go with more flow, but I want to dabble with some automation a little.
 
MrShake said:
I thought of that as well.. but I think the OP wants something more adjustable. Not always filling to the same spot. IF I'm wrong, then this is DEAD SIMPLE!

For sure go with a solenoid instead of a motorized ball valve for clear water fills as well. Motorized ball valves are slow to open/close where as solenoids are very fast.
Click to expand...

Float switch is out unless it can easily be adjustable. Solenoid can also cause a hammer because they close too fast and I have plastic pipe. I don't need perfect, but I want something to meter and fill with auto shut off and preferably can be automated by an app.
 
BeardedBrews said:
Mount one of these on a stick that goes up and down?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006Z968LK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Or use one of these and a stopwatch?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006FLGHGE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Or plumb in one of these and count the pulses?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K0TFZN8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I have a few of these that I use at home regularly for filling applications:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005BIGBCC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

:D
Click to expand...

That stainless float switch could be an option. Haha on the last one. :D
 
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Brewer Gerard said:
I looked into this using an arduino and an ultrasonic hc-sr04 distance module. I got a prototype working where the width of the pulses being returned by the module was inversely proportional to the volume of fluid in the kettle. the arduino could be configured to take in a specified volume from the user based on this as reading pulse widths is relatively simple with an arduino

It ended up on my to do list. Still there
Click to expand...

I talked to one of my smart guys at work that build machines for us, he's also a big tinkerer. He showed me one of the pressure sensors we use at work on some specialty equipment and said it might work. They are pricey, about half that at Banner Engineering, but I could probably get one for cheap or even free. We replace them on a schedule on one machine, even if they are not bad. He could have a solution for me, but he is always busy and only in 3 days a week, working towards retirement. I don't know ardruino or raspi, but I could learn.
 
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BrunDog said:
All the information needed is already on this forum. I want to be helpful instead of those a-holes, but it gets tiring repeating yourself, so with with some proper time searching/researching, you will learn what you need.
Click to expand...

Like I said in the OP, I searched here and elsewhere and didn't find a solution. Google is my friend, I generally always search out things on my own first as there is a wealth of info here and elsewhere. Sometimes you get stuck and that is where I am. I understand your position I guess, thanks anyway.
 
02RedWS6TA said:
Now it closes it when it's on and opens it when it's off. I still use it to load water but not automatically anymore.
Click to expand...

Can you change the valve parameter from NO to NC? It's very common to have those options.
You should be able to use any valve of your choice as long the voltage and current rating meet the specs.
 
One decision is digital (point) or analog (variable) measurement? Another is temporary or permanent install?

If just filling, as noted above, a float switch mounted on a bracket which slides on a rod would work and it can power a solenoid directly.

If you want variable, the above flow type should work... my guess is Red had a fluke. Or something like www.vegetronix.com/Products/AquaPlumb/ but I don't see your need for variable measurement.

If you want DIY, and if you are just doing filling, and prefer a non-installed solution, use a pressure sensor mounted at the end of a small stainless tube. Search air bubbler. You can do likewise without the bubbler as you won't need it.

As far as controls go, you can use an Arduino or other MCU if you have the programming skills.
 
BrunDog said:
If you want variable, the above flow type should work... my guess is Red had a fluke. Or something like www.vegetronix.com/Products/AquaPlumb/ but I don't see your need for variable measurement.

As far as controls go, you can use an Arduino or other MCU if you have the programming skills.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting the AquaPlumb.
This may create a problem if a high volume pump is used, like in my setup.

"If the senor wire is slightly wet, above the current water level, yes, it will affect the reading slightly." I don't know what they mean by slightly.
 
BrunDog said:
All the information needed is already on this forum. I want to be helpful instead of those a-holes, but it gets tiring repeating yourself, so with with some proper time searching/researching, you will learn what you need.
Click to expand...

This is not very helpful. I have tried to search for information without success at times. A question on HBT has gotten replies with links that gave me direction in minutes that I did not find with hours of searching on my own.

If you don't want to help, OK. But to just say to "search" is kind of mean!
 
I understand - I make every effort to help and willingly repeat answers all the time. I have scoured this forum and I am confident of many topics which are frequented and the related information available. I think I reacted to the confusing (to me) first post.
 
woo_pig said:
Man talking about dragging the brew day out.
Click to expand...

I agree. Granted my tap water seems to be very good. I just filter through a household charcoal filter. I run in the water as fast as it will go. It takes less than 5 minutes, probably much less than that, I have never timed it, to fill my HLT with up to 10 gallons.

Seems like a different filtering system would be a better route to pursue.
 
ClaudiusB said:
Can you change the valve parameter from NO to NC? It's very common to have those options.
You should be able to use any valve of your choice as long the voltage and current rating meet the specs.
Click to expand...

I have no clue. It doesn't have any instructions and the people that sold it were zero help. I got a refund and got to keep it.

I see no way to access any settings but maybe I can take another look and see. It still beeps when it hits the mark so I usually just walk over and shut it off when it beeps.
 
Hey Hoosier... I thought I posted a summary after getting called out for not being helpful... I see now that post didn't post, so will attempt to recreate:

There are lots of options. First decision is temporary or permanent install. Second is binary or analog (variable). If temporary/binary, I would mount a float switch onto a rod with a variable position mount. Hard-wire the switch to a water solenoid, can all be off the shelf components, runnng at 120V. If permanent install, I would install a sight guage onto your kettle, and use capacitive or photoelectric sight guage switch. These run on DC voltage, so maybe a 24VDC solenoid and a wall wart for power. The solenoid would need be low current as these switches are solid state, so an interim relay would be needed, or get a piloted solenoid (which uses line pressure to aid in switching).

If analog, you will need controls and software. Easiest DIY would be a hydrostatic pressure sensor and an arduino. If temporary, mount the pressure sensor atop a stainless tube, and put that tube into the kette prior to filling. The pressure built in the tube as the fluid column rises will pressurize the sensor. If permanent, I would suggest the method shown in my build. For reading the sensor, you can use an arduino and find/write code to read the analog sensor, convert it to a relative fill height (easy math), set a trip point, then switch an output when the threshold is met... which powers the solenoid. There are also analog threshold sensors which will generate a binary output based on a set level, but I see no point in that.

My opinion? The first solution I noted. Get a float switch, mount on a bracket which slides up/down a rod or tube of SS or Aluminum. Hardwire it to a solenoid with fittings, call it done! Probably cost you less than $25.
 
I'm currently working on automating HLT/MLT filling using IFM SM6004 flow meters and GEMU diaphragm valves (but could do it with solenoids as well), with my existing Arduino being controlled by Node-Red/MQTT. Web app in Node-Red that I can select a Beersmith recipe file, it imports all of the relevant data for the batch of beer, then I hit go, and it'll auto fill kettles and start the brewing process.
 
Here is a nice little controller that I found for this purpose. Very easy to install and use.
There are many valves and meters to choose from. The SM6004 mentioned above by @mkosonen will work with it. I believe this company offers that same meter under a different part number. That's a nice meter because it also measures temperature.
https://www.flows.com/batching-systems/
No options for remote or automated starting though.

ABC-straight-on-300w.jpg
 
That could be very useful. Years ago I wanted something like that, but didn't find anything off the shelf that would work with the 4~5 GPH output of my 100GPD RO system. I also wanted it to automatically cycle the RO system daily to keep the membrane in good shape. I ended up building a controller using an Arduino Mega with SwissFlow SF800 meters that work reliably at the low flow rate, and a pair of solenoid valves.

The day before brewing I run a coiled 1/4" poly tubing to my rig's BK which is in turn coupled to my HLT, then program the controller to deliver the net strike plus the needed HLT water volume which fills both vessels nearly evenly. I can program a delay to the start but I've never found that actually useful. On brew day I heat the split volume to 150°F then shift any excess strike volume to the HLT before adding salts and acids to the two volumes separately, then heat the BK to strike temperature before underletting the mash.

1710941694619.jpeg


Otherwise, every night at 10PM it runs the RO system to produce a half gallon of product which is dumped along with the waste water...

Cheers!
 
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