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Automated/closed system HERMS layout

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Brilliant idea with the spring as a filter. Everything looks super clean, although I prefer welded fittings.
 
Very creative Elkoe. I never would have thought of using a spring that way. It should work well. However I already have a false bottom from Blichmann Engineering and probably will not change. I hope the spring is removable for cleaning, and my only concern would be if with handling it gets stretched in a section there might be some grain leaks to the pump. I still think it is very clever and should work well. I saw the unit in the BK also and just would be curious if it had been checked in a brew run with both pellet hops as well as whole leaf hops. Plug factors are always a concern.
Thank you again for your updates!!!
Mike
 
I imagine with it being stainless that it should hold its shape pretty well
 
I imagine with it being stainless that it should hold its shape pretty well

I think you are right wbarber69 and I love watching solutions from both sides of the pond, I just wish import/duty/shipping was cheaper for both directions!

Just waiting to see what Elkoe's solutions cost as my OSCSYS DX1 controllers section on temperature probes has died and I am looking at upgrade solutions. OSCSYS has stopped support and the bcs-462 controller will drive me to all new temperature probes (6 I think on my system), plus I will not buy new electric valves to support a replacement/upgrade controller (stupid cost).

Ah well hopefully I can brew again in January.....
Also I am extremely happy with Elkoe's BrewPi for my fermenters and am very confident that his product will be well thought out before release and am leaning towards that as my defacto decision, but news at 11 on release of specs. and product...
Mike
 
Elkoe, Just a quick query on your software design/implementation. My current system has 3 temperature probes used in the mash function I think works well and would like to know if you are going to implement this function, or something similar. I have one probe in the HLT for base water temperature, along with my Heat EXchanger (HEX) (50 feet of 1/2" stainless tubing), one long probe into the mid grain bed, and one in the return line from the HEX line in the HLT to the MLT. The way I understand its function is to average the temperature of your mash by controlling the temperature of the HLT water (no heater element in MLT). My old system seemed to be able to control my mash temperature to 1 degree F which worked really well. I have seen the SSRs throttling the power down to 10% (2 40 amp SSRs per element - 1 in HLT & 1 in BK) which surprised me as a control number.
Thanks again for your time and support.
Mike
 
I will add use 5 temp sensors in my setup, all flow sensors in a BSP tee.

- HLT in, HLT out
- Mash in (from coil), Mash out
- Boil out

I will also put 4 temp sensors on the CFC cooler, just because I am curious.

Because the sensors are OneWire, it is easy to add as many as you like. Making it easy to actually use them in software is the tricky part, but we will figure it out :)
 
I will add use 5 temp sensors in my setup, all flow sensors in a BSP tee.

- HLT in, HLT out
- Mash in (from coil), Mash out
- Boil out

I will also put 4 temp sensors on the CFC cooler, just because I am curious.

Because the sensors are OneWire, it is easy to add as many as you like. Making it easy to actually use them in software is the tricky part, but we will figure it out :)

Thank you very much for your valuable time! I know a lot of us are looking forward to your product release! Standing by.....
Mike
 
I will add use 5 temp sensors in my setup, all flow sensors in a BSP tee.

- HLT in, HLT out
- Mash in (from coil), Mash out
- Boil out

I will also put 4 temp sensors on the CFC cooler, just because I am curious.

Because the sensors are OneWire, it is easy to add as many as you like. Making it easy to actually use them in software is the tricky part, but we will figure it out :)

Did you mean "All temp sensors in a BSP tee" or did you actually mean flow?

Those one wire temp sensors are slick. I like them a lot for the brewpi. I would really try to make an easier calibration algorithm for them though. I keep meaning to calibrate my brewpi sensors... but then I never do because I don't feel like fussing with it.

Project is coming along for sure! I'm glad to hear the temps worked out well - that's a relief. The spring is a nice change of pace from the false bottoms. I don't really understand how it differs in function from a traditional perforated pipe manifold, however. Maybe I'm missing something.

I'm jealous of all the CNC work you do. That would be an awesome skill and tool to have access to.
 
I mean we designed a onewire temp sensor with 1/2 external bsp thread. Flow sensor are of later concern.

Calibration will become easier. I am half way of adding support in the web interface, but got distracted doing hardware.

I have a part time employee to design parts and CNC is outsourced. It is a huge cost upfront, but it is justified cause I intend to sell these parts later.
 
I think here in the USA we would use 1/2" NPT "T" stainless fittings and a 1/2" NPT to 1/4" compression fitting for the temperature probe. You take out the metal cone and use 2 - 1/4" O rings to seal the interface to the probe. This works on my current system and should work on Elkoe's new system, assuming he is using similar probes as his BrewPi system.
 
I think here in the USA we would use 1/2" NPT "T" stainless fittings and a 1/2" NPT to 1/4" compression fitting for the temperature probe. You take out the metal cone and use 2 - 1/4" O rings to seal the interface to the probe. This works on my current system and should work on Elkoe's new system, assuming he is using similar probes as his BrewPi system.

I am going to have NPT 1/2" probes made as well.

Here are a few quick photo's on dropbox of the build so far:
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/vf5oe893pj1t12v/AAA4zJA04VW6tJpseVigoYZfa
The entire brewery is 4m2.

I will post better photo's when I have added the tubing.

I have changed my diagram a bit:
HERMS-drawing-v2.png


  • Pumps can be primed via 'Hot tap water' and 'fermentor out' or 'drain' (hand valve 17, 16 or 15)
  • cold water and drain moved to the right, as that matches my setup.
  • Y-strainers (filters) to protect the pumps
  • Temp sensors on all kettle in and outputs

    • HLT IN: mainly to know the cold water temperature at the start
    • HLT OUT: to know HLT temp
    • MLT IN: temp after the HLT coil
    • MLT OUT: temp before the HLT coil, this will be the mash temp
    • BK IN: temp after CFC
    • BK OUT: temp before CFC (wort temp)


Feedback on the new diagram is very welcome, as I plan to start adding the tubing soon.
 
The diagram looks good. On first glance, it does look like you have more valves than you need, but if you have them it doesn't hurt. An example is valve 5 and 11... both could stop flow on that leg. 3-8 may be able to be reduced too. Here's how mine is setup. I have a few more manual operations though. Valves 1-6 and the adjacent manual valves are all part of one manifold.
http://1drv.ms/1yWET15

I saw you were using 5 wire valve control. Will you be creating boards for controlling 3 wire boards or just proving generic positive or gnd control DC? Almost all of my valves require taking the control wire to ground to open it.

I'm excited about your project and it looks great and well thought out so far. The BrewPi fermentation control is awesome.
 
very nice diagram and modified version. I am building my new rig and really like the mod version - yet considering full-manual at this time (due to $$) with, i.e., larger display on the controller showing the flow diagram AND the valves with open/close indicator.

Speaking of flow and workflow: Are you planning on circulating the HLT water while heating?
There might be an option to merge valve 2 & 3 into a three-way-valve (T or L, ).
The same with valve 7? Seven seems to be a "selector" from where P2 gets its wort.

Might help to write "pseudo-workflow-code" step-by-step to make sure that valves and flow fit. I need to do this for mine!


Found on brewhardware.com . Threeway valves' types.
3WValveL-3T.jpg
 
BayerischBier, there is a pdf showing the config for various steps if you go to the BrewPi GitHub site.

I was planning on having more 3way valves myself, but I stuck with 2 way valves except for one instance to keep the most flexibility. All of mine are on switches though. I need to to build a small board to be able to control the ground leg from my Brewtroller. Having a manifold and not swapping hoses is nice, even if you don't go with motorized valves.
 
I would maybe put valve 14 on the other side of the CFC, that way you don't fill up the CFC with dirty water during cleaning that you just want to drain. But then again I guess it's not a big problem because the water will "choose" the easy way out the drain anyway and not go into the CFC, right? Depends on how easy the flow is out the drain side and how hard the pump is pushing on.
 
That's pretty slick! I wish I had access to a CNC (and the knowledge and skills to use it). I like the spring manifolds, looking forward to seeing how it turns out.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
I would maybe put valve 14 on the other side of the CFC, that way you don't fill up the CFC with dirty water during cleaning that you just want to drain. But then again I guess it's not a big problem because the water will "choose" the easy way out the drain anyway and not go into the CFC, right? Depends on how easy the flow is out the drain side and how hard the pump is pushing on.

I consider the water side of the CFC dirty, so I don't want my beer lines to come into contact with it. When I put the valve on the other side, the water input to the HLT is in contact with this dirty side.

I could put a check valve in front of the CFC, but since the water side will never come into contact with the beer, I don't think it is worth it.

Like the idea with the springs filtration, where did you buy them?

I got them from the inventor, Mattmill. They are custom made for him in Germany. I will start selling them as a Matmill/BrewPi collaboration.
 
The diagram looks good. On first glance, it does look like you have more valves than you need, but if you have them it doesn't hurt. An example is valve 5 and 11... both could stop flow on that leg. 3-8 may be able to be reduced too. Here's how mine is setup. I have a few more manual operations though. Valves 1-6 and the adjacent manual valves are all part of one manifold.
http://1drv.ms/1yWET15

I saw you were using 5 wire valve control. Will you be creating boards for controlling 3 wire boards or just proving generic positive or gnd control DC? Almost all of my valves require taking the control wire to ground to open it.

I'm excited about your project and it looks great and well thought out so far. The BrewPi fermentation control is awesome.


I picked 5 wire valves for the feedback they provide and the option to leave them half open. Our controller board will be able to control 3 wire valves as well.

Regarding the multiple valves in one leg:
I put manual valves on all kettle in/outs and on all in/outs of the system as a whole, mainly as a backup. The valves on the kettles are left open during the entire brew day.

The leg that has 2 automated valves (5-11) has a lot of volume, about 2 liters. With a valve on just one leg, I think it will cause problems.
 
3 wire capability is good as I do not plan on replacing my valves, 7, 6 2 way and 1 3 way. I think mine are 12VDC items, specifics I am not sure of. Purchased from OSCSYS.
Elcoe, thanks for all of your efforts in supporting the home brew nerds ;-).
Mike
 
I was thinking yesterday the same thing - Do I need to change that letter to Santa?

Well he did say before Christmas which is ~16 more days. However I would rather have Elkoe put out a solid product with minimal/no bugs rather than meeting a deadline with buggy product.
Elkoe, yes I am anxious but will wait until you are ready to release to us. Have a wonderful Christmas holiday!
 
The boards are in production.
Production of the enclosures will start on Monday.

The controllers will definitely be ready before Christmas, hopefully within a week :ban:

I had to change manufacturer on both the enclosure and the stainless parts, so the stainless parts are delayed a bit. Hopefully still ready around Christmas.

The software still needs a lot of work. We are going to port the current BrewPi software to the new controller. This will be ready before Christmas.

We will also start with a new software stack from scratch, which will take a bit more time. This is needed to make it easier to add as many temp sensors as you want, assign controllers to those and to make charts of all of them.

Here are 2 pics of the last prototype for the controller:

2014-12-12-17.15.17-1024x768.jpg


2014-12-12-17.15.25-1024x768.jpg


You can expect a blog post to announce it next week.
 
Eagerly looking forward to your solutions to these common challenges in brewery integration Elco :) Would be wonderful to see automated hoppers for hops.
 
That's easy. A drill motor with a long auger not and an appropriately sized piece of pipe to accommodate the auger. Set it on slow and plug it into a timer.
 
I would go for servo's to tip some small containers.

But automating hop additions is behind volume sensing and pump speed control on my todo list.
 
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