attenuation help needed.

[6midgets]

Any advice that could be given would be greatly appreciated. I started brewing back in 2011 while I was in college. I brewed casually for 3 years (extract only) till I started a career and life happened. I’ve started back brewing heavy in the last year. I’ve brewed two 5 gallon batches a month since July. I really like fresh IPA's so that's what I've been brewing the most of. I cannot get a beer to attenuate lower than 1.015. I’ve searched the forums about this issue and done many things I’ve found in threads on here. I first built a fermentation chamber to control my temps. I then bought an erlenmeyer flask and a stir plate to make big healthy yeast starters. I’ve used many different low attenuating yeast strains I read about. I bought a pure O2 rig to oxygenate my wort. I use Fermax yeast nutrient in every batch. No matter what I do my beers come out sweet. What should I try next? Am I doing something wrong?

 

[SanPancho]

mash temp is too high or its recipe based, i.e. malt selection. those are the two most obvious solutions.

other than that we'd need to know more about your process. say a recent recipe, brew day records (if you have them) and OG/FG measurements.

 

[Pkrd]

Are you using extract or all grain?

 

[6midgets]

I'm using BIAB

 

[ba-brewer]

I’ve used many different low attenuating yeast strains I read about.

I hope you mean high attenuating. If you want your beer drier you want a high attenuation number. Which ones have you tried so far?

Adding sugar to your recipes will help dry your beer out.

What is your starting gravity, what kind of attenuation are you getting and what is your projected IBUs?

 

[6midgets]

I hope you mean high attenuating. If you want your beer drier you want a high attenuation number. Which ones have you tried so far?

Adding sugar to your recipes will help dry your beer out.

What is your starting gravity, what kind of attenuation are you getting and what is your projected IBUs?

so far I've used S-04, US-05, Imperial Barbarian, wyeast 1318, mangrove jacks liberty bell ale and west coast ale, and WLP007. the last IIPA I brewed was 95 IBU. s.g. 1.070 f.g. 1.015. that was the highest attenuation I've had to date

 

[dmtaylor]

Mash low around 148 F for 90 minutes or longer. That'll fix it.

 

[6midgets]

mash temp is too high or its recipe based, i.e. malt selection. those are the two most obvious solutions.

other than that we'd need to know more about your process. say a recent recipe, brew day records (if you have them) and OG/FG measurements.

you may be right. The last beer I brewed had
10lb 2-row
1lb honey malt
10oz. special b
1lb golden naked oats
mashed @153 for 60mins
O.G. 1.070
F.G. 1.015
I pitched Imperial Barbarian for 7 days till airlock activity stopped checked my gravity 1.025 then I pitched a pack of mangrove jack liberty bell ale yeast waited 7 days checked gravity 1.015.
kegged it.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

you may be right. The last beer I brewed had
10lb 2-row
1lb honey malt
10oz. special b
1lb golden naked oats
mashed @153 for 60mins
O.G. 1.070
F.G. 1.015
I pitched Imperial Barbarian for 7 days till airlock activity stopped checked my gravity 1.025 then I pitched a pack of mangrove jack liberty bell ale yeast waited 7 days checked gravity 1.015.
kegged it.

Yep. That definitely sounds like a sweet one! Try 149-ish and shoot for an FG closer to 1.010-1.012. Both the honey malt and the special b are going to really kick up the sweet and malty.

 

[thehaze]

Next time, brew the same beer by mashing at 148-149F for 75-90 minutes ( a more fermentable wort ), use a bit of sugar to dry it out ( maybe 5-10% ) and drop the honey malt and special B.

Just keep the 2-row and GNO, which are great in hoppy beers, but do not use more than say 5-6%.

 

[ba-brewer]

You have a pretty good amount of crystal type malts maybe think about cutting that back some too.

Did you make a starter with the barbarian yeast?

Have not used that yeast but if you start bumping the temp after day two or three when you see the airlock activity starting to slow up that can help the yeast attenuate better.

I use s-05, WLP090 and WLP007 and routinely get better than 80% attenuation. Repitching the yeast helps too, sometime the first use is not as good as the repitches.

 

[6midgets]

Yep. That definitely sounds like a sweet one! Try 149-ish and shoot for an FG closer to 1.010-1.012. Both the honey malt and the special b are going to really kick up the sweet and malty.

mash temp is something I have overlooked. I will try this on Friday. Thanks.

 

[6midgets]

Next time, brew the same beer by mashing at 148-149F for 75-90 minutes ( a more fermentable wort ), use a bit of sugar to dry it out ( maybe 5-10% ) and drop the honey malt and special B.

Just keep the 2-row and GNO, which are great in hoppy beers, but do not use more than say 5-6%.

thanks i'll try that this weekend

 

[6midgets]

You have a pretty good amount of crystal type malts maybe think about cutting that back some too.

Did you make a starter with the barbarian yeast?

Have not used that yeast but if you start bumping the temp after day two or three when you see the airlock activity starting to slow up that can help the yeast attenuate better.

I use s-05, WLP090 and WLP007 and routinely get better than 80% attenuation. Repitching the yeast helps too, sometime the first use is not as good as the repitches.

Imperial claims that they have 2 billion cells per pack and that no starter is needed. I've been bumping the temp up once the airlock activity stops. is that too late?

 

[ba-brewer]

They may start off at 200 billion cells but will drop with time, also you needed about 250 billions for 1070.

Start bumping the temp after a couples days of active fermentation to make sure they don't start slowing down. CO2 takes a while to get out of solution so if you wait for activity to stop the yeast was done a few days before that.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I have made a beer that under-attenuated, but the majority of beers I make are over-attenuated. If your beer drops to 1.015 in seven days, you might want to let it sit for another couple weeks. You may may find the yeast will grind out another 4 or 5 points. Also, if you are starting at 1.070, 1.015 seems like a reasonable FG. The one beer I made that under-attenuated I think was due to a short mash and too high of a PH in the mash.

 

[ESBrewer]

Yes, mash temp (and time) will be effective. And you can gradually increase fermentation temperature when you reach half gravity 1.010+((1.070-1.010)/2) = 1.040. No need to measure that exactly but in the halfway.

 

[yeahfairly]

Have you ever used the recipe builder on "Brewer's Friend"? If you input your grain bill, Hop additions, mash profile and yeast it will give you a really good indication on where your beer will end up. From what I can tell from your grain bill and mash temp your beer ended up where it should have.....

Try This: https://www.brewersfriend.com/

 

[ba-brewer]

1015 is really not that high of a finished gravity if you have 95IBUs. How much of those IBUs come from post boil hop additions? I use beersmith and they add IBUs for steeping/whirlpool additions but I don't think they actually add the bitterness they say so I make my steep/whirpool additions 0min boil in beersmith.

Also what are you doing for water are you adding salts to your brew water? If you are not already doing it maybe add some gypsum to enhance the hop perception.

Also try to get fresh hops and keep them cold or frozen to get the alpha acid advertised on the package.

 

[6midgets]

I have made a beer that under-attenuated, but the majority of beers I make are over-attenuated. If your beer drops to 1.015 in seven days, you might want to let it sit for another couple weeks. You may may find the yeast will grind out another 4 or 5 points. Also, if you are starting at 1.070, 1.015 seems like a reasonable FG. The one beer I made that under-attenuated I think was due to a short mash and too high of a PH in the mash.

with any other beer styles I will try that, however I'm brewing IPA's and NEIPA's and the fresher they are the better. I'm trying to get around 1.010 in 10 days.

 

[6midgets]

Have you ever used the recipe builder on "Brewer's Friend"? If you input your grain bill, Hop additions, mash profile and yeast it will give you a really good indication on where your beer will end up. From what I can tell from your grain bill and mash temp your beer ended up where it should have.....

Try This: https://www.brewersfriend.com/

I use BeerSmith 2

 

[6midgets]

1015 is really not that high of a finished gravity if you have 95IBUs. How much of those IBUs come from post boil hop additions? I use beersmith and they add IBUs for steeping/whirlpool additions but I don't think they actually add the bitterness they say so I make my steep/whirpool additions 0min boil in beersmith.

Also what are you doing for water are you adding salts to your brew water? If you are not already doing it maybe add some gypsum to enhance the hop perception.

Also try to get fresh hops and keep them cold or frozen to get the alpha acid advertised on the package.

I use beersmith as well. 70ish IBU's from the boil. I just got some salts my next batch will be my first playing with water. I order all my hops from Yakima Valley Hops and store them in my freezer till I use them

 

[ba-brewer]

Seem like you are doing the things right with your hops, but I would double check things anyway to make sure you are really getting 70IBU which should be enough to offset the sweetness. It could be possible you are more sensitive to sweetness then I am. Personally I like a slightly higher gravity for the added body and mouthfeel.

I have not brewed a NEIPA proper, but the folks in this thread would be able to help you for sure. I see a post for someone that went from 1057 to 1010 with S05 yeasts so trying to go from 1070 to 1010 maybe asking too much without adding sugar and very attenuative yeast.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/page-139#post-8172761

 

[Bryggeri]

That is a lot of honey malt in my opinion. I use 1lb in 15 gallon batches and it was too sweet. 007 is my go too yeast, 152 mash I can barely keep it above 1.007, but I do ferment for closer to 2 weeks, letting it rise after 4-5 days.

 

[6midgets]

That is a lot of honey malt in my opinion. I use 1lb in 15 gallon batches and it was too sweet. 007 is my go too yeast, 152 mash I can barely keep it above 1.007, but I do ferment for closer to 2 weeks, letting it rise after 4-5 days.

the next batch I make I'm taking honey malt out all together.

 

[brewshki]

I will also chime in that 1.015 with beers that big is pretty darn good. nothing else to add in terms of techniques though, everyone has hit on it.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I get what you are saying. You have to try Nottingham. As I mentioned, I like to bulk age my beers a little. With Nottingham I get a little pissy about how fast fermentation is complete. It pleases me to see a slow bubble every 5 minutes, but Notty just cuts to the chase.

 

[balrog]

one more note is that if you data log your temps, or how often your ferm chamber cooling cycles, you can easily see where the exotherm is to determine when you'd want to raise temps, the exotherm being when the majority of sugar to alcohol/CO2 is happening.

 

[6midgets]

one more note is that if you data log your temps, or how often your ferm chamber cooling cycles, you can easily see where the exotherm is to determine when you'd want to raise temps, the exotherm being when the majority of sugar to alcohol/CO2 is happening.

if that's what it takes then i'll try that but im gonna try this eaiser stuff first.

 

[balrog]

if that's what it takes then i'll try that but im gonna try this eaiser stuff first.

Oh, it’s all the rage with Gen* crowd; everyone is doing it. Like wearing masks.

 

[eric19312]

one more note is that if you data log your temps, or how often your ferm chamber cooling cycles, you can easily see where the exotherm is to determine when you'd want to raise temps, the exotherm being when the majority of sugar to alcohol/CO2 is happening.

I’m curious about how you would use this information. I’ve been logging temps... what do I do with the information?

 

[balrog]

I have the Brewpi system using a laptop, and view the graph thereon where beer temp, fridge temp, and room temp are probes being logged. When the fridge temp starts cycling faster, and going lower, to keep the beer temp stable, I know that there's heat generated. Looks like zeeees! (Grey line=room, green line=beer, blue line=chamber)

 

[eric19312]

I have the Brewpi system using a laptop, and view the graph thereon where beer temp, fridge temp, and room temp are probes being logged. When the fridge temp starts cycling faster, and going lower, to keep the beer temp stable, I know that there's heat generated. Looks like zeeees! (Grey line=room, green line=beer, blue line=chamber)
View attachment 550527

Ok cool

What in that graph told you to start ramping temps when you did?

 

[balrog]

Yeah, about that...I did not ramp until after I saw the exotherm finish due to stuff/things/Life happening. I do normally wait until I see the exotherm finish then ramp, but I try to ramp as soon as it's coming out of that.

 

[6midgets]

I wanted to thank everyone that contributed to this thread. I tried some of your suggestions and I’m happy to report a beer with a F.G. Of 1.010. I brewed a NEIPA using
8lbs of 2-row
1lbs of flaked oats
1lbs of flaked wheat
Mashed at 149 for 60 minuets
Had a starting gravity of 1.045
Pitched one pack of US-05
Fermented at 66 degrees stepping up one degree a day till reaching 72 degrees
Finished with a gravity of 1.010. I checked the gravity with two different hydrometers the other one read 1.008

 

[eric19312]

I wanted to thank everyone that contributed to this thread. I tried some of your suggestions and I’m happy to report a beer with a F.G. Of 1.010. I brewed a NEIPA using
8lbs of 2-row
1lbs of flaked oats
1lbs of flaked wheat
Mashed at 149 for 60 minuets
Had a starting gravity of 1.045
Pitched one pack of US-05
Fermented at 66 degrees stepping up one degree a day till reaching 72 degrees
Finished with a gravity of 1.010. I checked the gravity with two different hydrometers the other one read 1.008

Sounds tasty. 1.010 is a nice target.

 

[ESBrewer]

Everything seems to be working now. You can build some complexity on that recipe if you like. You could also calibrate the hydrometers (and thermometers). Check with plain water if they both read 0.000 at calibration temperature and may even draw a calibration curve using some standard sugar solutions. Check that thermometer gives expected results in water stabilized with lots of ice. And in boiling water as well. Just to be sure and to see which hydrometer has an error. And notice that temperature will affect the gravity so it should be measured at the calibration temp of the hydrometer or corrected by some calculations/calculators.

 

[6midgets]

Thanks for the help. This is what I made