Attempting 40%+ ABV beer... "Barley Brandy"

[motobrewer]

just admit it, you don't wanna use amylase because you're afraid it will work.

 

[bluemoose]

Saw this guide while searching Keller's site. Not sure if you tried some of the high end yeasts.

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/strains.asp

Maybe try Premier Curvee or Lav 43?

 

[NJstout]

Yeah, that was suggested... and it's a good idea... at the same time though, if it doesn't work, I am completely out of ideas anyway and am gonna have to have someone dump it for me as I won't be able to bring myself to do it.

I was thinking about trying to freeze concentrate a portion of it anyway, just for giggles but I'm not sure I want to go through the hassle with that either if it isn't going to dry out a bit more.

you could always water it down to a 10g batch or 12%abv to make it less sweet instead of dumping it

 

[mikelikesit2000]

Have you thought about splitting it into smaller batches, using like a wine or champagne yeast to dry out a small portion then kill the yeast and mix it back to the original to your desired taste?

 

[Homebrewtastic]

Yeah, that was suggested... and it's a good idea... at the same time though, if it doesn't work, I am completely out of ideas anyway and am gonna have to have someone dump it for me as I won't be able to bring myself to do it.

I was thinking about trying to freeze concentrate a portion of it anyway, just for giggles but I'm not sure I want to go through the hassle with that either if it isn't going to dry out a bit more.

Did you try making an actively fermenting starter with the super high gravity yeast? Aerating the beer adding some yeast nutrients, and then add that to it?

The reason just pitching more yeast doesn't work is because there's no more oxygen, there's no more nutrients, so it just won't take off.

Also did you try adding a tablespoon of boiled bread yeast to it? It absorbs the toxins produced by the yeast in a high stress environment.

When I did my Utopias clone I got it down to 1.022 by doing the above mentioned things.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Yup, yup, yes, yes, yup, yes

Tried all of it.

 

[bluemoose]

Did you try peeing in it?

 

[motobrewer]

Yup, yup, yes, yes, yup, yes

Tried all of it.

except, of course, the most obvious solution.

 

[smokinghole]

I think if there is another attempt at this you should go about it a different way. I believe the osmotic stress on the yeast is so great that it will not work at the level of alcohol combined with the osmotic stress. So along the lines of DFH and the 120min IPA you could do a 40% barley brandy much the same way. Instead of dextrose you can use malt extract that get dissolved into the beer or a malt syrup from a boiled down recipe of your own. So you could go with say a 5gal batch of something at 1.120 and then boil a 10 gal 1.120 batch down to 1.240. That will give you an average blended gravity of around 1.180 and if fermented down to 1.030 that gives you just over 20%abv. So you could incrementally feed the unfermented 1.240 beer or a beer boiled down even further to the fermenting beer each day to keep the fermentation going with WLP099. Theoretically it should work. This will reduce the osmotic shock on the yeast and should introduce a little O2 each time you add the new serving wort. This will give you 10gal of 20% beer which should reduce down nicely through freeze concentration.

I'm just thinking out loud here. I don't know if that's realistic or not. I am thinking about doing it though but I don't see it happening. The other thing that could possibly help could be doing this in a conical and using the racking arm to inject CO2 or O2 to keep the yeast in suspension.

 

[Cape Brewing]

except, of course, the most obvious solution.

It's in my bag right now.. so shut the hell up.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Smoking... that's almost exactly what I did.

 

[Aunt_Ester]

How would distiller's yeast fair in this equation?

 

[Cape Brewing]

Not very well... I tried it

 

[iaefebs]

Cape, I want to thank you for following up on this attempt at doing a 40%. It sounds like you have done what you can. If Dogfish head can dump a 120 on TV then a homebrewer can dump one on HBT, Thanks again for all the information I got from your experiment.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Well... Not dumping it yet.

I am finally going to break down and go the beano route. We'll see if it works. It is the last resort. On one hand, I want it to work for obvious reasons. On the other hand, it would mean Moto had one thought that wasn't ridiculous and I would to admit as much... And I would not enjoy that.

 

[jeepinjeepin]

But when you factor in your time and expense being wrong once wouldn't be so bad if it worked.

 

[bottlebomber]

So are you thinking that when you add the Beano the yeast that's been pissed off at you for the last 3 months is going to suddenly spring into action?

 

[Cape Brewing]

But when you factor in your time and expense being wrong once wouldn't be so bad if it worked.

You're theory is solid.. But... I have to weigh the effort, expense, and then having the beer against my dislike of Moto and even more disliking having to admit he was right about one small thing.

Its a tough call

 

[Cape Brewing]

So are you thinking that when you add the Beano the yeast that's been pissed off at you for the last 3 months is going to suddenly spring into action?

No, I am gonna try beano and then one last shot of nutrients, O2 and fresh distillers turbo yeast.

... and I'm torn up over whether I want it to work.

 

[bob1852]

No, I am gonna try beano and then one last shot of nutrients, O2 and fresh distillers turbo yeast.

... and I'm torn up over whether I want it to work.

Admit it, you want it to fail just so you don't have to say that moto was right.

 

[motobrewer]

You're theory is solid.. But... I have to weigh the effort, expense, and then having the beer against my dislike of Moto and even more disliking having to admit he was right about one small thing.

Its a tough call

No, I am gonna try beano and then one last shot of nutrients, O2 and fresh distillers turbo yeast.

... and I'm torn up over whether I want it to work.

you know you love it

 

[LVBen]

Cape Brewing, I've been reading bits here and there of this thread, and I'm not going to go back and read the whole thing, but are you totally against eisbocking it?

I was thinking that you could thin the beer out with distilled water, then re-activate the yeast or add more yeast in order to make it a more habitable environment for the yeast, and then after the fermentation completes, you could eisbock the beer to remove all of that extra water.

 

[the_bird]

... go back and read the very first post. The whole plan was to make a Utopias clone, and then "eisbock" THAT.

 

[motobrewer]

cape's had this, uh, "problem", for awhile. i think he understands his options.

his main problem is that he really likes it right now. and doesn't want to f*ck with that.

 

[LVBen]

... go back and read the very first post. The whole plan was to make a Utopias clone, and then "eisbock" THAT.

Ok, so the problem now isn't that the abv is slightly too low. The problem is that there is too much residual sugar, right?

So, I would think he could totally thin it out, ferment more of the sugar out, and then eisbock until it is no longer eisbockable (is that a word?).

 

[funkapottomous]

okay.

I'll bite. (also not going to read through 54 pages)

how exactly do you Eisbock a beer like that? I get that it's basically freeze distillation, but how to you pull the water out once it's frozen? Does freeze on bottom and you just pour the alcohol out?

also posting so I've got it subbed.

 

[motobrewer]

there are a few ways of freeze distillation

one is to rack it to corney keg and start to freeze it. the water will freeze on the sides like a jacket. then, when it's where you want it, start transferring out the remaining beer.

 

[funkapottomous]

there are a few ways of freeze distillation

one is to rack it to corney keg and start to freeze it. the water will freeze on the sides like a jacket. then, when it's where you want it, start transferring out the remaining beer.

yeah I googled it after posting that.

So you're doing like a partial freeze (waiting for the roachwings like you do with mexican beer) and then pulling from the middle.

sounds easy enough if you have a kegging setup and a freezer available.

 

[iaefebs]

Cape, I have 4 bottles of beano that I bought at an auction, I would be happy to send you one. That way you could say "I got this **** for free and tried it " Not because someone suggested it.

 

[jeepinjeepin]

okay.

I'll bite. (also not going to read through 54 pages)

how exactly do you Eisbock a beer like that? I get that it's basically freeze distillation, but how to you pull the water out once it's frozen? Does freeze on bottom and you just pour the alcohol out?

also posting so I've got it subbed.

Go back an issue or two in BYO and they show the process for ice cider.