Attempting 40%+ ABV beer... "Barley Brandy"

[Tinga]

Seems like if you freeze the beer in a corny keg, the slushy bits all ought to be float at the top. Hit it with some CO2 and transfer the remaining liquid (the dip tube's at the bottom, after all) to a fresh, clean, sanitized keg. I know you're not paranoid about adding a little O2, but seems like that would help you minimize any oxidation. Using anything like a slotted spoon or whatever to remove the ice, seems likely you'd aerate the **** out of it.

Actually, why not do a practice eisbier run on something else first? Make a pale-ale eis or something, get the process down before ****ing around with the real deal. You know how dumb it is to try something brand new and completely unproven on a beer like the Utopias.

I don't know what I think about freezing beer in a metal corny I would intend to use again. Expansion might warp the corny making it unusable. The slightest warp in the wrong place could cause poor seals.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Agreed whole-heartedly Bird.

I dont know though... I don't see how racking the "beer" to a sanitizes pot and then freezing the pot, and then gently scooping out the ice with a cheese cloth covered slotted spoon wouldn't work.

What am I gonna do?? Infect it? At 40%+ ABV?

 

[the_bird]

Well, you're going to need to baby the freezing process, you can't let it get to the point of it being frozen solid or it's not going to work anyway. You also can't have the cornie completely full. The ice will take up a little more volume, but that'll just add a little pressure, it should be OK.

Worst-case, you **** up a cornie. The grain bill's more spendy than a new cornie, and it's better than ****ing up a glass carboy!

 

[Cape Brewing]

Thats why I am thinking a pot instead of a corny. i think it'll be a ton easier to work with.

 

[the_bird]

Agreed whole-heartedly Bird.

I dont know though... I don't see how racking the "beer" to a sanitizes pot and then freezing the pot, and then gently scooping out the ice with a cheese cloth covered slotted spoon wouldn't work.

What am I gonna do?? Infect it? At 40%+ ABV?

Corney keg's going to be easier, ain't it (assuming it works)? Put it in the freezer until it's slushy. Hook up the CO2 and a jumper tube, hit the gas and fill the second keg. If you want/need to repeat the process, toss the now-filled one in the freezer and clean out the ice that's left in the first one.

The only thing that's "hard" is checking the cornie while it's in the freezer, picking it up and listening to hear if it's slushy or not. You'd have to babysit the beer in the open stockpot anyway.

 

[Cape Brewing]

You're assuming I can fit a corny in my freezer.

 

[the_bird]

You've never invited me to your house; I assumed part of your bar setup included a keezer. That changes the equation.

 

[Cape Brewing]

No keezer.... Walk-in but that only gets down to about freezing at its coldest. I have a couple of fermentation fridges but same thing.... And none of the freezers on those would fit a corny.

Just got a new fridge for the kitchen and that one is pretty hard core. I can fit a large pot in that freezer and that goes down to -6.

Then... I like the dry ice idea. Maybe go the freezer route and then move it to a cooler full of dry ice to bring it down further

 

[bwomp313]

Massachusetts must be a very dark place indeed if you guys have to keep making stronger and stronger beers...

 

[TheDudeLebowski]

I smell death pool. Who wants in?

 

[StrikeThree]

Id freeze with liquid nitrogen. But wear gloves. BTW, Im a displaced Beantowner, I miss the sox but not the shoveling.

Good luck, Im subscribed!

 

[scottland]

I also think some dry ice in a cooler will be the way to go. You can use a couple liters of cheap vodka as a heat transfer media between the dry ice and your pot.

This should be interesting.

 

[bovineblitz]

I'm pretty sure you'll def need to use the dry ice to get down to the temps you need to freeze the beer. Sounds like an awesome project.

 

[motobrewer]

this. will. fail.

moto has spoken.

 

[motobrewer]

wait, doesn't it get cold in asston?

the one time my uncle made an eisbock, he put the corney outside in the middle of January. only took and hour or so before he had a solid "ice jacket" on the inside walls of the corney. he then racked it to a second corney.

 

[RDWHAHB]

awe....cape wants to step out of PTN's shadow....how adorable! Just look at the little guy.
Jeff

 

[DakotaRules]

The thing about freezing a corny is that the dip tube will probably freeze solid so any chance of getting the liquid out of the bottom won't happen. I've seen how a corny splits at the seams from freezing too.

 

[bovineblitz]

The thing about freezing a corny is that the dip tube will probably freeze solid so any chance of getting the liquid out of the bottom won't happen. I've seen how a corny splits at the seams from freezing too.

Well the idea is to just let it partially freeze, not to let it freeze solid

 

[motobrewer]

yeah, i'm pretty sure that is somewhat common practice, and he didn't make it up.

obviously you'll have to pay attention to it. not sure if cape has the necessary attention span.

 

[Denny330]

Vodka will definitely freeze at dry ice temps. You will need to use acetone. It will say in liquid form at dry ice temps. Look up drew beechum's champagne beer specifically how he froze the neck to get the yeast out. A few seconds in dry ice will freeze it solid.

For the hatred of all things New England, be careful.

 

[annasdadhockey]

Subscribed. I'd like to see this work

 

[Cape Brewing]

I predict epic winning.

 

[bob1852]

I predict epic winning.

I concur with epic. Jury is still out on winning.

 

[iaefebs]

I smell death pool. Who wants in?

If the death is the death of this thread I want in.

 

[KYB]

Hmm, seems to be some controversy in this thread. Shall we make it interesting and do an epic beer showdown? Here I'll start:

My Epic Stout > your wimpy Utopeisbier (tm?).

 

[2wide]

This is way out of my league. But seems like the best way to avoid malted syrup after freezing is to make the overall percentage of adjunct sugars high.

 

[Cape Brewing]

This is way out of my league. But seems like the best way to avoid malted syrup after freezing is to make the overall percentage of adjunct sugars high.

I have had the same thought and alluded to that earler about getting the monstrosity to really dry out. I would love to know if BrewDog went this route. I would also be really interested if any of Brewdog's really big beers (Bismark and History) are actually drinkable. I don't know if they were simply shooting for ABV or ABV with something that was actually drinkable... Those are two very different things.

I would like to do this because I think the simple experimentation and learnig process would be worth the effort... but... I really WOULD like to be able to enjoy it when it is done.

I'm torn on this "syrupy" issue. Part of me thinks simply taking 50% of the water out HAS to make it, basically, thicker. Another part if me think since you'll be making the alchohol as a percentage of volume so much higher, it would offset that and keep it "thin".

We'll see. I think it'll be interestng nonetheless.

Brewing the IIIPA starter tomorrow and I already have everything to do my first U batch

 

[Cape Brewing]

Jury is still out on winning.

Your argument is valid

 

[jeepinjeepin]

SG of alcohol is 0.787. Having 40% of that should thin your syrup out pretty well.

How thick do you anticipate it to freeze down to? I just did a mini experiment. I heated an asston of sugar in not so much water on the stove, chilled it, and added water until my hydrometer would almost sink. Estimated gravity of 1.130 to 1.140 as my hydrometer measures up to 1.120 and I didn't feel like adding more water. We are going for extremes right? I measured out 1.6oz of 75.5% alcohol and topped up to 4oz with the sugar solution. This measured at 1.040. I added almost another ounce of the 75.5% alcohol to bring the total alcohol up to around 40% which brought the gravity of the solution down to around 1.010.

I think you are going to be fine.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Awesome, thanks for the experiment! I figured that would be the case but didn't have any evidence other than my gut.

I was doing it either way but this is really helpful. Thanks again