At home breathalyzer....?

[mordantly]

We use the Alco Sensor IV in California and get very accurate results but a good DUI Cop or Duece Hound do not need a Preliminary Alcohol Screening Device (PAS) to effect an arrest. All I need is my trusty little finger and a few seconds to watch your eyes and I can tell you exactly what you blood alcohol content is. We have a saying, "The eyes don't lie."

To those of you wondering about the 2 DUI sections that most states try for, one pertains to driving under the influence - this can be under the influence of anything and is the lesser offense but other sections can be involved depending on what was used (I.E. narcotics, marijuana). The other and more sought after offense by the D.A. would be- driving under the influence with a blood alcohol content of .08% or more. Here in California the Sections are 23152 (a) V.C. and 23152 (b) V.C. Subsection (b) being the one we try and get.

The avg. drink will give a person a reading of .02%. This is fairly accurate but needs to be adjusted for tolerance, weight and food but is a good mark to go by. Alcohol will actually burn off in the body as well at an avg. rate of .01%-.02% per hour.

what is this poppycock? do you know how many times ive had to take the eyeball jitter? delta9-thc, alcohol, psylicybins never fail to pass. but anytime between 1100 and 0600 i take them and a little bit tired, i get the "pleasure" of a non-certified PAS. the only two times it reported anything, one was .16 and 15 minutes later on a certified machine .08, and the other reported .25 and 25 minutes later blood indicated .19. you can't tell schitt man, unless you have tested a million people on a pas, certified machine, and blood, then i'll believe that.

 

[Rhys]

Had a chance a year or so ago to take part in what was called a wet lab. The local PD was putting on a training for the officers in the area. A group of us were given different amounts to drink, blew the PBT and then would rotate through a couple groups of officers to do the FST's, and finaly did the PBT again. The only one of the FST's that I couldn't pass was horizontal gaze nystagmus. I originaly had a PBT of .11 and finished about a half hour later with .13. At the time out limit was .10. It was a good thing to do in that It showed me just what that level of intoxication felt like.

 

[mordantly]

its soooooo easy to hide .1+ if you have not drunk any alcohol in the last hour so resperation exhaust is minimal.

 

[Soybomb]

its soooooo easy to hide .1+ if you have not drunk any alcohol in the last hour so resperation exhaust is minimal.

How exactly do you propose it is hidden? Do you have conscious control over how much alcohol evaporates into your breath? I have yet to develop that sort of control over my alveloli but I'd love to learn it.

 

[mordantly]

smell is the primary alerter to innebriation. when you can function: walk, talk, count, etc, its only suspicion if they don't have a PAS. which here only pd's do not the chp or sheriffs.

 

[carp]

I bought an alcohawk (sp?) many years ago, but it quite working after a year or so. What I observed about the affect of various levels of BAC is that a certain level, say 0.08, represents quite a strong pleasant buzz 'on the way up'. You know how that initial buzz after 2 beers is so great. But if you keep drinking, even slow enough to maintain 0.08, that same BAC level feels like less. I figure a decent multi-hour party (at home of course) involves maintaining a good steady .12 - .15 .

 

[mordantly]

here here!

 

[Soybomb]

I would toss the question to any LEO's on the board then, is smell your indicator on the majority of your dui arrests? My guess would be driving behavior is the number one sign but it'd be neat to hear.

And then past that, how often do you pull someone over for reasons unrelated to irregular driving and wind up giving out dui/dwi?

 

[Brewpatrol]

I would toss the question to any LEO's on the board then, is smell your indicator on the majority of your dui arrests? My guess would be driving behavior is the number one sign but it'd be neat to hear.

And then past that, how often do you pull someone over for reasons unrelated to irregular driving and wind up giving out dui/dwi?

Smell is hardly ever the indicator. Its always the driving. When working graveyard the primary goal is to seek out and aprehend DUI drivers before they kill someone or themselves. I've been to many of those accident scenes and would never wish that upon anyone. It wasn't something I ever really thought I would have to deal with until I responded to my first one. Its horrific and can't be described in words. John Q Public will never know what its like to walk in my shoes or see what I see but I signed up for it and take that responsibility. It was my choice. Same thing can be said for those who serve our country and protect the freedoms we have here in America.

I have stopped thousands of drivers and many of them have been arrested for DUI although it may not have been the reason why I stopped them. They may not have driven in the manner that one would expect a DUI driver i.e. weaving within the lane but may have been speeding, unsafe lane changing or running stop signs. We tend to forget that traffic violations are indicators of DUI due to the driver's innebriation. Alcohol slows the bodies motor skills and sense of judgement making something such as a simple stop sign hard to see or stop in time for.

After contact is where it really becomes easy for those of us who trained for it. Smell does play a factor. Alcohol emmitts from ones person through more than just breath but also through pores and has a distinct odor. Eyes become red and glossy and speech thick and slurred. Its impossible for one to cover them up as they have no control of what the alcohol is doing to their system.

Someone above said that they participated ina DUI wet lab and "passed" all tests except the PAS. I'd like to let everyone in on a little secret here. All field sobriety tests are not weighted pass or fail. The Officer is simply looking for "tells" or indicators just like in poker. The PAS device is not even a standardized Field Sobriety Test. Its just another tool to help the officer and can actually be refused by the driver just like the others. It does not mean though that the driver will not be arrested. Here in California and in probably every other state, once the driver is arrested for DUI he/she "shall" submitt to a chemical test of his/her choice be it a blood test or breath test. The chemical breath test is not the same as the PAS and is explained to the driver. Most DUI drivers are so out if it they can't comprehend.

I hope this helps you guys, I would hate for any of you to be subject to a DUI arrest. They aren't fun and are costly. I would only hope that if you were/are arrested that you actually reflect and thank whomever because it means that you are alive and didn't kill yourself. You can even thank the officer for that.

 

[JJDMusic]

Fun Facts about state laws and alcohol.

Haha, check out number 24!

 

[FenoMeno]

I just bought one ( different model ) but also in the $50 type. I did several tests and found that you really need to wait ( as instructions say ) for 20 minutes before using to be at all consistent. I said "consistent" not accurate. prior to 20 mins no food/drink, it was +/- 0.02.

Another friend paid about $250 for hers and seemed to work better, ie consistent---I wouldn't trust for accurate. I asked a cop if I could compare results, but he said no. : ( I guess it gets you in the ball park. My thoughts are: If I have to use this device to see if I should drive....Hmmm and you probably get the quality you pay for....

 

[rico567]

I find #4 to be the odd one. Actually an instance of the growing extraterritoriality of U.S. law, whereby it's attempted to apply it to foreigners who commit acts against U.S. citizens or property abroad, or to control the behavior of U.S. citizens while on foreign soil. The concept is actually a vestige of the imperial / colonial era, where sections of foreign cities or countries would be marked off by treaty (forcible of course) and regarded as part of the colonial / imperial power. When we toured Shanghai a few months ago, on our tour around town we were shown the neighborhood where the various "treaty" areas of the foreign powers -Japanese, British, French, etc.- were located a century ago.

In the broader sense, it's all just a symptom of the general trend to pass more and more laws and statutes- control, control, control. All part of our rampant insecurity as a people.

"The worse the society, the more law there will be. In hell there will be nothing but law, and due process will be meticulously observed."

- Grant Gilmore

 

[Synovia]

# A server in California can be convicted of selling to a minor if the purchaser uses a false or altered ID to buy the alcohol. 14

Thats true in a lot more states than California.

 

[springer]

Fun Facts about state laws and alcohol.

Haha, check out number 24!

"24. In Houston, Texas, beer many not be purchased after midnight on Sunday, but can be purchased anytime on Monday...which happens to begin right after midnight on Sunday! So it's illegal to buy it when its legal to buy it?"

The person is a little confused by what 12 midnight Sunday is

Midnight Sunday is 12 am once you go from 11:59 pm Saturday to 12AM its Sunday so this is correct. My guess is that beer isn't sold on Sundays in Houston

 

[lustreking]

Haha, check out number 24!

I don't know, I read that as "Beer may not be purchased on Sunday." No?

Doh! I probably should have refreshed the page after coming back from lunch before I posted.

 

[JJDMusic]

Nice catch, I totaly missed that. You guys are right. I must of had one too many, or I am dumb.

 

[Stagnasty]

I hope this helps you guys, I would hate for any of you to be subject to a DUI arrest. They aren't fun and are costly. I would only hope that if you were/are arrested that you actually reflect and thank whomever because it means that you are alive and didn't kill yourself. You can even thank the officer for that.

Are you serious???? You really think someone should THANK you for arresting them with a DUI???? You MUST be a cop.

In NC if you blow, just below the limit, they will take you to jail and make your wait about 45 mins and then blow you again,,, The assumption is that if you are at the limit, you problly have another beer in ya,,, so they bust you for "sitting in the police station with a beer in your belly" not for driving over the limit. Not only is this an improper serach and seizure, its a clear indication of how the troopers are just interested in getting DUI's under their belt (in NC every dui bust is compensated with comp time towards retirement).

Pardon me if I don't thank you for your ideas on DUI

Least you think I'm too bitter, I got my first DL in 1968 and have never had a DUI, I just don't agree with the laws that are in efect at this time.

 

[mordantly]

why do you think they hide behind flack jackets, even though only small arms fire is contained?

 

[captianoats]

I had a similar device in college. It worked off of a 12 volt battery supply you plugged into the cigarette lighter in your car.

My buddy figured out the hole you plugged it into was the same size as the cell phone charger he plugs into the wall. He grabbed the breatholizer and plugged it into the wall. Created instant smoke and that was the end of my new toy.

I told him it worked, if he makes it smoke he's drunk.

 

[Stagnasty]

What,, no comment for the brewpatrol???

 

[yeoldebrewer]

I know the laws are necessary. But I'm seeing a lot of good reasons here for doing your drinking at home.

 

[rico567]

Are you serious???? You really think someone should THANK you for arresting them with a DUI???? You MUST be a cop.

In NC if you blow, just below the limit, they will take you to jail and make your wait about 45 mins and then blow you again,,, The assumption is that if you are at the limit, you problly have another beer in ya,,, so they bust you for "sitting in the police station with a beer in your belly" not for driving over the limit. Not only is this an improper serach and seizure, its a clear indication of how the troopers are just interested in getting DUI's under their belt (in NC every dui bust is compensated with comp time towards retirement).

Pardon me if I don't thank you for your ideas on DUI

Least you think I'm too bitter, I got my first DL in 1968 and have never had a DUI, I just don't agree with the laws that are in efect at this time.

I believe that the idea of compensation in any form for an arrest is probably a violation of of a Supreme Court decision (the name of which eludes me) whereby justices of the peace in some state were being compensated for every traffic conviction. I doubt that comp time toward retirement would be exempt, although this might be a different case because it's going to boil down to probable cause, and I'm not enough of a legal-beagle (nor do I care enough) to state whether being just under the limit for DUI is sufficient grounds to hold someone and see if they blow a bigger number. Strictly personally, I think it blows, but not in the same sense.

 

[Houblon]

< Rant >
I hate people who drink & drive

Having experinced a drunk driver(crash) I say our laws are too soft re: DUI
Same for driving while texting & cell phones :evil:
< rant off >
****************************

European Union

* Austria: 0.05% and 0.01% for drivers who have held a licence for less than 2 years and drivers of vehicles over 7.5 tonnes
* Belgium: 0.05%
* Bulgaria: 0.05%
* Czech Republic: Zero
* Denmark: 0.05%, imprisonment if over 0.08%, zero if involved in an accident
* Estonia: 0.02%
* Finland: 0.05%
* France: 0.05%
* Germany: zero for beginners (less than 2 years' experience and drivers under the age of 21) as well as drivers making commercial transportation of passengers; 0.03% in conjunction with any other traffic offense or accident; 0.05% without evidence of alcoholic impact; penalty for 0.11% is driver licence withdrawn for about one year; for 0.16% regranting of the licence requires a successful medical-psychological driver assessment
* Greece: 0.05% (BrAC 0.25 mg/L)% and 0.02% for drivers who have held a license for less than 2 years, motor cycle and professional drivers
* Hungary: Zero
* Ireland: 0.08% to be reduced to 0.05% or 0.02% for learner and professional drivers.
* Italy: 0.05%
* Latvia: 0.02% for drivers with less than 2 years of experience and 0.05% for those with more than 2 years of experience
* Lithuania: 0.02% for drivers with less than 2 years of experience and 0.04% for those with more than 2 years of experience
* Luxembourg: 0.05% and 0.02% for professional drivers and drivers with less than 2 years of experience
* Malta: 0.08%
* Netherlands: 0.05%, 0.02% for drivers with less than 5 years' experience
* Poland: 0.02%
* Portugal: 0.05%
* Romania: Zero
* Slovakia: Zero
* Slovenia: Zero for drivers with 2 years or less experience and professional drivers, 0.24 mg/l (0.05%) for all others.
* Spain: 0.05% and 0.03% for drivers with less than 2 years experience and drivers of freight vehicles over 3.5 tonnes, and of passenger vehicles with more than 9 seats.
* Sweden: 0.02% (up to 6 months imprisonment), 0.10% (imprisonment, maximum 2 years)
* United Kingdom: 0.08%

 

[Scut_Monkey]

I'm not sure about all the DUI laws in the US but I feel that 0.8% blood alcohol content is a good limit. I don't feel my reactions are slower or my driving is affected at that level. Although I'm a very non-aggresive driver even if I've had one drink. Some people become very aggresive drivers when drinking which is the exact opposite of what you want.

 

[rico567]

I agree that a blood alcohol level of .08 is low enough. As the limit is lowered it raises more issues of false positives and problems with the test equipment itself. I believe that lower limits are just designed to catch people who are not impaired in any verifiable sense. This is effectively no different than a kind of prohibition.

A lot of the push to lower limits in this country has the "New Drys" behind it. And, yes, there is a prohibition movement that is alive and well in this country, it just doesn't have any kind of real popular support. That could change; the biggest thing standing in its way is the revenues from alcohol. For now, they'll settle for pushing anything that makes it harder to consume.

 

[Stagnasty]

As an old goat, I remember when there was no legal limit. Less drivers then, but no more wrecks by .08 drivers either. Drunks can't drive,,, no doubt,,and ought to be arrested,, but 4 light beers doesn't mean your gonna kill everybody on the road either. My take on it is this, a drunk that insists on driving, has no respect for the law or anyone else, so why the big deal about such a small blood alcohol level??? IMHO it is just a way to extract money from the straving masses

 

[Soybomb]

As an old goat, I remember when there was no legal limit. Less drivers then, but no more wrecks by .08 drivers either. Drunks can't drive,,, no doubt,,and ought to be arrested,, but 4 light beers doesn't mean your gonna kill everybody on the road either. My take on it is this, a drunk that insists on driving, has no respect for the law or anyone else, so why the big deal about such a small blood alcohol level??? IMHO it is just a way to extract money from the straving masses

Exactly, I kind of agree with the last guy too that there's certainly a prohibitionist movement to some degree. Look at the dumb open container laws that say its better for me to pound my drink before I leave the restaurant than take it with me. Look at the decrease from .1 to .08 The prohibitionists sell it as taking dangerous drunks about to kill families off the street. The cops I've talked to tell me the person at .09 isn't the horror story traffic accident its sold as, those drivers are usually at least twice that. Anyway I think to that end .1 to .08 probably hasn't increased safety at all. A lot of people accept it as reasonable though. Keep an eye out though because I think those new prohibitionists like MADD are going to keep pushing. Look at europe. I think its clear we're eventually going to go to .05 if they have their way

 

[yeoldebrewer]

MADD was reasonable at one time but is now drunk with political power.

"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
Robert Heinlein

 

[Brewpatrol]

I work in a job that requires me to enforce the laws made by the powers that be in this state. That being said, I don't agree with all laws that are written in the Penal/Vehicle code. I did however swear an oath that i would uphold these laws everytime I put my uniform on. In the end its just a job that pays my bills. When I go off duty, I go home, brew beer and throw back a few just like all you guys.

 

[yeoldebrewer]

Brewpatrol, You guys do a tough and necessary job. When we need help, the first call we make is to the police.

The quote from Heinlein was in reference to big bureaucracies who feel compelled to perfect the world. I know people who would love to see a "nanny state".

I remember the old days too. The freedom to drive while quaffing beer from a brown paper bag has a kind of Wild West appeal. But the reality was a bit harder.

End of rant...