astringent taste from rinsing grains?

[mafew2000]

I recently bottled a few batches of beer and both seem to have the same problem...a prolonged, not so pleasant bitter after taste. I got to thinking and I remember rinsing out the specialty grains after I let it steep for the 30-min. I had good temp control and didn't boil the grains, but I sent some plain water through the grains until it ran clear into the wort. I'm thinking this may have caused that really bad-bitter aftertaste. Am I on the right track here? And if so, is there anything I can do for a batch that's in the secondary right now to reduce or eliminate that before I bottle?

 

[Zymurgrafi]

Tannin extraction from rinsing specialty grains is pretty unlikely. Even if you used boiling water to rinse them the water is just passing through.

Without knowing other variables, like what style of beer, what the ingredients were etc. it will be hard to pin point. I am willing to bet it is just green though and will be fine.

 

[TexLaw]

What was the style? If you recently bottled, you probably just need some conditioning to round out that bitterness. An unpleasant, harsh bitterness often is a sign of young beer.


TL

 

[Revvy]

I always rinse my grains, but usually only with a quart of warm water of so...never til they run clear...I agree with TL & Zym, that it is just green. I get a lot of "grainy" or astringent tastes in my Extract w/grain recipes that have a lot of grains in the grainbill, but they always smooth out once the beer is conditioned in the bottle.

 

[mafew2000]

One of the beers was a NB Phat Tyre Amber Ale kit, the other is a NB Nukey Brown Ale kit. Both spent 1 week in the primary, 2 weeks in a secondary, 2 weeks of bottling conditioning before I cracked them open.

I've got a nice beer fridge in the garage and have both of them in it now, is it better to let them to condition at room temperature than in the fridge to get rid of that taste?

 

[Revvy]

One of the beers was a NB Phat Tyre Amber Ale kit, the other is a NB Nukey Brown Ale kit. Both spent 1 week in the primary, 2 weeks in a secondary, 2 weeks of bottling conditioning before I cracked them open.

I've got a nice beer fridge in the garage and have both of them in it now, is it better to let them to condition at room temperature than in the fridge to get rid of that taste?

Condition at room temp a minimum of 3 weeks (3 weeks @ 70) before chilling...sometimes longer if they aren't carbed up yet.

I wrote this up awhile back, I usually send the link out when someone says their beer is undercarbed (especially if they only opened it after a few days) or if it has green tastes...it will cover the carb/conditioning process.


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/558191-post101.html

 

[ifishsum]

I've had what sounds like the same aftertaste but it's always gone away after an extra week or two in the bottles. It's always been that first sample bottle at two weeks that had the aftertaste.

If it was tannin from the grain husks, there would be nothing you could do about it after the fact. The only cure for that is to keep your sparge (rinse) at 170 or less and don't overdo it.

 

[mafew2000]

Thanks for all of the tips and advice. I'll give it another few weeks in the bottle and hope it improves.

The first brew I made (Brewers Best Red Ale) didn't have that aftertaste and it had specialty grains with it too, but I didn't rinse it, which made me think rinsing in the later batches was the problem. Maybe it was just the different types of grain for the Phat Tyre and the Nukey Brown that just need more time in the bottle to condition.

 

[Revvy]

Maybe it was just the different types of grain for the Phat Tyre and the Nukey Brown that just need more time in the bottle to condition.

That's my bet, just not used to the grains...they will mellow out with time.

 

[monty3777]

However, this could be caused if you squeezed the grains to get every last drop of water out of the grain bag, could it not? So be honest - did you squezze your bag. Remember, you are among friends here

 

[Revvy]

However, this could be caused if you squeezed the grains to get every last drop of water out of the grain bag, could it not? So be honest - did you squezze your bag. Remember, you are among friends here

Good catch monty....I've forgotten about that since it's been awhile since I steeped grains...

 

[mafew2000]

No, I didn't squeeze...I do find it tempting to squeeze every last drop out ...but I didn't do that.

I vaguely remember the guy at the shop where I bought all my equipment warning me not to squeeze the bag, which also made me think rinsing may also be an undesirable thing to do too.

I'm thinking about trying an experiment on my next batch, let the grain bag drip until its nearly done dripping into the wort, drip some of the remainder of the liquid that's left in the bag into a small bowl or cup, then rinsing the bag and catch it in another bowl or cup. Then I'm going to drink some of the stuff from both of the bowls to see if there is much of a flavor difference.

 

[lamarguy]

Squeezing the bag extracts tannins? Guys, that's a myth.

Tannin extraction results from two primary conditions:

1. High pH and low gravity (i.e., < 1.010) combined with sparge temperatures (e.g., 160F - 170F).
   
2. Temperature higher than 170F.

Squeezing the bag results in neither of those conditions. The likely cause (#1) is in the original post:

I had good temp control and didn't boil the grains, but I sent some plain water through the grains until it ran clear into the wort.

If the wort runs clear, you oversparged and extracted some tannins. Given time, they will dissipate.

 

[lamarguy]

Oh, and I realize it's too late now, but if this happens again you can use gelatin fining to remove the tannins. Just be sure to sample the batch before racking.

 

[mafew2000]

Thanks for the advice on the finings...I've actually got another batch in a secondary now I'm going to sample before I bottle to see if I've got the bitterness. I'll give the finings a try if I've got a problem with the current batch.

 

[monty3777]

Squeezing the bag extracts tannins? Guys, that's a myth.

Tannin extraction results from two primary conditions:

1. High pH and low gravity (i.e., < 1.010) combined with sparge temperatures (e.g., 160F - 170F).
   
2. Temperature higher than 170F.

Squeezing the bag results in neither of those conditions. The likely cause (#1) is in the original post:



If the wort runs clear, you oversparged and extracted some tannins. Given time, they will dissipate.

Who said anything about tannins? Just like with pressing wine - you can get off flavors when elememnts other than the grape itself and the skins are squeezed. There are lots of off-flavors in grape seeds etc. This is one of the things that differentiates fine wine from jug wine. I was refering to the possibility that squeezing all the liquid from soaked grains can introduce unwanted flavors. My post made no mention of tannins.

 

[lamarguy]

Who said anything about tannins?

An astringent taste from mashing grain = tannins. Another likely source of astringent flavors is high alpha hops, which the OP didn't use, so we're left with tannins.

Just like with pressing wine - you can get off flavors when elememnts other than the grape itself and the skins are squeezed. There are lots of off-flavors in grape seeds etc.

Ha...Who said anything about grapes? I thought we were making beer.

In all seriousness, though, the whole "squeezing the bag = bad" myth is everywhere and it's incorrect advice for new brewers.

 

[monty3777]

An astringent taste from mashing grain = tannins. Another likely source of astringent flavors is high alpha hops, which the OP didn't use, so we're left with tannins.



Ha...Who said anything about grapes? I thought we were making beer.

In all seriousness, though, the whole "squeezing the bag = bad" myth is everywhere and it's incorrect advice for new brewers.

My point was as clear as a bell and as brilliant as the general theory of relativity. :rockin:

Reread it. Then reread it again. Then sleeep on it - then reread it. It will make more sense to you.