Are you a brewer?

[Orfy]

Ok, I think that orfy may have been trying to stir up some **** here.

As for the **** comment, if that's your feelings then feel free to walk away from my **** stirring threads.

I'm not actually looking for an answer, I don't need an answer .

It's a little thing called the art of conversation.
Also being interested in the wide and interesting views of fellow members of this fine forum.

 

[olllllo]

Brewer is an overarching term just like the analogous Chef.

Chef
Station Chef
Sous Chef
Executive Chef - who may not actually cook at all.

Commerical Brewer
Head Brewer
Assistant Brewer
Etc.

Working in a commercial brewery may warrant a title of Brewer but your duties might only entail one aspect of the entire process.

 

[Evan!]

As for the **** comment, if that's your feelings then feel free to walk away from my **** stirring threads.

I'm not actually looking for an answer, I don't need an answer .

It's a little thing called the art of conversation.
Also being interested in the wide and interesting views of fellow members of this fine forum.

I wasn't worried about you stirring the sh*t, orfman. That much was obvious. Actually, my initial reaction was, "oh, no you di-unt!"

 

[AnOldUR]

The process of making beer starts with preparing the ground for growing hops and grain and ends with carbonation. How many of these steps do you have to do to be considered a brewer?

Brewing consists of adding water, grain, hops and yeast. If you are responsible for combining any of these ingredients and it results in beer, you are a brewer. That doesn’t mean your good at it or even understand it.

What if you did none of it? What if you reached the point where you owned a microbrewery and you crafted the recipes, but delegated the process?

The important step comes when you gain an understanding of the process and can combine ingredients without a recipe to create something unique and desirable. Just doing AG is not enough. You are no better then the hired help. At some level we are all brewers, but how many of us are Craft Brewers?

(Not me. I AG, but still have a lot to learn.)

 

[maltMonkey]

I say if you're not growing your own hops and malting your own barley then you're not a brewer

 

[homebrewer_99]

All good points so far, but I have to disagree with Orfy on this one.

Regardless of anyone else's opinion I consider myself a brewer. I use extract and steep grains. I will NEVER go all grain because (to me) it is a waste of time. I control the type and amount of DME I add to the water. This is called an additive art versus AGing where you boil down to a particular volume, which is called a subtractive art.

If you want to brew AG then have at it, but that doesn't mean an AGers brew tastes any better than someone who uses extract...different technique, same results. A moped can't go on the highway, but they can end up at the same destination as a race car. It just takes a little longer using a different route.

Hell, many brew pubs use extract now. Are they also not brewers? They have a diploma on the wall to prove they are. They spent a lot of money on the education and was awarded a certificate from an accredited institution so how can you/we say they are not?

To argue if a cook is really a cook or just someone who heats things up is a great comparison too.

A cook/chef does not receive live animals at their restaurant door. They are already dead, cleaned and packaged. Dessert ingredients come in 10# cans. Does he become a butcher just because he cuts a certain thickness of a steak? I don't think so. They may add a certain flair and art to the presentation, but in the end he is still just "heating" things up...sounds a lot like opening that can of soup that was mentioned earlier.

In the US it's legal for anyone to buy and mix up all the ingredients necessary to make beer, even the yeast. But you have to be 21 to add the yeast at the brew on the premises shops.

Orfy, you are entitled to your opinion, as we all are, but I just have to disagree with you on this subject.

We still cool?



As for growing your own hops goes, I have to agree with you. I grow my own hops, but I'm not a hop farmer. A hop farmer is not a brewer either, he's a hop farmer (unless he also brews).

 

[Orfy]

HB,

I'm looking for opinions, I'm not trying to say my point of view is right. It's just a point of view. I asked the question because I want to hear what others think.

The reason I asked is because when I added extract to water and pitched yeast I didn't feel like a brewer and felt cheated of the experience. Hell yeah, I made tasty beer but it was someone else's expertise and work that made it tasty.

 

[Beerthoven]

As for the **** comment, if that's your feelings then feel free to walk away from my **** stirring threads.

I'm not actually looking for an answer, I don't need an answer .

It's a little thing called the art of conversation.
Also being interested in the wide and interesting views of fellow members of this fine forum.

Ok, well I'm glad you added the quote because I thought I was the one who pissed you off. Maybe I did.

I can appreciate what you are saying. Only by mashing grains do you fully engage in the whole brewing process and in doing so earn the right to call yourself a brewer. My own interpretation is more inclusive, as I consider extract brewers to be real brewers also. The Mr. Beer types, well, thats harder to swallow, but I come down on the side of inclusion rather than exclusion.

It makes me sad and angry when I hear extract brewers say things like "I brew with extract and I feel like I'm not really a brewer. Its like I'm just opening a jar of Ragu." I feel like slapping them up side the head and telling them to quit feeling sorry for themselves and take some pride in what they are doing. AG brewing is the fullest expression of brewership, but you don't have to go AG to make damn good beer you can be proud of. I want people to go AG because it is something they want to explore, rather than because they feel they need to in order to have credibility.

As an AG brewer I don't want to put it in anybody's head that they are not fully a part of our community just because they brew with extract. I think that will ultimately drive people away from homebrewing.

 

[DeathBrewer]

i view brewing as an art...all artists use the tools they have and the process that works best for them.

my all-grain brews have turned out fantastic lately, but i've still been making plenty of partial mash brews that are just as good. not that we are talking about taste here, but i think that's the important part.

i think it's the process that makes you a brewer. i design all my own recipes...haven't done a kit in a long time. i have certain methods i use to come up with the best brew i can.

extract really has nothing to do with it. most of my brews that use extract are just so i can brew in my kitchen...it's difficult to do all-grain there. some of the work is done for me, but i use it to my advantage, and i still mash some grains, because that's how you make great beer.

i guess what i'm trying to say is that IMO, if you are just brewing to make beer, you're not a brewer. anybody can throw extract, hops and water into a pot, boil, cool and add yeast. when you start getting into the science and art of it, that's when you become a true brewer.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Orfy's a brewed up some **** here!!! Orfy - You are a **** brewer!!!

I'm an engineer by profession but I don't drive a train!!!!

I think you are brewing if you make beer. Titles don't mean anything anymore.

You might have brewer grades;

1. AG Brewer - Journeyman -
2. PM Brewer - Apprentice I
3. Extract Brewer - Apprentice II
4. Anything Less - Amateur Enthusiast

Any of these ways you are still making beer!!!

 

[McKBrew]

There are a few commercial micro-breweries that use extracts, does that mean that they are really not brewers? It really doesn't matter how you make beer, you are still a brewer in my opinion.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Making beer vs Brewing beer? Personally I make wine with a wine kit, I'm a "wine maker" when I crush strawberries etc to make a strawberry wine.

I think you should at least have to boil something for an hour to pay your brewer dues.

I don't think those breweries use prehopped extract though.

Regardless, as long as you are making beer, that is better than not making beer!

 

[McKBrew]

I would agree if you use a pre-hopped kit with no modifications, you might not really be a brewer. But as soon as you start adding hops, specialty grains, etc... to a base malt, whether is be liquid, dry, or grain you are a brewer. If you pick up any homebrewing book neither Palmer, Papazian, Miller or Zanisheff say that you have to be AG to be a brewer.

 

[pjj2ba]

Anybody at any level, one can be either a brewer or simply a mixer. I'll use an analogy from one of my other hobbies. I've known some "musicians" who had technical mastery of their instrument, but didn't play musically. They could play with blazing speed, loud, quiet, never miss a note or a beat. Amazing for sure, but it just wasn't moving. I've also known some who I would call true musicians, and they would make little mistakes here and there, but they were able to draw you in and touch your emotions. Very moving, and much more enjoyable.

I think one could have technical mastery of the brewing arts, and make very good beers, but that little something extra is missing. On the other hand I think someone who might not have the technique down precisely, but has some "knack" and is able to produce beers that are simply sublime. It's that "Je ne sais quoi".

 

[Brewtopia]

You're not a brewer unil you brew on a commercial level and sell that beer for a profit. Until then you are a HOMEbrewer.

 

[the_bird]

Wait until your lease is signed before talkin' smack there, 'Topia....

 

[BierMuncher]

I dunno...

You tell me:

 

[olllllo]

He's a brewer and soon to be brewing magnate.

Brewtopia has sold his beer.

 

[kenche]

As for the **** comment, if that's your feelings then feel free to walk away from my **** stirring threads.

I'm not actually looking for an answer, I don't need an answer .

It's a little thing called the art of conversation.
Also being interested in the wide and interesting views of fellow members of this fine forum.

hmmm, maybe this didn't translate so well. In my region, the phrase 'stirring up ****' simply means that someone brings up what they know will be a controversial subject which will likely lead to a polarizing debate/discussion.

It was not intended to be a crtiticism.

 

[PeteOz77]

The process of making beer starts with preparing the ground for growing hops and grain

I would have thought that part of the process would be called "Farming"

I guess a true woodworking craftsman isn't an artist if he doesn't plant the trees that he makes his handcrafted masterpieces from?

I don't think the production of raw materials is a necessary part of the brewing process.

Using that logic, I doubt anyone would become a chef! Imagine the size of the plot you would need to:

Grow the grain, to feed the cattle
A place to raise the cattle
A slaughterhouse to kill the cattle

Just to make a hmaburger pattie

Also:
Grow the grain, to make the flour
A grain mill to make the flour
Your own yeast bank to raise the bread
A commercial over to bake it.

I haven't even started on the cheese, ketchup and other condiments...

You get the point.

Obviously there is a lot of area between this scenario and feeding you family by driving up to the window at Macdonalds

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

And that changes the question HOW?

I was being satirically egotistical.

 

[homebrewer_99]

HB,

I'm looking for opinions, I'm not trying to say my point of view is right. It's just a point of view. I asked the question because I want to hear what others think.

The reason I asked is because when I added extract to water and pitched yeast I didn't feel like a brewer and felt cheated of the experience. Hell yeah, I made tasty beer but it was someone else's expertise and work that made it tasty.

That's OK. You got my opinion...

I can understand that you may feel better if you were deeper into the process, but where does it stop? After you AG for a while do you get an itch to grow and malt your own grain? I don't think it's necessary to get that deep into a hobby. If it were a job I would understand the point a bit differently though, but I would never say extract brewers are not brewers...OK, maybe as a joke, but not seriously.

I don't think extract brewers are necessarily relying on someone else experience either, just their labor...and we pay extra per pound for it. We're also skipping a step or two in doing so.

When I was younger I used to spend my money on models: planes, monsters, cars, etc., but I never got the urge to make my own molds and melt plastic down to make my own. Some people may have, but not me.

Cheers!!

 

[PeteOz77]

I don't purchase the beer that I drink. I make it.
I start with water, yeast and a conentrated Wort that I rehydrate. I control the amount of Malt, Hops, water and steeping grains that are added (or not added) I monitor and control the process from start to finish (well the yeast has a bit of a say in there as well..) and keg or bottle and carbonate it to my satisfaction.

Just because I didn't crush the grain, (Or grow it or malt it) and I didn't manually extract the malt from the grain, doesn't mean that I have not produced my own beer, does it?

When I bake a cake, I don't grow or mill that grain, I let someone else with that equipment do it for me, and I purchase a semi finished product. Same with the butter.. I didn't make that either, it's just another ingredient. I didn't grow or process the fruits or nuts either. Would my cakes be "Better" if I controlled the entire process? Maybe, maybe not, but either way, I baked a cake and didn't BUY a premade, mediocre cake that has been produced to suit the masses... I made MY cake!


Mmmmmm Beer....
Mmmmmm Cake....

And yes I do plan to go AG soon. More for the knowledge gained and the ability to say that I can do it, than I think I will make better beer. I reckon the guys who do it for a living are probably better at it than I am.

 

[PeteOz77]

I was being satirically egotistical.

Ahh, the satire.. that's what I missed

 

[chillHayze]

We all make beer.
Some EX and PM brewers do better that some AG brewers.
The proof is in the puddin' if you ask me. Good beer makes a good brewer, but bad beer, that just makes a brewer who has more to learn.

Cheers to all those who make it!

 

[malkore]

There are 'levels' or tiers of brewing.

I can make tastey food, but I'm not a 'chef' in the traditional sense.

I would tier brewing as:

1. extract
2. AG (includes PM)
3. Commercial brewing

each follows pretty similar skill sets and tasks, but each has its own sub-set of requirements and technical savvyness required.

 

[eschatz]

i dont know, but i'm thinking ready meal and a piece of toast would be nice right now!

 

[Sean]

To cook is to bring different ingredients together to achieve an individual flavor or reproduce one.

To Brew. To bring together ingredients to achieve an individual flavor, or reproduce one.

To be a beer brewer, I think you have to know what you want your end product to be before you begin.

ie. an IPA, with floral hops, or a rich malty porter. Then you have to select the proper ingredients and combine them with a bit of skill.

 

[BierMuncher]

The real question is whether we should brew these beers indoors with propane, in the converted keg we didn't return from our last party, using bleach to sanitize everything, and skipping the secondary because we use extra gelatin to clear our beer...

 

[uglygoat]

don't forget to piss on the beer bottles to remove the labels..