Are Wee Heavies hard to brew?

[Trail]

I'm learning brewing from my uncle, who has been doing it at home for more than 20 years and makes some of the best porters and ales I've ever had. He asked me what kind of beer I wanted to start with, and I replied an Irish red or a Wee Heavy. He replied that Wee Heavies are real that'd to brew because of their sweetness, and that they have to be heavily oxygenated and that it is technically quite difficult.

Is this accurate? None of the recipes I have found online have seemed that hard, and none of them mentioned the oxygenation thing.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Welcome to the obsession.

And no, they are very easy to brew. Just be sure to read up on current brew books and magazines, and of course the interwebz (especially home brew talk) for up to date information and techniques.

 

[Trail]

Thanks. And, huh. Unc isn't the type to mystify things. He actually said that brewing a Wee was beyond him, I wonder if he confused it with another type.

So is oxygenation not an issue?

 

[Yooper]

Thanks. And, huh. Unc isn't the type to mystify things. He actually said that brewing a Wee was beyond him, I wonder if he confused it with another type.

So is oxygenation not an issue?

Well, you should always oxygenate any beer. That's pretty easy, though- you can splash the wort going into the fermenter or shake the fermenter up, and that will be fine. Shaking the fermenter for 5 minutes before adding the yeast, or stirring well with a sanitized rod/spoon, or splashing going into the fermenter will help oxygen to the wort which yeast need to reproduce in a healthy way. Healthy yeast is important in a good beer!

One thing that is really important, though, is to make sure you use enough yeast. If you're using dry, you'll probably need two 11 gram packages. If you're using liquid, you'll definitely need to make a starter or pitch two packages (or maybe even three, depending on the OG of the wort!)/

 

[Reno_eNVy]

No it is not an issue. Every brew you make should be well aerated before you pitch your yeast.

I think he may be assuming you need to hit the wort with an oxygen tank but that's just not necessary. Personally I use a mixer with a whisk attachment for a minute or two and get a nice big whirlpool and frothy foam on the wort before I pitch.

Another thought is that oxygenation-caused flavors can be style appropriate (this is oxygenation after fermentation as occurred, of course)

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Beat me to it Yoop! I'm so much slower on my phone

 

[mikeysab]

This is my latest obsession. Getting malt character instead of malt sweetness. The beer that dragged me in is oskar blues old chub. The thick malty goodness is what I want to replicate. I tried a strong scotch ale, and I got malt sweetness, not character. Good beer, but nothing close to old chub. I have a few ideas on formulating a recipe, but so far, my recipe formulations have been close to fails. I.m going to keep an eye on this thread for any tips as well

 

[cimirie]

Thanks. And, huh. Unc isn't the type to mystify things. He actually said that brewing a Wee was beyond him, I wonder if he confused it with another type.

So is oxygenation not an issue?

I don't think he's mystifying anything. "Old Timers" in any hobby or trade tend to think along the lines of when they learned. 20 years ago, brewing materials and techniques were at a very primitive level. Yeasts weren't reliable, malts weren't as modified, techniques weren't as widely shared. I would bet brewing any high gravity beer successfully 20 years ago would have been more difficult than today. So in his mind, a wee-heavy may be tough, but it's not so much today. My first AG was a wee-heavy, for example.

Proper oxygenation of wort is highly recommended for any high gravity beer. It produces better results and the yeast are generally happier. Having said that, I've done many a high-gravity brews without an oxygen stone. The results have been very good, but may have been better with a stone. If you do a wee-heavy without a stone, make sure you shake the living hell out of the bucket or carboy - even more than you usually would. The yeast will need every last ounce of oxygen you can provide. Oh, and an airlock won't cut it. Make sure you use a blowoff tube!

My two cents, anyways.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

This is my latest obsession. Getting malt character instead of malt sweetness. The beer that dragged me in is oskar blues old chub. The thick malty goodness is what I want to replicate. I tried a strong scotch ale, and I got malt sweetness, not character. Good beer, but nothing close to old chub. I have a few ideas on formulating a recipe, but so far, my recipe formulations have been close to fails. I.m going to keep an eye on this thread for any tips as well

Ah, yes this is very very important!

Scotch ales are all about maltiness is the sense of toasty, biscuity, bold and grainy... but not sweet.

To get malt without sweetness stay away from crystal malts! For UK beers, get your maltiness from brown, mild, biscuit, or victory malts (there are plenty of others) and for German or other continental beers, use Munich or Vienna.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I don't think he's mystifying anything. "Old Timers" in any hobby or trade tend to think along the lines of when they learned. 20 years ago, brewing materials and techniques were at a very primitive level. Yeasts weren't reliable, malts weren't as modified, techniques weren't as widely shared. I would bet brewing any high gravity beer successfully 20 years ago would have been more difficult than today. So in his mind, a wee-heavy may be tough, but it's not so much today. My first AG was a wee-heavy, for example.

This is kind of what I was alluding to in my first post. But it would have taken forever to really delve into it on my phone

 

[Trail]

I don't think he's mystifying anything. "Old Timers" in any hobby or trade tend to think along the lines of when they learned. 20 years ago, brewing materials and techniques were at a very primitive level. Yeasts weren't reliable, malts weren't as modified, techniques weren't as widely shared. I would bet brewing any high gravity beer successfully 20 years ago would have been more difficult than today. So in his mind, a wee-heavy may be tough, but it's not so much today. My first AG was a wee-heavy, for example.

Ahh, that does make sense. I'm not sure I want to do an uber-strong brew, over 7% would make drinking even one a problem (I'm a world class ligweight!) but there are some <6 ABV brews in the style on the market so it's probably okay.

Proper oxygenation of wort is highly recommended for any high gravity beer. It produces better results and the yeast are generally happier. Having said that, I've done many a high-gravity brews without an oxygen stone. The results have been very good, but may have been better with a stone. If you do a wee-heavy without a stone, make sure you shake the living hell out of the bucket or carboy - even more than you usually wood. The yeast will need every last ounce of oxygen you can provide. Oh, and an airlock won't cut it. Make sure you use a blowoff tube!

My two cents, anyways.

Hey fella, your two cents are spending pretty good so far! Though aeration stones look wicked simple to use, I dunno what the problem would be. I accidentally boiled a twist tie in my wort, having stuff in the fermented ON PURPOSE would be a snap for me!

 

[nocsimian]

So I'll throw this out there as well and folks can correct me as needed. I've done two Wee Heavys and ran into the same issue same time - fermentation temp. I believe most Scottish Ale strains do best at 64 degrees as opposed to 68-70 range.

 

[cimirie]

So I'll throw this out there as well and folks can correct me as needed. I've done two Wee Heavys and ran into the same issue same time - fermentation temp. I believe most Scottish Ale strains do best at 64 degrees as opposed to 68-70 range.

Lower 60s is best for a wee-heavy, depending on yeast. Lower temps usually give off less esters leading to a more true malt profile.

 

[Trail]

Lower 60s is best for a wee-heavy, depending on yeast. Lower temps usually give off less esters leading to a more true malt profile.

Guess I will need to wait until the heart of winter, then. There isn't a practical way to cool the space below 65 degrees until it gets cold enough for the furnace.

 

[cimirie]

Guess I will need to wait until the heart of winter, then. There isn't a practical way to cool the space below 65 degrees until it gets cold enough for the furnace.

Check your yeasts. I'm pretty sure the Edinburg ale yeast by WL is low 60s which is optimal, but I could be wrong. But you could use a us05 in the mid to upper 60s. Your beer would be much cleaner. Or you could use us04 or notty in mid 60s which would add a touch of English fruitiness (which isn't totally out of style). All 3 alternates could produce a good wee-heavy. If forced to choose, I'd go with us04.

 

[JonM]

Wee heavies are awesome and there are some tricks, like kettle caramelization, that make things a little more difficult than the average brew, but still - totally doable.

Here's the problem though: wee heavies are usually pretty high in ABV (the one I just did is 9.7%ish). Those need a long time to age and mellow out. I sure wasnt patient enough for that when I first started out.

How about a Scottish 30 shilling or 60 shilling? Same kind of thing, just ready sooner.

 

[daksin]

It's consistently about 80 degrees in my house, and I've had no problem keeping my beer at ~66 with wet towels and a fan. No reason you can't brew during the summer. You'd probably do even better with the tote bucket full of water plus frozen water bottles, like many around here do.

Brew year round, I say!:rockin:

 

[djfriesen]

Agreed. I never spent a summer in Vermont, but swamp coolers are usually good for 10* under ambient. But I'm lucky cuz my wife insists on keeping the house pretty cool, so that gets me right where I need to be. My porter is sitting at right around 60 right now.

 

[Trail]

Agreed. I never spent a summer in Vermont, but swamp coolers are usually good for 10* under ambient. But I'm lucky cuz my wife insists on keeping the house pretty cool, so that gets me right where I need to be. My porter is sitting at right around 60 right now.

Unfortunately, I don't have central air or anything. The space where I'm brewing now is the most temp-stable space in the house and it's not really spacious. When you say "swamp coolers" do you mean like an actual, on-wheels swamp cooling solution, or do you mean the wet tee-shirt and water tubs dealie?

 

[Trail]

Wee heavies are awesome and there are some tricks, like kettle caramelization, that make things a little more difficult than the average brew, but still - totally doable.

Here's the problem though: wee heavies are usually pretty high in ABV (the one I just did is 9.7%ish). Those need a long time to age and mellow out. I sure wasnt patient enough for that when I first started out.

How about a Scottish 30 shilling or 60 shilling? Same kind of thing, just ready sooner.

I've never had either style! Patience wise I'm not super worried, because even though I AM super impatient I'll need to have one of my brews out of its vessel and bottled before I can really think about doing more. The way I see it, I can be patient if I have plenty of other beer to fuss over.

Is the Sam Adams Scottish Ale similar to a 60/30 shilling? According to BeerAdvocate it's a wee heavy, but I was skeptical because it's under six ABV. Something like that would be fine, I remember drinking both of the scotch ales in my 12-pack and thinking "Wow! I want to brew something like this, only with more of that taste and maybe some other stuff." I'm usually unspecific like that.

It's consistently about 80 degrees in my house, and I've had no problem keeping my beer at ~66 with wet towels and a fan. No reason you can't brew during the summer. You'd probably do even better with the tote bucket full of water plus frozen water bottles, like many around here do.

Brew year round, I say!:rockin:

I guess I'm mostly just concerned about how long I can leave it unattended with that kind of setup. Work keeping me out of the house for 10+ hours at a stretch is not unheard of at all! :/

Is this kind of timeframe unreasonable to expect of a damp tee shirt left alone in a bucket with a bucket of beer?

Agreed. I never spent a summer in Vermont, but swamp coolers are usually good for 10* under ambient. But I'm lucky cuz my wife insists on keeping the house pretty cool, so that gets me right where I need to be. My porter is sitting at right around 60 right now.

Summers in Vermont are dreadful, hot, humid things that were created by God to melt Daleks. They're half of the reason Vermonters are so into blitzing themselves on craft beers (the winters are the other half.)

 

[JonM]

Take a look at HBT's recipe database - there's a section for Scottish and Irish Ales. Might give you some good ideas. Cheers!