Are solar panels worth it?

[Dland]

I've talked to more solar places today than I can keep track of. Starting Thursday I've got people coming over to give me estimates and options. Having talked to you guys, and others, I'm guessing I'll probably be going solar. I'll have a better idea in a week or so.
Thanks everyone!

If you go for it, and the job goes well, let me know what comany you used, or if you did it yourself, am in same area, with same double dip utility bill. thanks.

 

[kestrelbrewing]

We are in San Diego in about the same size house as you with a sloped roof facing due south. We just installed a 19 panel system. I'm still waiting for the installers to send us the app that shows usage, but our bills have been $16/month since we put the system in. $16 is what the power company charges for maintaining the grid, so our consumption is effectively at zero. The way SDGE does it is they keep track of how much you push back to them and then at the end of the year they settle up.
We don't have AC (don't need it, we are about 1.5 miles from the ocean on top of a hill and get reliable sea breezes in the afternoons). Running the dishwasher, all 5 ceiling fans, the clothes washer, and the clothes dryer, at mid day today, I checked the meter and it showed around -1.5 which would be pushing back to the grid. I've checked on days when we weren't doing anything other than everybody's computers and we've been pushing back as much as 6.5. We deliberately got an oversized system with the idea that until we can save up for a battery system, we can generate credits that will hopefully offset the wife's car charging at night in the event she is ever allowed to go back to the office instead of working from home.
We will eventually get the battery. We had a regional power outage several years back when some numbskull in Arizona flipped the wrong switch during some routine maintenance and knocked out power to about 3 million people. Considering it took the 48 hours to get that sorted out, the fact that our local utility likes to roll the dice with keeping the areas around their equipment free from highly flammable stuff during fire season, and the always fun to think about threat of earthquakes, a little backup seems like a good idea.

Short answer: I highly recommend it.

 

[kestrelbrewing]

Don't know what your state incentives are, but between 30% federal tax credit

Just a heads up: the Federal tax credit went down to 26% this year. It's slated to decrease slowly over time. I can't remember the exact schedule.

 

[Oldpaddy]

I'd second the home energy audit. It sounds like the main factor is your AC which is going to be affected by your windows, doors, and insulation levels. What kind of AC? If central air, make sure your filters are changed and then you could maybe use a cleaning on the unit. You'll be saving year round on both heating costs and electric costs if you have a properly insulated house with new windows. You should have a really huge layer of insulation in the attic considering you are in MA. Adding insulation is a dirty job to do but not particularly expensive if you do it yourself. If you are adding rolls, go with the no vapor barrier but see what you have first. It could be really old and useless plus some loose fill types have asbestos. Think about your return on investment, that's were you want to make efficiency upgrades. Energy star appliances will save you money but if you look at the yellow tag it's not a lot compared to heating and cooling savings. I understand your predicament, I have to do my windows and I know I will save a lot but I haven't been able to do it either.

Walls can be difficult to upgrade insulation but another place besides the attic is your basement if you have one. Also, the band joists (on top of the foundation wall) can lose a lot as well. These aren't typically insulated in an old house. Pretty inexpensive to do. A little tedious when the floor joists are perpendicular to the outside wall but easy when they are parallel. Use a panel type insulation to keep a good fit against the lumber rather than batts. Spray in insulation on cracks and seams and anywhere air leaks in. Old houses are very leaky compared to modern homes.

Thanks, no attic. All my walls and ceilings are insulated with, I think, r-24. The pink stuff and plastic sheeting creating a barrier from the inside. But I do need new windows. I'm long past due for siding and plan to do both at the same time. Which will be started within the next year or two. My ac is a large window unit through the wall. I was running high electric usage going back 20 years to when the windows were a lot newer and the house wasn't nearly as drafty. If I'm having an unusual power drain in my system, then there's not much it could be considering I've replaced just about every electrical component in my house over the last 20 years and I've always had high usage. The only thing that hasn't been replaced is the breaker box and wiring. A few things are old now and will need to be replaced over the next 5 years. Like the water heater, pressure tank and well pump. Those were all replaced within 5 years of each other 15-20 years ago. With the well pump being the oldest.
Despite my bill also being higher in the winter, the drafty house wouldn't affect my electric bill. That only would affect my coal bill. And it wouldn't be my water heater because that's up against the chimney which keeps it warmer in the winter than it is now.
I have a pretty good grasp on my usage in my house. I was just curious what everyone's thoughts were regarding the economic return on such a major investment.

 

[jrgtr42]

not sure when the last time you did an analysis on this one, but with installed cost per watt under $2 and he's paying 3-4x $per kWh that others who see payback in 5 years... not sure how you come to the ole "could cost him more in the end"... sure, if he pays out of pocket and then sells his house in the next couple years,

As long as the installed panels can create about what he needs, he should come out ahead (I don't ssay 'will' because who knows what the future will hold)
IF there's some sort of blockage, and the panels aren['t prooducing as efficiently as they should, he may come out behind. When I looked into it, the panels wouldn't produce enough to offset the cost, especially on a lease. I would be charged a certain amount by the company per panel installed, and as things looked, I'd end up owing more to them than I pay for standard electricity. Now, things might have changed in the 5 years since I ran the numbers, but I tend to doubt it.

 

[Oldpaddy]

We are in San Diego in about the same size house as you with a sloped roof facing due south. We just installed a 19 panel system. I'm still waiting for the installers to send us the app that shows usage, but our bills have been $16/month since we put the system in. $16 is what the power company charges for maintaining the grid, so our consumption is effectively at zero. The way SDGE does it is they keep track of how much you push back to them and then at the end of the year they settle up.
We don't have AC (don't need it, we are about 1.5 miles from the ocean on top of a hill and get reliable sea breezes in the afternoons). Running the dishwasher, all 5 ceiling fans, the clothes washer, and the clothes dryer, at mid day today, I checked the meter and it showed around -1.5 which would be pushing back to the grid. I've checked on days when we weren't doing anything other than everybody's computers and we've been pushing back as much as 6.5. We deliberately got an oversized system with the idea that until we can save up for a battery system, we can generate credits that will hopefully offset the wife's car charging at night in the event she is ever allowed to go back to the office instead of working from home.
We will eventually get the battery. We had a regional power outage several years back when some numbskull in Arizona flipped the wrong switch during some routine maintenance and knocked out power to about 3 million people. Considering it took the 48 hours to get that sorted out, the fact that our local utility likes to roll the dice with keeping the areas around their equipment free from highly flammable stuff during fire season, and the always fun to think about threat of earthquakes, a little backup seems like a good idea.

Short answer: I highly recommend it.

You don't have an issue with humidity? I live close to the water and humidity becomes a problem. Sometimes I have to turn the ac on even when it's not too hot out because the moisture becomes too much and my brick floor starts bleeding. Also, most summers here we have very little wind unless you live on the waters edge. It's funny because from october through june we have strong winds. We get hurricane type gusts during the winter. I remember a tourist opening up his house one spring and he was shocked when he checked his weather station and saw how hard the wind blows here during the winter.

 

[Brooothru]

I swapped out all my bulbs to cfl and now led 10+ years ago. And I've been in the dark ever since. I hate these stupid led bulbs. My livingroom and kitchen lights are built in and are made to use large globe bulbs. I think g40s. I paid an arm and a leg for fancy 8w globes years ago. While I saw a savings on electricity, I had to spend around $20 a bulb. I needed 12 bulbs. Everything I own now uses less electricity than 20 years ago. In some cases by a lot. Like tvs and computers.
I only heat with coal and wood. About $1000 a year. 15 years ago my exwife made me install propane heat. One month cost me what I spend in a year on coal. I had them rip the tank out that following spring. I will not go back to propane unless hell freezes over.
My biggest expense is water and the ac during the summer. There's not much fat left to trim.

When I was still working I would be out of town anywhere from 3-5 nights on average, 2-3 times per month. My wife liked an evening fire in the fireplace so I would clean out the fireplace and leave a 'match-ready' setup of logs before heading out on a trip. Of course when I returned the first order of business was to clean, build, replace. I got to enjoy fewer than half the fires I built. Then we got propane inserts for both the family room and my basement man cave. Big bucks for premium fireplace units, but even BIGGER bucks for 3-5 seasonal fills of the 80 gallon propane tank. Yikes. Sure is convenient though.

 

[Oldpaddy]

When I was still working I would be out of town anywhere from 3-5 nights on average, 2-3 times per month. My wife liked an evening fire in the fireplace so I would clean out the fireplace and leave a 'match-ready' setup of logs before heading out on a trip. Of course when I returned the first order of business was to clean, build, replace. I got to enjoy fewer than half the fires I built. Then we got propane inserts for both the family room and my basement man cave. Big bucks for premium fireplace units, but even BIGGER bucks for 3-5 seasonal fills of the 80 gallon propane tank. Yikes. Sure is convenient though.

Haha that's why I have kids. I cut down the trees and split them. The boys stack and fetch the wood for me. I also make them get me buckets of coal now. I just don't see how the cost of propane is worth the convenience unless you're old or crippled. The other thing that drives me nuts about propane is that you need electricity to use it. Not long after my ex made me get propane heat we got hit with a blizzard and we lost power. No big deal, I don't use electric heat. I had no idea that the furnace wouldn't run without electricity. I had jump ship and stay at my neighbors house a couple of miles away. I had never had to jump ship before and it stuck in my craw. Then the propane bill came in and I got really pissed. I live a half mile out on a dirt road in the woods. I don't usually have the luxury of leaning on someone for help when we lose power. I'll never go through that again.

 

[Dland]

You need a generator. I have wood heat I use primarily, but hot water still runs off oil boiler. It does not take much spark to run it, but it needs some. I think you said you are on well too, I would never be without a generators on a well. Not after going w/o power for two weeks after hurricane Bob.

 

[pdcm]

I had a 12kw 8.1kw system with battery backup (39 26 panels) installed in September 2019 and turned on mid-October 2019. I had the roof replaced a month or so before getting the solar installed, so hopefully I won't have to do anything major with it all for... many years.

Cost wise I can't really say if it was worth it or not since my primary reason for this was to charge/store/run during power outages. Within the last 3 years or so there were numerous small outages, but there were 3 outages that lasted for more than 24 hours each time. Call it a first world problem, but that was my primary reason for doing solar+battery. It should pay off eventually... and if you don't get the batteries, it might pay off sooner?

I'm in the mid-Atlantic area, and with 50% of the panels on the south facing roof areas and the rest on the north side I only get about half-usage out of it during the winter months. December was the worst for solar generation at 208kwh. June was so far the best, at 971kwh. I seem to use considerably less power, typically in the 600-700kwh range during the non-summer months, and up to 1200kwh when the AC is running. Heat/cooking is natural gas. The electric dryer is the biggest power suck, pulling around 6-8k watts when running. My power company does NOT pay me for over-generation, so my minimum power bill even when my usage was -238kwh ends up around $16 because of the line/connection/service fees.

I'm glad I did it, and it's been great so far.

 

[Randar]

I had a 12kw system with battery backup (39 panels) installed in September 2019 and turned on mid-October 2019.

...

I'm in the mid-Atlantic area, and with 50% of the panels on the south facing roof areas and the rest on the north side I only get about half-usage out of it during the winter months. December was the worst for solar generation at 208kwh. June was so far the best, at 971kwh.

WOW! That's all you get out of a 12 kW system in the mid-Atlantic? How many panels do you have north-facing and how much do you actually get out of those panels? That seems to me like wasted money. My 9.6kw system is maybe 10 degrees off due South in the Chicago area and this is my output history:

 

[Oldpaddy]

You need a generator. I have wood heat I use primarily, but hot water still runs off oil boiler. It does not take much spark to run it, but it needs some. I think you said you are on well too, I would never be without a generators on a well. Not after going w/o power for two weeks after hurricane Bob.

I lost power for two weeks a couple of years ago during the winter. I bought a generator last year and installed a suicide outlet. I bought it for the well and fridge. I remember as a kid the power went out here all the time. Even during the summer in nice weather. By the time I moved fully back in '03 the power almost never went out and not for long when it did. Except for the stay blizzard. Times have come full circle and now the power goes out a lot again.

I remember bob. My mother had a place on the vineyard. She rented out the main house and we stayed in the detached garage. My stove was a hotplate and an upside down trashcan lid on a tree stump that I used as a grill. Bathroom was a hemmoroid donut on a 5gal bucket. I would take a shower at the beach and hitchhike to Allys market for provisions. After bob hit she had water front property for a short time.
It's pretty amazing we haven't had a real hurricane in 30 years. I've been telling my wife to be ready, this is definitely going to be the year we get a hurricane. No way we don't. '20 has already been a **** storm. A hurricane will be icing on the cake.

 

[pdcm]

WOW! That's all you get out of a 12 kW system in the mid-Atlantic? How many panels do you have north-facing and how much do you actually get out of those panels? That seems to me like wasted money. My 9.6kw system is maybe 10 degrees off due South in the Chicago area and this is my output history:

Spoiler

View attachment 690615

The split is 21s/18n, 18s/8n but there are also several distinct levels/areas of the roof, and several trees on the south side (great for that sun-shade, not so great for solar generation). The way the roof is structured with multiple levels and the tallest part on the east side, the 4s/4n uppermost panels start out okay, but the remaining larger array (4s+10s 13s & 14n 8n) on the lower portions of the roof don't really kick in until later in the day. It's really not ideal. I don't think I've seen much above 6.2kw peak. Maybe I'm just unlucky.

Edit: now that you've brought this up, I'm wondering if there's something not configured properly, as that 6.2kW peak seems wrong.

Edit2: everything I said was wrong, apparently I'm a *******. I was looking at one of the original designs, not the final, which shows as an 8.19kW array.

 

[NitrogenWidget]

You don't have an issue with humidity? I live close to the water and humidity becomes a problem. Sometimes I have to turn the ac on even when it's not too hot out because the moisture becomes too much and my brick floor starts bleeding. Also, most summers here we have very little wind unless you live on the waters edge. It's funny because from october through june we have strong winds. We get hurricane type gusts during the winter. I remember a tourist opening up his house one spring and he was shocked when he checked his weather station and saw how hard the wind blows here during the winter.

That's amazing.
I'm in WNY with a stone foundation and installed concrete floors over the dirt to make the basement usable and if the dehumidifier hose clogs it feels like you can swim in the air down there.
but never standing moisture anywhere.
when I bought the house it was humid inside because of the dirt floor basement but the house was original 1880 so no insulation and rotted windows so it was able to escape.
I ended up gutting though before living there.

 

[Oldpaddy]

That's amazing.
I'm in WNY with a stone foundation and installed concrete floors over the dirt to make the basement usable and if the dehumidifier hose clogs it feels like you can swim in the air down there.
but never standing moisture anywhere.
when I bought the house it was humid inside because of the dirt floor basement but the house was original 1880 so no insulation and rotted windows so it was able to escape.
I ended up gutting though before living there.

I didn't mean standing water, but the floor gets very damp and slimy. You can feel it on your feet. The brick turns darker too. It's like being in a wet basement. If you put a rug down, which my wife prefers, it's inevitable I'll get mold at some point during the fall or spring.

 

[NitrogenWidget]

I didn't mean standing water, but the floor gets very damp and slimy. You can feel it on your feet. The brick turns darker too. It's like being in a wet basement. If you put a rug down, which my wife prefers, it's inevitable I'll get mold at some point during the fall or spring.

I get that when it rains a lot. like 3 days straight.
I have stone and drain tile under cement and sump in the basement but after 3 days of rain in warm weather the floor is....clammy and sump is running regular.
doesn't happen often though because my basement rarely gets higher than low 70's.

your air conditioner must generate a tremendous amount of water outside the window.

 

[Oldpaddy]

I get that when it rains a lot. like 3 days straight.
I have stone and drain tile under cement and sump in the basement but after 3 days of rain in warm weather the floor is....clammy and sump is running regular.
doesn't happen often though because my basement rarely gets higher than low 70's.

your air conditioner must generate a tremendous amount of water outside the window.

I actually cut a hole out of the wall and installed an ac about 10 years ago. This is the second one. And yes, it's a constant stream of water. When I redo my siding I'm going to have to come up with a better idea because for year it was dripping on the siding. I eventually propped up a piece of plywood to divert it off the siding lol. I've done a lot of work on this house over the years and I have a lot more to do. It's a never ending battle.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I replaced a 17 year old 28kbtu wall unit this year and the new unit actually came with the advisory that "under normal operation and conditions no condensate should drip out the drain hole".

And that turned out to be true. Even on the hottest most humid days so far I have not seen a single drop - whereas the old unit had a steady thin trickle on real humid days.

Somehow this design is able to pull all the condensate up off the bottom and fling it through the condenser. It's also rated ~20% higher SEER than the old unit, and the condensate handling may be why...

Cheers!

 

[Oldpaddy]

fwiw, I replaced a 17 year old 28kbtu wall unit this year and the new unit actually came with the advisory that "under normal operation and conditions no condensate should drip out the drain hole".

And that turned out to be true. Even on the hottest most humid days so far I have not seen a single drop - whereas the old unit had a steady thin trickle on real humid days.

Somehow this design is able to pull all the condensate up off the bottom and fling it through the condenser. It's also rated ~20% higher SEER than the old unit, and the condensate handling may be why...

Cheers!

Interesting. I've never heard of an ac that doesn't drip water. Even my car, which has one condenser, has two drain holes for the ac.

 

[day_trippr]

It may not be possible to route condensate from a car evaporator up to in front of the radiator, never mind if it is a good idea to then spray it over the condenser.

We have a small 8kbtu window unit that dribbles like a 10 month old baby cutting its first teeth

Cheers!

 

[Dland]

Speaking of hurricanes and solar panels; I wonder how solar arrays would stand up to a real CAT 1 or 2 storm? I imagine the insatllations are rated to some set wind velocity. Even outbuildings are supposed to be rated to 110MPH around here.

We've had a few winter gales in the last couple or years that hit 90 knots briefly, and I did not hear of any broken or lost panels, but that is not the same as a good hurricane, where the wind shifts direction over the course of the storm.

 

[Oldpaddy]

Speaking of hurricanes and solar panels; I wonder how solar arrays would stand up to a real CAT 1 or 2 storm? I imagine the insatllations are rated to some set wind velocity. Even outbuildings are supposed to be rated to 110MPH around here.

We've had a few winter gales in the last couple or years that hit 90 knots briefly, and I did not hear of any broken or lost panels, but that is not the same as a good hurricane, where the wind shifts direction over the course of the storm.

I would assume that's where insurance comes into play.

So I just got my first proposal in from a local guy. I have two more people showing up today and one tomorrow. There's so many moving parts in this solar stuff that I find it pretty confusing.
Basically the guy today said I should be able to wipe out my yearly electric bill and possibly make money. He said the state/electric company pays $.33 per kw I produce and in turn they charge me $.24 kw I use. That's through the smart program over the next 10yrs. He said I should be able to produce about 17kw/yr which would offset the 21kw/yr I use. The system would cost approx $40k upfront with around $12k coming back in incentives from the state/feds.

Edit: a quick mortgage calculator says $40k at 3% over 20yrs is $221/m. That's less than my lowest electric bill over the last year.

 

[Randar]

The system would cost approx $40k upfront with around $12k coming back in incentives from the state/feds.

Panel brands, inverter brand and size, and $/watt. Key numbers. $40k sounds like a BS price to me. I paid 28k straight up (before any incentives) for a 9.6kW system, SolarEdge inverter, and 29x 330W Panasonic panels. That was install Sept/Oct 2018. Prices have dropped since then.

 

[Auger]

I would assume that's where insurance comes into play.

So I just got my first proposal in from a local guy. I have two more people showing up today and one tomorrow. There's so many moving parts in this solar stuff that I find it pretty confusing.
Basically the guy today said I should be able to wipe out my yearly electric bill and possibly make money. He said the state/electric company pays $.33 per kw I produce and in turn they charge me $.24 kw I use. That's through the smart program over the next 10yrs. He said I should be able to produce about 17kw/yr which would offset the 21kw/yr I use. The system would cost approx $40k upfront with around $12k coming back in incentives from the state/feds.

Edit: a quick mortgage calculator says $40k at 3% over 20yrs is $221/m. That's less than my lowest electric bill over the last year.

Check those numbers... There's no way the electric company is going to pay you more for the electricity than they sell it for. They pay back at wholesale rates which is generally about 1/4 of your cost.

At last account true-up in March, I was paying 9 cents per kWh and the electric company paid me 2.75 cents per kWh for my excess.

 

[Oldpaddy]

So I now have 2x guys in the ballpark of $40k for an approx 17k system and one guy just gave me a quote for $60k for similar.
Without incentives.

I think I have another guy showing up soon and another coming tomorrow morning.

Apparently Massachusetts has some smart program where the electric company does indeed pay a total of approx $.33 per kw. I guess it's locked in for 10 years.

 

[Oldpaddy]

Check those numbers... There's no way the electric company is going to pay you more for the electricity than they sell it for. They pay back at wholesale rates which is generally about 1/4 of your cost.

At last account true-up in March, I was paying 9 cents per kWh and the electric company paid me 2.75 cents per kWh for my excess.

https://news.energysage.com/solar-m...smart-massachusetts-srec-replacement-program/

 

[Oldpaddy]

Panel brands, inverter brand and size, and $/watt. Key numbers. $40k sounds like a BS price to me. I paid 28k straight up (before any incentives) for a 9.6kW system, SolarEdge inverter, and 29x 330W Panasonic panels. That was install Sept/Oct 2018. Prices have dropped since then.

Where do you live again? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I will say everything around here is very expensive. Especially labor.

 

[pdcm]

So I now have 2x guys in the ballpark of $40k for an approx 17k system and one guy just gave me a quote for $60k for similar.
Without incentives.

I think I have another guy showing up soon and another coming tomorrow morning.

Spoiler

Apparently Massachusetts has some smart program where the electric company does indeed pay a total of approx $.33 per kw. I guess it's locked in for 10 years. View attachment 690768

That's a nice program. I get a whole lot of 0.00 for my overproduction. On the cost side of things, you could indeed be paying more due to regional labor rates or demand or whatnot. That might not be too off, considering it's a 17+kW system. For reference, I'm in Virginia, and my 8.1kW/26 panels, SolarEdge Inverter, and 27kWh of battery backup was $39k before incentives. Batteries were about half of it, so doubling that half does come close to your $40k quotes.

 

[ChiknNutz]

I've been looking into solar for many years, but the benefits so far haven't been justifiable for me. I moved from WA state and I never could justify the cost versus return. When I looked into it pretty seriously (2-3 years ago), a system to offset only about half of our usage would have been been $30k-$40k. Western WA just doesn't really get enough solar insolation to make a lot of electricity. Now in NC, it is more attractive. One thing I've been noticing as I research solar in a general sense, the incentives have been diminishing quite a bit over time. They were attracting folks to get on the bandwagon and now they've started to max out the programs. As of 2019, the county where we lived has turned off the local incentives altogether. I just check locally in NC and Duke Energy has also met their capacity for new systems for 2020. Point is, the incentives make it attractive but without them, it makes less sense until prices come down or efficiencies go up.

I took a class in alternative energy in college (20+ years ago now) and I remember that PV efficiencies were 12-16%. Today, they are only about 18% on average, with the highest being about 23%. I think there is a point they can only be so efficient given solar to electrical conversion efficiency.

Without getting into being green and offsetting carbon footprint and all that, the value is just barely there these days, at least to me when all things are considered. For the OP, it sounds like it could be attractive given the higher than average electrical cost in his area. For areas where it's more "average" it just isn't all that attractive to me yet, but I want it to be as I find it to be a great technology.

 

[Randar]

Where do you live again? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I will say everything around here is very expensive. Especially labor.

Suburban Chicago. Union and permit capital of the world. Doubt it's significantly more expensive in any of those categories. That being said, my system was 9.6 kW of unobstructed SSW facing panels (aka high output efficiency). $40k is roughly in-line with system if you really need a 17kW system... If you have obstructed or sub optimal roof space/orientation, you might need 17kW... but that is a BIG system!

 

[ChiknNutz]

Suburban Chicago. Union and permit capital of the world. Doubt it's significantly more expensive in any of those categories. That being said, my system was 9.6 kW of unobstructed SSW facing panels (aka high output efficiency). $40k is roughly in-line with system if you really need a 17kW system... If you have obstructed or sub optimal roof space/orientation, you might need 17kW... but that is a BIG system!

How much of your need does your system supply? I've done the math for me, and come up with about a 15kW system to supply 100% of the average annual need.

 

[Randar]

How much of your need does your system supply? I've done the math for me, and come up with about a 15kW system to supply 100% of the average annual need.

~3,000 sf 2-story home built in 1990 with full unfinished basement. Natural gas heat, dryer, water heater, & range ... electric ovens, I have a 30yo AC and a second AC that's about 20 yo (so not exactly efficient), and I run about 1500W worth of grow lights 16hrs a day from Jan through mid-May (legitimately just for my flowers and vegetable garden)...

With hourly-rate net metering, my typical bill is in the $5-10 range per month... Might be $25 in the winter if I have snow load or am running the grow lights a lot in a very cloudy Feb/March time of year. Would likely up right around $0 with some LED grow lights and new AC units when they need replacing.

 

[Oldpaddy]

...and I run about 1500W worth of grow lights 16hrs a day from Jan through mid-May...

...some LED grow lights...

Hey, me too! That's another one of my hobbies
FYI led sucks for gardens. It doesn't penetrate enough. HID is the only way to go. Soil or hydroponics? I use a poor mans hydroponics system (DWC). 4× 5gal buckets and another 5gal for a reservoir.

 

[Oldpaddy]

Suburban Chicago. Union and permit capital of the world. Doubt it's significantly more expensive in any of those categories. That being said, my system was 9.6 kW of unobstructed SSW facing panels (aka high output efficiency). $40k is roughly in-line with system if you really need a 17kW system... If you have obstructed or sub optimal roof space/orientation, you might need 17kW... but that is a BIG system!

I'm a big man!

 

[Randar]

Hey, me too! That's another one of my hobbies
FYI led sucks for gardens. It doesn't penetrate enough. HID is the only way to go. Soil or hydroponics? I use a poor mans hydroponics system (DWC). 4× 5gal buckets and another 5gal for a reservoir.

Modern LED (GE Arize are what I will be migrating to) is great for shorter/compact or young plants/starts... Not so much when they have height. I use custom soil mixes. Have resisted going hydroponic just for the rat-hole aspect of it.

 

[Oldpaddy]

Modern LED (GE Arize are what I will be migrating to) is great for shorter/compact or young plants/starts... Not so much when they have height. I use custom soil mixes. Have resisted going hydroponic just for the rat-hole aspect of it.

Rat hole?
I find it's a lot easier to fine tune your nutrient levels and no bugs. It's pretty hands off and easy to fix problems quickly. I change the water once a week, add (since I have well water) 10cc's of bleach and add nutrients. That's it for the week.
Edit: I've been using it for 5 years now.

Another one of my hobbies is a 300gal reef tank and use LEDs for it. Lower electrical costs and less heat. The color spectrum and growth is better than fluorescents, but HID is better for growth.

 

[Oldpaddy]

Another salesman just left. This guy was a friend of my wifes family. Similar sized system as the other two I've been given proposals of. He came in at $53k.

 

[Cptblamo]

Whatever u decide about the solar, look into getting it rodent proof. My wife and I had hundreds of lbs of pigeon poop falling from under our system because of an infestation. It cost us $1600 to clean and install guards and that was a steal. Most quotes I saw online were 3-5k... We dont have much rats or racoons in vegas, but I imagine they could be problems too. I heard if u go through a couple steps and say not having that installed is a deal breaker, they will throw it in for free.

 

[Oldpaddy]

Whatever u decide about the solar, look into getting it rodent proof. My wife and I had hundreds of lbs of pigeon poop falling from under our system because of an infestation. It cost us $1600 to clean and install guards and that was a steal. Most quotes I saw online were 3-5k... We dont have much rats or racoons in vegas, but I imagine they could be problems too. I heard if u go through a couple steps and say not having that installed is a deal breaker, they will throw it in for free.

I have built in rodent deterrents. Since I switched from a metal roof to an asphalt roof last year, my cats are always on the roof. I'll hear something and look up and see cat heads peaking in at me from the skylights. Only down side is one of the cats has now caught two bats up there and brought them inside. Luckily dead. Unfortunately they like to bring in live chipmunks and then set them free in the house so they can play with them. Kinda weird how they kill the birds, bats, mice and bunnies, but not the chipmunks. Half the time it's the dogs that end up killing the chipmunks.

 

[Randar]

Oh, and your quotes look to be coming in at something like $2.35-$3 per watt. Best give Tesla a call while you're at it... IIRC they use mostly Panasonics...