Appreciate some advice on making Cider

[Jeffery Fifield]

I am a newbie of a few years in trying to make hard cider here in Guatemala, where rarely does any imported cider appear. Supplies and equipment are limited. I would appreciate suggestions regarding my process and recommendations for any equipment to help me refine the drinkable product.

I aspire to a semi sweet/semi dry cider. In New England (USA) I like Citizen Cider Unified Press, Woodchuck Granny Smith and DownEast berry ciders. I also have liked Orangeboom and Magners. However, most all of my cider so far is fairly dry and rather acid sharp that makes drinking it difficult to drink more than 2-3 glasses. I would like some effervesence if possible.

Apple quality is limited here so I have been using Motts Organic Apple Juice found at an import store. I use the following yeasts that I bring back each summer when traveling to the US:

• Lallemand Nottingham
• SafAle S-04
• SafCider AS-2
• SafCider AB-1
• Red Star Cote des Blancs
• Lalvin EC-1118
• Cider House Select
• Mangrove MO2

I cannot really tell the difference in these as I feel that my process is not yet so stable. I use a lowly refined rather coarse locally produced sugar (brown granulated).

My process, whether in 1 gallon batches in the apple juice container or a 4 gallon batch in a corny keg is:
1. Dissolve 3/4 to 1 cup of sugar per gallon in the juice
2. Add the recommended amount of yeast
3. Seal with a rubber stopper airlock with vodka in it
4. Store in a dark cool space 55-65 degrees F for two weeks (typically bubbling through the airlock stops at this time or 1-2 days before)
5. Bottle in Grolsch-style ceramic stoppered bottles for a minimum of two weeks, stored in the same dark cool space. Will put in fridge or on ice prior to drinking.
*I have tried adding 1 ounce of sugar water during the bottling process in an attempt at creating more bubbles, but haven't really noticed a significant difference.

I drink the cider after 1 month, and have left it for up to 6 months, where it seems to be a bit drier.

I would appreciate feedback on the process, materials and equipment as I aim for better quality of sweetness and effervesence. I also welcome suggestions for flavoring (berries, pineapple, mangos, etc. as Guatemala is rich in this aspect).

Thanks in advance.

 

[Maylar]

Sweetness and carbonation are mutually exclusive. If you bottle carbonate, the yeast will consume all the sugar. Using non fermentable sugar as a sweetener can overcome that limitation. Or, checkout the bottle pasteurization sticky thread on this forum.

If you can get a keg it would open up a whole new world of possibilities.

And just FYI, most people don't add sugar to the juice. What comes in the juice gets you 5-6% alcohol.

 

[Jeffery Fifield]

Sweetness and carbonation are mutually exclusive. If you bottle carbonate, the yeast will consume all the sugar. Using non fermentable sugar as a sweetener can overcome that limitation. Or, checkout the bottle pasteurization sticky thread on this forum.

If you can get a keg it would open up a whole new world of possibilities.

And just FYI, most people don't add sugar to the juice. What comes in the juice gets you 5-6% alcohol.

Thanks, Dave, for the quick response.
No wonder the cider has seemed rather strong, given the extra sugar (right?). So, if I do not add sugar, the result would be a sweeter product in letting the sugar in the juice ferment?
Non fermentable sugars... seems like something to purchase in the US to bring back.
In referring to a keg, you mean with a CO2 system?
I will check out the thread mentioned.
Thanks.

 

[Maylar]

Adding sugar simply increases the alcohol content. With or without that, most yeasts will take cider to a completely dry state. Non fermentable sugars like Stevia or Xylitol can be added after ferment at bottling time, along with a small amount of sugar for carbonation. Do you have a hydrometer?

Yes, a kegging setup uses a CO2 tank for carbonation. You can stop fermentation with stabilizers, sweeten to your desired level, and get bubbles too.

 

[Rish]

Hey, @Jeffery Fifield ,
Welcome to HBT! I'd suggest checking out the cider recipe forum to get more ideas about improving your cider:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forums/cider-recipes.81/

Also, I use monk fruit sweetener which is not fermentable in some of my cider, mead, ginger beer, etc. A quick search indicated it's available in Guatemala so you may want to check it out.
Good luck!

 

[madscientist451]

Guatemala has its own apple production, go see the growers and ask about buying seconds (small or blemished) and also ask around if anyone makes cider. I use cider house select yeast, don’t add anything except my diy apple juice. I usually drink it six months to a year after starting. Finding the right blend of apple varieties is the biggest challenge.

 

[Chalkyt]

Sorry, I have been off on a few other things for a few days. like most of us I have been through the adventure of making rubbish cider and have finally gathered enough knowledge and skill to make a half decent beverage (actually won the recent rural show for cider this year), so I thought it might be worthwhile helping you avoid some of the pain.

As you have no doubt found, everyone has a slightly different approach. FYI, here is mine…

Here in Oz, we don’t really have domestic access to cider apples, commercially it is different because a number of the larger craft cider produces have planted varieties like Dabinet, Yarlington Mill etc, but generally these aren’t available to hobby cider makers. So, we have to make do with the usual commercial varieties such as red or Golden Delicious, Pink Lady, Granny Smith, Royal gala etc.

There are some orchards that will sell straight variety juices so we can buy these to make our own blend. Although I have a small orchard, it is mostly eating apples… Red Delicious, Granny Smith. Cox’s Orange Pippin and I find that with the right process and blend these make a reasonable cider.

So, my method simply is…

Ferment in an open container until the turbulent foam has settled, then transfer to a secondary carboy under airlock until fermentation is complete.

At this point decide how much sweetness or carbonation is needed and calculate what bottling SG will result in this. Then add the appropriate amount of sugar

For carbonation and sweetness the resulting refermentation must be stopped at the right SG.

As far as taste is concerned, bought juice and culinary apples are typically low in malic acid so the resulting cider can be “flabby” (yes, that is what it is called). The preferred acid level for cider to give it a bit of bite is around 5 – 6 g/L. So, adding a teaspoon of powdered Malic Acid to a gallon (5 litres) to cider low in acid can do wonders as can adding some tannin.

I have attached some information that goes into more detail and has some useful references that might help rather than complicate this reply with lots of details.

Have Fun!

 

[jnesselrode]

A few things I did that really improved my ciders:
1. Added a bit of grape tannin, ¼ teaspoon per gallon.
2. Boosted the acid with ½ teaspoon acid blend per gallon. Of course, these first two could vary based on your starting juice but I think most would benefit from similar additions.
3. Let them age significantly longer - six months or more.
4. I did a three-yeast experiment and Safale S-04 was the winner, Cote des Blanc second and Nottingham a distant third.


Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[fluketamer]

grahams is my favorite juice cider.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/grahams-english-cider.107152/

 

[Chalkyt]

The "Grahams" suggestion is a good one. I have made it, and the method that I outlined is very similar except for my addition of fermenting some sugar for carbonation and sweetness (I am not a big fan of the non-fermentable sweeteners which don't seem to add any body to the cider, but some do like them).

BTW the reason I work according to SG rather than amount of sugar (sucrose) needed, is that I use AJ to add sugar rather than a sugar/water solution (hence the P&N SG vs Sugar table rather than the common SG vs "sugar" tables where the "sugar" figure also includes everything in the juice like acids, tannins, etc. These can influence the SG by something like 20%).

For a bit of insight into what the sugar ferments into and how much you might need as well as other good stuff about yeast, bottles, sulphite, etc, Alex Simmens of LLanblethian Orchards in Wales has an excellent "Bottle Conditioned Cider Guide" on Google.

 

[jnesselrode]

Looking back at the Graham's recipe, it essentially takes a store bought juice and adds tannins and acid. Those two things are what are missing in store bought juice and give the cider more structure, balance, etc. The issue I have with Graham's is the nature of the additions: tea varies in tannin content, tea tea bags vary in size. The same goes with limes: size and acid can vary a lot.

So, is my more approach of using measured quantities of tannin and acid blend going to produce a better cider? I don't really know, but I think it is more 'scientific', can produce repeatable results and better allow for fine tuning results. Of course the starting juice makes the biggest difference: Tree Top in the Graham's recipe and I used a local cider (Louisburg Cider Mill, Kansas, USA). What I can say is the tannin and acid additions, which were much larger than I had done before, and based on research from here and elsewhere, made a remarkable difference in my results which all used the same starting juice.

 

[Chalkyt]

Getting terribly academic here... Attributed to Peter Ducker "if you can't measure it, you can't improve it" or the other version "if you can't measure it, it ain't real", IME certainly applies to making cider. Hence measuring and knowing the SG, TA, pH etc, etc, then adjusting them, certainly helps you make the cider that you want rather than what you get (and if it isn't right, tells you what to fix!).

Cheers!

 

[bernardsmith]

Two or three quick thoughts: what ABV are you aiming for? There is plenty of fermentable sugar in most commercial soft ciders (apple juice) to ferment dry to about 5-7% ABV THAT is what I would expect of a cider.
In my opinion, one of the better yeasts for fermenting apple juice is 71B. It has an affinity for malic acid, the dominant acid in apples and after 12 months of aging the flavor is transformed from duckling to swan.
Most commercially produced apple juice are low in acids, low in tannins. Bench test BEFORE bottling (AFTER fermentation hs fully ended) and see how much more acidity and tannin your hard cider may require.
If you WANT your cider to be more sweet in the bottle, You will need to stabilize the cider and then add sugar (perhaps 4 oz of table sugar in every gallon) but if you want a sparkling drink, you could do worse than add about 1/2 teaspoon of sugar to every beer (or Grolsch) bottle, WITH about 1/16 of a teaspoon of a champagne yeast. Champagne yeasts are cultured PRECISELY to transform a still (albeit higher alcohol) wine into a sparkling wine. They are not stressed when fermenting IN higher acidic alcohol solutions - AND even if you like a sweeter wine or cider, the CO2 in the glass, OFTEN totally compensates for the lack of perceived sweetness. It also completely upgrades the mouthfeel of the cider.
Last thought: if you enjoy hopped beers, you MIGHT consider doing some research into dry hopping. This is done when you add hops to the cider, AFTER fermentation has ended, and about 3-4 days before you plan to bottle. Your taste may be very different, but I find adding about 28g of hops to each gallon for three -four days and then racking off the hops is exactly what I am looking for.

 

[Maylar]

In my opinion, one of the better yeasts for fermenting apple juice is 71B. It has an affinity for malic acid, the dominant acid in apples and after 12 months of aging the flavor is transformed from duckling to swan.

Total BS in MY opinion. 71B makes flabby lifeless cider by eliminating malic acid and inhibiting formation of tannins.

 

[Climb]

@ Jeffery Fifield - I think understanding the concepts and developing plans for back sweetening and arresting fermentation would help you tremendously. If needed, you can learn more about these by searching in the Cider forum. Below are some suggestions that you might consider.
1. I like to back sweeten using frozen concentrated apple juice instead of more apple juice or sugar.
2. I arrest fermentation by either pasturizing if bottleing. Or if kegging, keeping the keg cold to keep the yeast in a dormant state.
Good luck!