Apple Ephemere Clone Attempt

[gpogo]

This is my first attempt at formulating a recipe, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

I figure Ephemere is essentially a Wit with Apple flavors.

Extract + Steeping grains
6.00 lb Wheat Liquid Extract [Boil for 15 min] Extract 70.59 %
1.00 lb Pilsner DME
1.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 11.76 %
0.50 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 5.88 %
1 gallon McIntosh Apple Juice Added into fermenter with wort after boil

Hops
0.25 oz Sorachi Ace [12.30 %] (60 min) Hops 9.1 IBU

Spices
0.75 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1.50 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc

Yeast
Wyeast 3463 Forbidden Fruit

After I week I plan on taking a gravity sample to see how it is tasting, if there isn't enough green apple flavor my plan is to copy BYO's Jolly Rancher Apple idea. Essentially I'll take a pack of green apple candies and cook them in some water on the stove. Once it is all liquified and cooled I will rack the beer on top of this and keg.

Any suggestions?

 

[big supper]

I've read that to make the most of the fruit flavor, you should add it to secondary instead.

 

[sonetlumiere85]

Yeah I would add the fruit juice to secondary, maybe even consider some crushed fruit - like what is used in apple pies.
Also why are you using sorachi ace? I understand that they're high AA and thus can be used in small quantities, but it would be far more authentic to use saaz, fuggles, or something like that with lower AA.

 

[CADragon]

so, did you ever go through with your recipe?

 

[Stormrider51]

I'm working on cloning Ephemere too. I started brewing about 6 years ago and have tried anything and everything that sounded good. I've come to especially like Belgian brews because of the "anything goes" attitude. When I discovered Ephemere I knew I had to clone it. I agree that it is basically a Belgian White with apples. With a little advice from Scott at Austin Homebrew I came up with the following recipe as a starting point:

1.25 lbs Belgian Pilsner, 1 lb White Wheat Malt, 0.5 lb Flaked Wheat

5 lbs Liquid Wheat Extract

1.5 oz Strissel Spalt Hops

0.5 oz crushed Coriander

0.5 oz Bitter Orange Peel

4.5 lbs Granny Smith Apples

White Labs Belgian Wit Ale yeast (WLP400)

The mini-mash steeping time is 45 minutes at about 155 F. Drain bag and sparge. Bring wort to boiling and add malt extract. Bring back to boil and add 1 oz Strissel Spalt hops. (Note: Boil is only 30 minutes.) At 15 minutes add Coriander and bitter orange peel. At 5 minutes remaining add 0.5 oz Strissel Spalt hops. Cool down, add water for 5.5 gal, pitch yeast, and seal it up.

I added the apples on Day 3 of primary fermentation. I peeled, cored, and diced the apples before putting them in a sturdy zip lock bag and partially freezing them. The partial freezing makes the next step easier. Crush the apple chunks, let them thaw completely, and add to the wort.

After primary and secondary time I kegged and force carbonated the beer. I ran out of the Scottish Ale that was occupying one half of my kegerator about a week later and the Ephemere clone took its place. In other words, I didn't give it a lot of ageing time!

Yesterday I filled a growler with the homebrew and bought a couple bottles of the real thing before heading off to the homebrew shop for a little comparison test. The consensus was that the real thing had more apple aroma and taste but my clone had more mouthfeel. All agreed that it was darned good beer. My wife said she likes my version better but then she is prejudiced.

I'm doing another batch today. All will be done the same until it comes to adding the apples. This time I will skip the freezing and crushing in favor of just making a puree in the food processor. I will also wait until I rack the beer over into the secondary before addig the apples. Wish me luck. :rockin:

John

 

[GermanBlood]

Stormrider - how did your last batch posted above turn out? I'm VERY curious as I've been searching for that "perfect" Ephemere clone... my family loves this beer so much we have been buying it by the case lately, after my failed Apfelwein attempt of cloning the beer... IMHO Apfelwein does not come close to Ephemere in depth and fullness of taste

 

[syd138]

When I was at 2 Brothers Brewery awhile back.. I talked to the brewer about how they make their Avalon Apple Ale.

What he told me is that they actually ferment the apple juice first using champaigne yeast (probably EC-1118) then ad it to the ale.

Have you thought about doing that? Ferment a couple gallons of apple juice using EC-1118 and then ad it in the secondary. This will give it a more profound apple taste. If you put it in the primary, the apple flavor will get lost.

 

[Stormrider51]

GermanBlood,
The second attempt didn't go well. Do NOT puree the apples! It tasted fine but I never got all the apple pulp out of it. Sorry I didn't respond sooner. I think I need to figure out how to get the website to notify me when replies are made.

John

 

[Damonic]

Agh... I'm hoping someone hits on a good recipe/process. My feeble attempt did NOT taste too good when it was racked.

 

[Stormrider51]

Damonic,
Try the recipe I posted above. It's darned close.

John

 

[GermanBlood]

Stormrider - just recently I racked to secondary your receipe above except with StephenWein yeast to make it a little different. I used a hand-crank tupperware food dicer to break the 4.5 lbs of apples into aprox 1cm cubes. Waiting now for it to come out of secondary. I also used a healthy amount of iodine cleansing. I will say though, don't do this in secondary if you're planning on putting chopped apples into the carboy. It took me almost 45 min just trying to get the little sticky apple chunks into the neck of the carboy. I will have to relook at possibly pitching at primary fermentation into the bucket to make it a lot easier. My version of brewing is always Keep It Simple Stupid... I'll let you know how it turns out...

 

[jjp36]

... StephenWein yeast to make it a little different.

I'm guessing you mean the weihenstephaner yeast (wyeast 3068)?
If so, the beer could probably still be good, but you'll be missing a lot of the Belgian characteristics that show up in Ephemere.

 

[zandrsn]

I'm working on cloning Ephemere too. I started brewing about 6 years ago and have tried anything and everything that sounded good. I've come to especially like Belgian brews because of the "anything goes" attitude. When I discovered Ephemere I knew I had to clone it. I agree that it is basically a Belgian White with apples. With a little advice from Scott at Austin Homebrew I came up with the following recipe as a starting point:

1.25 lbs Belgian Pilsner, 1 lb White Wheat Malt, 0.5 lb Flaked Wheat

5 lbs Liquid Wheat Extract

1.5 oz Strissel Spalt Hops

0.5 oz crushed Coriander

0.5 oz Bitter Orange Peel

4.5 lbs Granny Smith Apples

White Labs Belgian Wit Ale yeast (WLP400)

The mini-mash steeping time is 45 minutes at about 155 F. Drain bag and sparge. Bring wort to boiling and add malt extract. Bring back to boil and add 1 oz Strissel Spalt hops. (Note: Boil is only 30 minutes.) At 15 minutes add Coriander and bitter orange peel. At 5 minutes remaining add 0.5 oz Strissel Spalt hops. Cool down, add water for 5.5 gal, pitch yeast, and seal it up.

I added the apples on Day 3 of primary fermentation. I peeled, cored, and diced the apples before putting them in a sturdy zip lock bag and partially freezing them. The partial freezing makes the next step easier. Crush the apple chunks, let them thaw completely, and add to the wort.

After primary and secondary time I kegged and force carbonated the beer. I ran out of the Scottish Ale that was occupying one half of my kegerator about a week later and the Ephemere clone took its place. In other words, I didn't give it a lot of ageing time!

Yesterday I filled a growler with the homebrew and bought a couple bottles of the real thing before heading off to the homebrew shop for a little comparison test. The consensus was that the real thing had more apple aroma and taste but my clone had more mouthfeel. All agreed that it was darned good beer. My wife said she likes my version better but then she is prejudiced.

I'm doing another batch today. All will be done the same until it comes to adding the apples. This time I will skip the freezing and crushing in favor of just making a puree in the food processor. I will also wait until I rack the beer over into the secondary before addig the apples. Wish me luck. :rockin:

John

Hey Stormrider, I know this an old thread, but I was wondering what temp you fermented your ephemere clone at. Thanks!

 

[Stormrider51]

Belgian beers are normally brewed at room temp. That's what I do. My house is fairly well insulated and we maintain the temp at around 70 F in the winter and 76 F in the summer months. I really don't worry about it much since I never brew lagers. I've repeated the Ephemere clone several times and always liked it. I also did a variation where I replaced the Granny Smith apples with dried sour cherries and that one was a big hit with friends and family.

John

 

[zandrsn]

Great, thanks for the information. Looks like a great recipe!

 

[westerville]

The mini-mash steeping time is 45 minutes at about 155 F. Drain bag and sparge. Bring wort to boiling and add malt extract. Bring back to boil and add 1 oz Strissel Spalt hops. (Note: Boil is only 30 minutes.) At 15 minutes add Coriander and bitter orange peel. At 5 minutes remaining add 0.5 oz Strissel Spalt hops. Cool down, add water for 5.5 gal, pitch yeast, and seal it up.

I added the apples on Day 3 of primary fermentation. I peeled, cored, and diced the apples before putting them in a sturdy zip lock bag and partially freezing them. The partial freezing makes the next step easier. Crush the apple chunks, let them thaw completely, and add to the wort.

After primary and secondary time I kegged and force carbonated the beer. I ran out of the Scottish Ale that was occupying one half of my kegerator about a week later and the Ephemere clone took its place. In other words, I didn't give it a lot of ageing time!

Yesterday I filled a growler with the homebrew and bought a couple bottles of the real thing before heading off to the homebrew shop for a little comparison test. The consensus was that the real thing had more apple aroma and taste but my clone had more mouthfeel. All agreed that it was darned good beer. My wife said she likes my version better but then she is prejudiced.

I'm doing another batch today. All will be done the same until it comes to adding the apples. This time I will skip the freezing and crushing in favor of just making a puree in the food processor. I will also wait until I rack the beer over into the secondary before addig the apples. Wish me luck. :rockin:

John[/QUOTE]

have this in a primary right now and it smells good even without the apples. Figured I'd go two weeks in the primary but not sure how long to leave in secondary/on the apples? Thanks for posting.

 

[Stormrider51]

I consider primary fermentation over when the airlock is down to one bubble about every 30 seconds. I think you will find that the addition of the apples (or cherries or whatever fruit you decide to try) kicks off another round of fermentation. In every batch I've made the second fermentation, as judged by the bubbling rate in the airlock, is slower and lasts longer than the primary one. Once again, when the bubble rate gets down to about one every thirty seconds I go ahead and keg.

As sort of a side note, I could be completely wrong but it has never made sense to me to set some arbitrary amount of time for the wort/beer to remain in primary or secondary. I let the yeast tell me when they are done. If I have any doubt I use my wine thief to draw up enough beer to check the specific gravity. If it's where I expect it to be in the finished beer then I know I'm good to go. Otherwise the beer needs more time regardless of how slowly the bubbles are coming.

John

 

[westerville]

We are drinking this right now and it is awesome. Super drinkable and refreshing as hell. We racked out of the primary onto the apple chucks/peels and let sit for another two weeks. We used a large paint strainer bag to hold the apples in the secondary bucket. It makes clean up and kegging super easy. We are making another batch next week. Thanks again.

 

[theshoe82]

I am going to give this a shot when it gets a little warmer in my neck of the woods. My SWMBO loves Ephemere so this may go into the normal rotation.

 

[mcbethenstein]

Thread revival alert!!! I just tasted this beer and am in the process of making my clone attempt. I took my basic AG wit recipe, scaled back on my wit spicing and added in 1/2 T. chamomile, 1 t. candied ginger and of course the granny smith apples. I had 4 large organic apples and peeled them, saving the peels to add in when I threw my fresh Valencia orange zest in the boil, then juiced the apples, getting about 2 cups tart green apple juice that I treated and added to my cooled wort. I ended up under gravity (I always do for my wit recipe) and threw in a 12 oz apple juice concentrate as well. I am fermenting with WLP 410 Belgian wit II. I did just buy a 3 lb bag of granny smith apples to use the peels and juice from to add after primary fermentation is over. I will use my jack lalane juicer and then treat with a campden tablet and pectic enzyme. I'll be steeping the peelings in the beer as well. If all goes well I'll be serving at a homebrew fest in the end of October.

 

[runningweird]

Can't wait to hear your results

 

[Stormrider51]

Still one of my favorite brews although I haven't made it in a while. Might be next up on the list.

 

[bizarrojosh]

well, my apple trees have given me lots of apples this year and I think I might try this one out.

I may do two mini batches and try both fresh fruit and the fermented apple juice version to see how they come out. Thanks for all the tips yall!

 

[mcbethenstein]

Update: I ended up adding about 2 cups of granny smith juice at the start of fermentation, then about a quart of granny smith juice in "secondary" with the peelings of 3 of the apples that made the juice. I used campden & pectic enzyme for the juice and soaked the peels in vodka for a bit. I pulled the peels out after a week or two, and they were slimy with yeast clinging to them. The aroma after the secondary addition got a little weird... Almost pine-y. I moved to our cool basement and let it sit a while. Transferred to keg today and while the odd smell was there, the sample was great. Could pick out the wit characteristics and the apple/cider flavors.

 

[ronjonacron]

so for the sake of ease, I think I'm going to try a lazy man's version of this.
using this as my base for the wit:
Celis White:

4.5lb Belgian 2-row Pilsener malt
3lb US wheat malt
1.5lb flaked wheat
4oz Belgian aromatic malt
1lb rice or oat hulls

Mash at 149F for 90 min
Boil:
.75oz Wilamette @ 60 min
.5oz Wilamette @ 15 min
.75oz bitter orange peel @ 15 min
1tsp crushed corriander seed @ 15 min
.25oz Cascade @ 5 min
.5oz bitter orange peel @ 1 min
1tsp crushed corriander seed @ 1 min

Yeast:
Wyeast 3463 Forbidden Fruit

For the apple addition, to try some apple juice concentrate. This will be my first experiment with adding fruit (or in this case juice). I'm think I can throw a can of juice concentrate in the primary and then another one in the secondary. My only thought is that the apple flavor will ferment out completely. Can I i trust to get some flavor by using the concentrate juice stuff? or should i take the time and dice a few pounds of apples for the secondary? Or a combination or juice in the primary fruit in the secondary?

 

[Stormrider51]

The only suggestion I'd make it is to look closely at the amount of hops you are using. It takes surprisingly little bittering to completely overpower the apple flavor. I used Strissel Spalt hops for that very reason. The Granny Smith apples will impart a slightly bitter/sour taste. I'd also be hesitant to recommend apple juice because it will be sweet and will lack the tartness of the GS apples.

Storm

 

[MrChrisBlais]

I'm working on cloning Ephemere too. I started brewing about 6 years ago and have tried anything and everything that sounded good. I've come to especially like Belgian brews because of the "anything goes" attitude. When I discovered Ephemere I knew I had to clone it. I agree that it is basically a Belgian White with apples. With a little advice from Scott at Austin Homebrew I came up with the following recipe as a starting point:

1.25 lbs Belgian Pilsner, 1 lb White Wheat Malt, 0.5 lb Flaked Wheat

5 lbs Liquid Wheat Extract

1.5 oz Strissel Spalt Hops

0.5 oz crushed Coriander

0.5 oz Bitter Orange Peel

4.5 lbs Granny Smith Apples

White Labs Belgian Wit Ale yeast (WLP400)

The mini-mash steeping time is 45 minutes at about 155 F. Drain bag and sparge. Bring wort to boiling and add malt extract. Bring back to boil and add 1 oz Strissel Spalt hops. (Note: Boil is only 30 minutes.) At 15 minutes add Coriander and bitter orange peel. At 5 minutes remaining add 0.5 oz Strissel Spalt hops. Cool down, add water for 5.5 gal, pitch yeast, and seal it up.

I added the apples on Day 3 of primary fermentation. I peeled, cored, and diced the apples before putting them in a sturdy zip lock bag and partially freezing them. The partial freezing makes the next step easier. Crush the apple chunks, let them thaw completely, and add to the wort.

After primary and secondary time I kegged and force carbonated the beer. I ran out of the Scottish Ale that was occupying one half of my kegerator about a week later and the Ephemere clone took its place. In other words, I didn't give it a lot of ageing time!

Yesterday I filled a growler with the homebrew and bought a couple bottles of the real thing before heading off to the homebrew shop for a little comparison test. The consensus was that the real thing had more apple aroma and taste but my clone had more mouthfeel. All agreed that it was darned good beer. My wife said she likes my version better but then she is prejudiced.

I'm doing another batch today. All will be done the same until it comes to adding the apples. This time I will skip the freezing and crushing in favor of just making a puree in the food processor. I will also wait until I rack the beer over into the secondary before addig the apples. Wish me luck. :rockin:

John

I know this is an older post, but, I figured I'd try just the same.

Is this for recipe for 5 gallons of beer? How many gallons of water for mash and pre-boil?

Forgive me, I'm new.
Unibroue is one of may favorite breweries and I would love to be able to successfully reproduce their offerings. Ephemere has been release in a variety of flavours such as apple, blueberry, pear, cranberry, cherry and a couple of others that I can't think of off the top of my head.

Would the base be pretty much the same and then just change up the fruit in secondary?