apfelwein still cloudy

[bandit77]

I made a batch of apfelwein with brown sugar about 4 months ago...I let it sit for about a month and transford into a secondary carboy. At this point it was somewhat clear but not to my liking...so I added 1 tbs of potassium metabisulphite (same a campden tablet just in a powder form) to kill the yeast and added gelatine to clear it more. I thought a week should do it used gelatine before for my beer but never with potassium metabisulphite...a week later it got worse... waited another week no better...yeast is still active.

So I went to a local wine shop and ask what she use...she told me to add another big tablespoon full of potassium metabisulphite and gave me a two part clearing product...2 week later cleared it a bit but still very cloudy.

So I'm thinking of boiling or freezing...what do you guy think?

and please let know how I should go about boiling...what temp to kill the yeast, double boiler, etc.


thanks

 

[Yooper]

I honestly hope you didn't use a tablespoon (or even a teaspoon) of k-meta. I think the dosage is more like 1/4 tsp for 5 gallons!

The yeast is surely done. I'd rack it to a new carboy (and splash rack it if you really have put two tablespoons of k-meta in there) and then just let it sit. You've added a ton of chemicals in there, and I'd just leave it alone for at least a couple of months.

After that, you could stick it in the fridge (take the airlock off and replace with a solid bung) and that should work.

 

[bandit77]

On the box it says to sterilize must you dissolve 1/4 teaspoon into 4 litre of must...4 litre is about 1 gal. so it's about 1 & 1/4 teaspoon I did 2 dose like that... sorry not 2 tablespoon... that was about a month ago you would think that their would be no activity in the airlock or maybe it just excess co2 in the carboy...and also you think it would have cleared out by now... Why did it get more couldy?

By the way thanks alot for the help...

 

[Edcculus]

Was the juice you started out with cloudy? If so, you may not be able to clear it without pectic enzyme.

 

[Yooper]

Chemicals change the structure of the cider, so that could cause some cloudiness. K-meta is NOT a clearing agent, do don't add any more! It's an antioxidant and preservative and too much will make the cider taste sulfury for a long time.

Ed is right- a teaspoon of pectic enzyme might help quite a bit. If you ever boiled the juice, though, it'll never clear. At this point, I'd go ahead and add the pectic enzyme, but nothing else! You've got positively charged particles in there, and negatively charged particles in there already because of the finings of different types. Each time you add things, it changes the cider.

So, add the pectic enzyme and walk away for a month. You can rack it before that, to get rid of some of the excess sulfites. I'd dissolve the pectic enzyme in a little of the cider, and then putting that into a new carboy. Then splash rack the cider into it. That might help some of that sulfite disipate. After a month, put it in the fridge if it's still not clear.

 

[Edcculus]

Honestly, I'd be inclined to do nothing. Recently, I've seen a lot of people mistakenly dumping a ton of k-meta/campden in to knock out what they assume is yeast. Really, after 4 months, there shouldn't be enough yeast in suspension to make the cider appreciably cloudy unless you move it, or shake it up a lot.

I have a cider now that is not clear. Not the end of the world. I used organic juice from Whole Foods, which apparently has had the pectin set from pasteurization. I forgot to add enzyme, and even after a month in the keg at ~40F, its still not clear. No big deal every once and a while.

 

[bandit77]

The only reason I used k-meta was not to clear but wanted to put more consentrated jus when I was going to keg it...my jus was clear (just store bought apple jus canned).

Yooper... I was wouldering the same thing if I had a chemical reaction with the cider gelatine and k-meta... screw it I'm just going to rack into another carboy...beside got another 5 gal of apfelwein that clear itself nicely...now if I keg it and added apple jus concentrate will the little amount of yeast in suspention will reactivate a fermentation? Will just the ascorbic acid in the concentrate be enought to kill off the yeast? don't want to and any k-meta to this batch.

Thanks again

 

[Edcculus]

If you are using store bought apple juice, whether its Mott's or Whole Foods, you will not need to use k-meta. The stuff you buy on the shelves is pasteurized. Most cider mills are even required to pasteurize.

 

[Yooper]

On the box it says to sterilize must you dissolve 1/4 teaspoon into 4 litre of must...4 litre is about 1 gal. so it's about 1 & 1/4 teaspoon I did 2 dose like that... sorry not 2 tablespoon... that was about a month ago you would think that their would be no activity in the airlock or maybe it just excess co2 in the carboy...and also you think it would have cleared out by now... Why did it get more couldy?

By the way thanks alot for the help...

You added 1/4 teaspoon twice? Even that's a lot, but if it's more like 1 1/4 teaspoons twice that's a boatload. About 10 times what you need. Don't follow those directions any more! You'll oversulfite your cider to such an extent it'll be undrinkable for years. You're not "sanitizing" at this point, you're stabilizing. You only want about 50 ppm of sulfite, and you've definitely got WAY more than that. A typical "dose" is 1/4 teaspoon per 6 gallons, not per 4L.

Anyway, the best course right now is just to wait it out. If you absolutely, positively have to do something ,you can "splash rack". That means racking to a new sanitized container and letting it splash a bit. That's usually a huge no-no, but you might want to get rid of some of the so2 in the cider. You can add pectic enzyme at that time if you want. Then just wait some more.

 

[Yooper]

The only reason I used k-meta was not to clear but wanted to put more consentrated jus when I was going to keg it...my jus was clear (just store bought apple jus canned).

Yooper... I was wouldering the same thing if I had a chemical reaction with the cider gelatine and k-meta... screw it I'm just going to rack into another carboy...beside got another 5 gal of apfelwein that clear itself nicely...now if I keg it and added apple jus concentrate will the little amount of yeast in suspention will reactivate a fermentation? Will just the ascorbic acid in the concentrate be enought to kill off the yeast? don't want to and any k-meta to this batch.

Thanks again

I don't think it'll be very drinkable right now with all that k-meta. I would wait. I wouldn't worry about killing off the yeast, or anything else right now. Yeast aren't killed by k-meta anyway, but maybe in such a huge dose it might have stunned them quite a bit. When the cider is done, if you want to inhibit re-fermentation, you can add a bit of potassium SORBATE, not sulfite. That will probably cloud the cider again, but it'll stop the yeast from reproducing.

 

[Frank_The_Magic_Hobo]

The directions on that package aren't what you want to follow.

Those amounts are for making a sterilizing solution in water, to sterilize tools with, not to put in the must! I'm pretty sure that's the problem anyways. I've bought 2 different kinds of k-meta, one said 1/4tsp for 4L (as sanitizer) the other said 1/4tsp for 23L/6 gallons (to put into the must).

Do what these guys have said, but if it doesn't work out in the end, is a cloudy cider that terrible? If the pectins are set and it wont clear, it isn't going to ruin the flavor. Back in the day, just about all cider was cloudy, and nobody cared.

 

[bandit77]

Thanks for all the help.

Later