Anyone Use WLP693 - L Plantarum for kettle souring?

[Morrey]

My LHBS has WLP693 (seasonal release) in stock and suggested other folks that have used it for kettle souring have given good reviews.

I frequently use OYL-605 but he doesn't carry that line of product. I could order it online, but with blistering heat at 100F, I am skeptical of shipping. I have used L Plantarum caps and yogurt, but none have performed as fast and gotten my ph down to 3.20 like OYL-605.

My hope is to hear from someone that may have used both WLP693 and OYL-605 that can make a comparison. Thanks!

 

[newtobrew1981]

Anything with plantarum is good for kettle souring. And I agree oyl605 is very fast I got mine down to 3.1 in 36 hours.

 

[newtobrew1981]

Personally I wouldn't bother with wlp693 cause white labs is known for contaminated bacteria cultures. Unless you want to ferment your wort [emoji39]

 

[Morrey]

Personally I wouldn't bother with wlp693 cause white labs is known for contaminated bacteria cultures. Unless you want to ferment your wort [emoji39]

I was afraid that I'd hear this about White Labs. Omega seems to have their act together.

 

[Morrey]

Personally I wouldn't bother with wlp693 cause white labs is known for contaminated bacteria cultures. Unless you want to ferment your wort [emoji39]

Well, I know all too well where you are coming from as I personally had a bad experience with a product from White Labs that must have been cross contaminated like you said. I had a period of time I felt anti-White Labs, but slowly gravitated back to them since my LHBS uses WL and not many other liquid yeast producers.

I ended up getting the WLP693 since I already had my LHBS take the 2 vials out of stock and charge them to me. I made a starter with the L Plantarum and got no attenuation due to yeast infection in the lacto. When I kettle soured I lost 2 gravity points when souring, but this is pretty normal for what I have seen with L Plantarum. All seems ok with this batch so I am hoping for the best in the future.

 

[couchsending]

I’ve had half a carton of Mango Good Belly at 95 get to 3.4ph in under 24 hours. Personally for kettle souring I see no reason to pay for a lacto culture from a lab when you can run to the grocery store for that stuff. I’m sure it would get lower, I just didn’t want anything below 3.4.

 

[Morrey]

I’ve had half a carton of Mango Good Belly Good Belly at 95 get to 3.4ph in under 24 hours. Personally for kettle souring I see no reason to pay for a lacto culture from a lab when you can run to the grocery store for that stuff. I’m sure it would get lower, I just didn’t want anything below 3.4.

I wish we had that product here in SC, but I don't think I've seen it in the southeast. May be in some of the bigger cities but smaller markets are limited.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I use RenewLife Ultimate Flora probiotic. It's a blend with L. plantarum and it sours at room temp and gives great flavor (notes of lemon, melon, berries, peach). I see it in most drug stores and supermarkets.

...Unless I'm mistaken, the Swansons Lacto didn't work well for you because they were stored improperly for over a year? I think if you gave them a fighting chance you wouldn't be disappointed.

 

[Morrey]

I use RenewLife Ultimate Flora probiotic. It's a blend with L. plantarum and it sours at room temp and gives great flavor (notes of lemon, melon, berries, peach). I see it in most drug stores and supermarkets.

...Unless I'm mistaken, the Swansons Lacto didn't work well for you because they were stored improperly for over a year? I think if you gave them a fighting chance you wouldn't be disappointed.

Yeah, I ordered some fresh new caps from Swanson and they came in last week. I have them in the fridge and for sure will take the time to build a starter with them. Last time around I took a rather "assuming" approach with the kettle souring process and it cost me. Since I had WLP693 saved back at the LHBS and hated to back out on my promise, I told him to go ahead and put it on my tab. Agreed, I'll do the Swanson Caps the right way next time and make a better effort to do it right.

I like the flavor description you mentioned. Someone asked me to describe the nose on properly soured L Plantarum starter wort, and I like to describe the flavor and aroma similar to an Arnold Palmer lemonade and iced tea beverage. A bit sweet, a bit lemony with a hint of fruit…..just like your description.

 

[leesmith]

I really don’t think you need to make a starter with the Swanson’s. Being my method is different (I sour in the fermenter) and I don’t kill the lacto...maybe that’s why. I recommend this simple approach. My wife likes them real sour and this does the trick.

http://www.laundrybrewing.com/2017/02/mosaic-quick-sour.html

 

[bierhaus15]

Just a thought, but most L. plantarum comes from the same production facilities; the stuff in your yogurt drink is often the same stuff sold to cheese makers, dairy farmers, supplement makers, ect.

If you want to go rouge, you can buy L. plantarum silage inoculatant for cheap. 100% L. plantarum powder, or sometimes on a carbon medium. Either way, 1 gram in 5 gallons of wort can be upwards of 500 billion CFU's... full kettle souring in less than 24 hours. Tastes just like the expensive pitchable, but often cleaner due to the shorter souring time.

 

[RPh_Guy]

you can buy L. plantarum silage inoculatant for cheap.

Link?

I have a hard time finding what species are in different yogurts. Do you have a list of L. plantarum yogurts?

I though Swansons is already incredibly cheap. If you're saying that's expensive I'm wondering what you're paying.

 

[Morrey]

full kettle souring in less than 24 hours.

Do you have a source? RPh_Guy asked too and I'd be interested as well. I'd love to be able to pitch the lacto one day and send the beer to the FV next so it could all be done on the weekend. 24 hours is awesome!

 

[RPh_Guy]

I'd love to be able to pitch the lacto one day and send the beer to the FV next so it could all be done on the weekend. 24 hours is awesome!

My last 5.5 gal batch dropped from 4.45 (pre-acidified) to 3.43 in 24 hours in the 80s to 90s. Made a buffered 500mL starter 4-5 days incubated at room temp with occasional swirling. I could tell it wasn't finished when I pitched it.

At 98F and with a bigger starter and/or warmer incubation or letting it go longer I think L. plantarum bottoms out in 24hrs readily.

If you're not overly concerned with Lacto on your equipment, letting them live is a good method too!

 

[bierhaus15]

I've not bought silage inoculant personally, but I know brewers who have and get it from farm supply stores. A certain large brewery was looking into something similar and had an off the shelf 100% plantarum product lined up for large scale souring, it was $25 for 50 lbs or something similar. That's a lifetime supply for every home brewer in your city. In the end they smartly decided to not use the product as the public's reaction to using silage bacteria, should they find out, would not be too positive. I can say that said bacteria made a superb tasting kettle soured berliner tho.

That said, I have used freeze dried lacto and brevis in a professional context, both around 500 billion CFU per gram. When all you need is 1 kilo of freeze dried bacteria to kettle sour 1,000 gallons of wort in 18 hours, you're on to something. The acid production is very fast and as a result you don't get any of the vegetal or cabbage-y flavors that develop with slow souring. It's just pure bright lemon-y sourness. Never having to make starters is a plus.

 

[Tozzi]

I've used 5 capsules of Swanson Plantarum in a 3 liter (3 quarts) starter with 10% Apple Juice and some CaCO3, which I had sitting unstirred for 3 days at 25˚C (77F).
I pitched that (minus the CaCO3 sediment) into the Speidel BM50 (14,5 Gallons) and kept it at 35˚C (95F) for 18 hours.
pH had already dropped from 4,5 (pre-acidified using malic acid) to 3,4, which was exactly my target.
The wort tasted very clean, with a hint of fruit. No noticeable drop in gravity.
I can highly recommend this method...