Anyone have a Stout Tank Mash tun and can comment on efficiency?

[homebrewdude76]

For 10+ years I used various converted coolers with DIY manifolds.
Some were screens and others drilled PVC.
I did mostly batch sparge and had a generic efficiency of 72%
A little lower on the bigger beers.

I now have a Stout Tank 20gal mash tun with the Stout perforated screen.
I constant recirculate through a RIMS tube.
I am trying to fly sparge, but I think it is going too quick to call it that.
I am around 65% efficiency. Sometimes less.

I figured I would be better due to the full mash screen and the constant circulation. I do have much clearer wort going into the kettle.

Could the 1gal of worst under the screen and additional wort for RIMS throw me off? I have to increase the water/grain ratio due to this.
A quick fly sparge cause an issue? I might go back to batch sparging.
Last brew I measured mash pH and I was on target.

Any other suggestions?

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

Its likely not the Mash Tun. There are a few guys here that have them and they likely have good efficiency. OrangeHero had a stout setup. he can probably comment on it.

When you fly sparge, here are a few questions:
1. Mash: Do you stir the mash at the beginning?
2. Pre-mashout: Do you stir the mash at the end and let it clear again before running off?
3. For a 5 gal batch you should be around a 45 minute mash out, 10 gal 1hr- 1.5hrs.
4. Are you measuring your first running's and running off till you get to your desired pre-boil volume, making sure to stop sparging before 1.012?


Lastly, check your grain size. It could be too course. The equipment is not at fault here. Sounds like process.

 

[homebrewdude76]

I stir the mash and make sure no dough balls. Stir again 30min in and stir again 10min before mash out.

I sparged this 10gal batch in 30min. (I dont want to add more time to brew day, maybe I need to go back to batch sparging)

On the last batch I was 1.026 when the preboil volume was correct. I continued to sparge, then boiled 2 hours to compensate. (I can obtain a rather aggressive boil rate)

 

[homebrewdude76]

4 batches of grains from 4 different sources. I dont crush my own grain.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

30 gallon bottom drain mlt in a eherms configuration. 90+% kettle efficiency. Crush with mm2-2.0 set at .034" gap, hardened rollers spinning at 175 rpm via gear reduction and tefc motor.

Underlet to start, stir the grain to check for any dough balls (don't usually get any), then recirculate for an hour and ramp to mashout and hold at 168 for 10 min. Fly sparge to desired volume in kettle. Sparge takes 30-40 min.

I brew 10 and 15 gallon batches.

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

30 gallon bottom drain mlt in a eherms configuration. 90+% kettle efficiency. Crush with mm2-2.0 set at .034" gap, hardened rollers spinning at 175 rpm via gear reduction and tefc motor.

Underlet to start, stir the grain to check for any dough balls (don't usually get any), then recirculate for an hour and ramp to mashout and hold at 168 for 10 min. Fly sparge to desired volume in kettle. Sparge takes 30-40 min.

I brew 10 and 15 gallon batches.

I've never experienced dough balls when underletting. Its been the greatest improvement in my process since I saw Tony Yates do it on his setup. No dough balls, and my wort is always crystal clear going into the boil kettle.

I would first check your crush. It sounds like there is something going on there. Also I know this is dumb but did you verify that your hydrometer is accurate?

 

[homebrewdude76]

Well 4 different sources of grinding with the same results. I used a hydrometer and refractometer on the last brew to check each other.

I wonder if it is my bad fly sparging?

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

You should check your gravity of what would be your first runnings. See where that is. If its not where it needs to be then it has to be your grain, unless of course your thermometer is suspect. Fly sparging for 10 gallons should be over 1 hour long in my opinion.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

You should check your gravity of what would be your first runnings. See where that is. If its not where it needs to be then it has to be your grain, unless of course your thermometer is suspect. Fly sparging for 10 gallons should be over 1 hour long in my opinion.

Sparge technique probably contributes to the issue here but sparge length is just an opinion... I used to sparge for over an hour and then did some testing and tried some 30 minute sparge sessions on the same beers. No change in my efficiency so I skipped the 30+ minutes of time that didn't net any better beer.

Checking first runnings is a good idea. As is verfying the accuracy of thermometers and volume measurements.

 

[homebrewdude76]

You should check your gravity of what would be your first runnings. See where that is. If its not where it needs to be then it has to be your grain, unless of course your thermometer is suspect. Fly sparging for 10 gallons should be over 1 hour long in my opinion.

I have never done this. How would I determine what gravity the first runnings should be? I am assuming my runnings being high when I am at boil volume shows my sparge is not efficient?

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

So you can check the total potential of what grains you have in your mash tun by putting them into this calculator:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/

How I use it is as follows for my first runnings. I pretend I'm batch sparging. I take my mash in volume, so Lets say 10 gal of water. At the end of my mash, i take a gravity reading.
So... for my last brew that I did, here is what I had:

24.5lbs of UK 2 Row Pale
2lbs Munich Dark
2lbs C40
1lbs C120
.5lbs UK Pale Chocolate.

I put that into the calculator and it tells me that 100% efficiency with those malts would have the potential gravity of 1.110
I measure my Wort gravity by a refractometer and saw a gravity of 1.075.
The calculator takes that info and tells me that I saw a 68.46% mash efficiency. Yeah not super great right? Thats likely because of two factors... 1 I did not stir it at the end of the mash and I think my grind was not fine enough.

This tells me a few things. One if I was smart at the time I would have lengthened my mash and stirred a couple times to potentially raise that gravity. Two, my LHBS needs to tighten the gap on their mill.

So now I take that gravity and jot it down. I then Mash out and sparge until I hit my required volume and no matter what stop if my running's get to 1.012 as I don't want any astringency in my finished product. I then check my pre-boil gravity and see where it ends up. If the pre-boil lines up with my estimated pre-boil based on the same calculator, then I know that I'm going to hit my target post boil. If its a little low, I know to boil a bit longer, if I'm higher, I may decide to water it down a bit.

All the calcualtors on Brewers Friend are really helpful for me. Ever since I started using them, I've basically hit my numbers every time or are within 2 points.

 

[homebrewdude76]

I brewed two batches on Sat. Both were close to 70%.
And I batch sparged them both.

So looks like I am just a batch sparge person

 

[ryanryates]

I have a 20 gal Stout Mash run and couldn't be happier. Automated rims system and fly sparge. 80%+ Everytime.

 

[ryanryates]

Also, +1 on the previous comment about using a good mill - a properly dialed in grist will boost efficiency

 

[homebrewdude76]

I have a 20 gal Stout Mash run and couldn't be happier. Automated rims system and fly sparge. 80%+ Everytime.

What are you using for a sparge arm?

 

[ryanryates]

What are you using for a sparge arm?

About a 4' piece of silicone tubing. I've used fancier sparge arms and they are a waste of time/money IMHO.

 

[homebrewdude76]

I have been using hose also, but it flops around and don't want to get burned/splashed. I have some locline now.

 

[mongoose33]

You say you are trying to fly sparge but you think it's going to quickly for that. Might the speed with which you are sparging be producing channels in your mash so it's not rinsing the entire mash bed evenly?