Anyone haerd of these new Yeasts from Mangrove Jack's (New Zealand)

[ghpeel]

Here's my info:

M44 West Coast Strain: in a Pale Ale, 74% AA, did not like this beer, weird off flavor, not sure if its yeast related

Newcastle Strain: in a Mild Ale, 66% AA, loved the beer!

M10 Workhorse Strain: in a Cream Ale, ??? AA (beer got stuck at 1.020, used Amylase Enzyme), beer was pretty good but it took a while

 

[JKaranka]

Btw, I've not tried Windsor yet, how does it compare to Newcastle? Looking for low attenuation yeasts

 

[Gar]

i used the cider one last year came out ok

 

[highgravitybacon]

Btw, I've not tried Windsor yet, how does it compare to Newcastle? Looking for low attenuation yeasts

Never used Newcastle, but Windsor (to keep it brief since there are many Windsor threads) is kind of interesting. It makes an okay beer, fermenting out in maybe 1-3 days and attenuation is low (e.g. 55-60%). You can turn a beer around in under a week with Windsor. It's sort of a generic british ester profile. Nothing profound, nothing awesome. But okay.

 

[ssgmooney]

Tried the cider and BELGIAN YEASTS. Both came out great.

 

[stpug]

I think that Newcastle / US05 combo sounds good. For what its worth, I had the West Coast start fermenting in 12 hours. The recipe had 2 pounds flaked maize and 4 pounds of each maris otter and lager malt. Had a protein rest and two mashes, the first low and the second high (62c and 68c). Maybe the simple sugars helped it out.

After using Newcastle three times I will say that, what it DOES ferment, it does QUICK! Each time I've seen the fermenter temp start dropping after 36 hours from pitch, and it generally doesn't ferment much more than that. Factoring in lag time of ~12 hours, that's only about 24 hours of active fermentation.

This last time (about 40 hours into fermentation right now) is the ESB using the blend of Newcastle/US05 (~75/25%, respectively). As expected, the temp started dropping this morning but considering that US05 doesn't "go to sleep" like Newcastle, I expect that it'll slowly plug along for another day or two before the cells simply peter out. I'm excited to see what kind of AA I get with this. I'm hoping for around 72-74%. Much less and I'd have a hard time saying the US05 helped much; much more and I'd be bummed that US05 took it too far. I might grab a gravity reading tomorrow and find out where it's sitting, and if it's where I want it then I'll bring the temp down slowly and see if I can get the US05 to settle down. We'll see. I may just leave it and find out the end result instead in a week or more.

 

[crispbrew]

I just bottle a porter with the Newcastle and got 65% attenuation with it. I had a high mash temp 155 expecting to keep the FG high but was not expecting it to be 1.026... just to reiterate what every one else is saying, plan ahead for a higher than expected FG. This is going to be one sweet porter. OG was 1.074

 

[codedognz]

Oh, and this cider yeast:

http://mangrovejacks.com/products/craft-series-cider-yeast

I'm just checking out our options for cider at the moment. Did you give the cider yeast a try?

 

[TrickyDick]

I think you may have the yeast you're looking for then. I have just done an ESB with the Burton Union. Subtle but definitely present esthers.

We're moving into winter here so temps are lower than than the mid range recomended and that may also have affected it. It was also quite slow, but attenuated well.

Planning a double Brew-Day next Saturday, plus a third brew on Sunday If I can get my starter going in time.

I've used M07 before and had good results in a "Enjoy By" style Double IPA. Very good attenuation. 1.089 to 1.010. Great flocculation as well.

Want to brew with the Burton Union strain and do a English style IPA. How did you like the yeast performance, and can you include any details about your brew?

Also want to do a Irish Red ale with the Workhorse yeast, but do not want any Saison type flavors. Thought someone earlier posted that they had thought this was a saison strain. Then again another posted about making a great cream ale with this strain.

Thanks for any feedback.

TD

 

[stpug]

I personally think that the Burton union yeast is the best of their lot. Distinct yeast characteristics and excellent attenuation (75%ish without checking my notes). I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it for an English IPA but would suggest pairing with earthy and/or spicy hops.

 

[brian_n]

Thought I'd share this info that I got straight from the source... according their detailed pdf ( http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0195/8620/files/MJ_Craft_Series__A5_Yeast_Booklet.pdf?1935 ) their packets only contain greater than 50B cells, which seems awfully low for a dry yeast packet. So, I emailed them about it, and below is their response. Maybe they're just being conservative?

"That is the strain of yeast of that requires the most amount of yeast (apart from our lager strain). 50B cells is our best estimate.

I have found that if it is a pale ale of 1.050-1.055 2 packets should be fine for 4 Gallons/20L. 3 packets if over say 1.060. It is a high pitching rate but it is worth it. The higher pitching rate creates a cleaner, better attenuated beer than other US Ale yeasts.

Cheers,
Andrew Childs
The Beer Man
Mangrove Jack’s"

 

[TrickyDick]

Well that is informative.

Highly disappointed.

How the heck do they expect us to achieve proper pitch rates without this information? It might explain poor attenuation by some strains due to under pitching? I have a 10.5 gallon batch of 1.052 pale ale into which I pitched 3 packages of their union burton strain. It finished primary yesterday per airlock, though it have yet to measure gravity. I would've simply bought more if I had known.

Any information about the manufacturing/packaging dates?

TD


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[brian_n]

I pitched 2 packets of their West Coast yeast into 5 gals of a 1.058 pale ale. 10 oz caramel malt, no cara-pils, 150 mash temp, and it was down to 1.009 in 5 days. So, 2 packets is certainly adequate.

That said, it's more expensive than US-05 and requires 2 packets, so I doubt I'll use this strain it again.

 

[TrickyDick]

Well for me, the results are in.

I am somewhat disappointed.

I have previously used their English strain that is supposed to be like WLP007, and it worked very very well for me. I pitched enough packs to achieve proper rate, assuming approx 200 billion cells per pack, and I ended up needing like 718 billion cells so I simply used four packs. I realize that I did not take appropriate OG/FG measurements on this brew with a final OG prior to pitching, but I have a good ballpark, and it attenuated well, without consulting my logs.

Next up was a English IPA with OG 1.055. I pitched 3 packs of their Burton Union and I only hit 1.018. Now there is some discrepancy between the hydro readings and the refractometer (adjusted), might be 1-2 points HIGHER. I split the difference erring a point higher. Beer was not entirely de-carbonated. Anyways, its nowhere near where it should be and tastes slightly sweet. If I end up hating it, I'll pitch a bit of Brett Trois and let it ride. I think this might have been a result of underpitching without even realizing it. Knowledge is power. Next time I'll pitch more. Thanks for whoever posted the link to the data about cell counts.

TD

 

[beersk]

Well, the 50B cells per packet would certainly explain all the under attenuation I've dealt with. I had one packet left of the West Coast IPA and decided to use that for a pale ale a week and a half ago. I pitched one packet into 4 gallons of 1.054 wort. I really hope it dries out. This will likely be my last use of Panama Jack's yeast. Their yeast has just been a major let down. I have been using liquid yeast, but if I need an ale yeast for a spontaneous brew session, I'll use US-05.

 

[highgravitybacon]

Well, the 50B cells per packet would certainly explain all the under attenuation I've dealt with. I had one packet left of the West Coast IPA and decided to use that for a pale ale a week and a half ago. I pitched one packet into 4 gallons of 1.054 wort. I really hope it dries out. This will likely be my last use of Panama Jack's yeast. Their yeast has just been a major let down. I have been using liquid yeast, but if I need an ale yeast for a spontaneous brew session, I'll use US-05.

The manufacturer told me 200 billion cells per pack.

 

[TrickyDick]

The manufacturer told me 200 billion cells per pack.

Wonder how that jives with post 221 at the top of the page linking to the pdf that states to contrary...

TD

 

[milldoggy]

5x 10^9 per gram = 50 bil per packet

 

[beersk]

5x 10^9 per gram = 50 bil per packet

= not enough and LAME.

How is there 10g of yeast and only half the yeast cells that are normally in an 11.5g packet of US-05? How many yeast cells are in a packet of US-05 anyway?

 

[stpug]

For comparative purposes, us05 and notty also specify a super low minimum cell count in their literature (in the 50-60 billion range), but homebrewer cell counts have shown the actual to be closer to 200 billion.

 

[816North]

Wonder how that jives with post 221 at the top of the page linking to the pdf that states to contrary...

TD

You're arbitarily putting more value on a random PDF, vs what the support people actually said. If you read that it was 200 billion in a PDF but when you specifically spoke with someone who works with the company, would you believe the 50 billion? And do please note the presence of the > sign on the 50 billion in the PDF so 50 billion is the MINIMUM. So that goes jive quite well I think.
---
Here's the actual conversation:
What is the cell count in billions per 10g sachet of the M07 yeast?
June 9th, 3:34pm
Hi, 2 x 10 to the power of 10 yeast cell per gram of product
200 billion per pack?
June 9th, 6:47pm
No sorry it is 20 billion yeast cells per gram
Ok. Is that consistent across the product line? E.g. do the other strains have similar density? I am trying to figure for proper pitch and starters, hence my inquiry.
June 10th, 3:51pm
yes, its the same number across all MJ craft series yeasts
--

 

[beersk]

I checked the gravity on my pale ale I fermented with West Coast IPA yeast. 4 gallons of 1.054 wort, came down to 1.009 with 1 packet pitched and very little aeration. This rather surprises me. Oh well, I'll take it. I think I'll harvest the yeast and use it for an IPA in a couple weeks.

So it is 200 billion cells per pack? If it's 20 billion per gram and there's 10 grams in a pack...

 

[roastquake]

I know that the Bohemian Lager strain has already been touched on in this thread, but I'll just report my experience:

One week passed before I saw any sign fermentation, and that's just because I took a gravity reading showing that my small Vienna-style lager had come down from 1.036 to 1.028. I shook the fermenter, and in the next two days, it took off big-time. It looked like an ale fermentation even though the wort temp was 54 degrees. Biggest krausen I've seen on a lager so far, yet the longest lag time I've ever seen, period. I'm not worried though. Looks good, smells good, must be good!

 

[RCCOLA]

I used the Bohemian Lager strain on multiple batches with the first one being direct pitched at 50F, the rest re-pitched from harvested yeast.

The statement about the packs being 50b cells makes sense. The first batch (2 new rehydrated packs) would not start fermenting at 50F. The re-pitched batches started up quickly being pitched at 50F.

That told me there was nothing wrong with the yeast fermenting at cooler temps, just that the initial cell count was too low to pitch cold.

 

[aidan]

163 hours and the MJ M84 has finally started working. High krausen at 184 hours. It's really going to be interesting to see how these two turn out. I'm really glad I decided to wait on the re-pitch. At least now I can see what flavor differences there are.
I won't use this yeast again due to it's lag time, but it's turning out to be an interesting experiment to say the least.

Digging up an old thread here but how did the lager brewed with Mangrove Jacks M84 turn out in the end? and how did it compare to the one you did with Saflager 34/70? I have a pkt of M84 sitting here waiting to be used and I've been searching through the forum looking for other's experience with it. Wonder if there was any ill effect from the exceptionally long lag time. What temp did your pitch at and start fermentation at? Did you use 1pk or 2 and did you re-hydrate the yeast and aerate or oxygenate the wort?

 

[mblanks2]

Digging up an old thread here but how did the lager brewed with Mangrove Jacks M84 turn out in the end? and how did it compare to the one you did with Saflager 34/70? I have a pkt of M84 sitting here waiting to be used and I've been searching through the forum looking for other's experience with it. Wonder if there was any ill effect from the exceptionally long lag time. What temp did your pitch at and start fermentation at? Did you use 1pk or 2 and did you re-hydrate the yeast and aerate or oxygenate the wort?

The M84 turned out to be beer but it was very sweet in comparison to the 34/70. I don't think I would plan to use it again. The 34/70 is a Weihenstephan strain and was great for the lager I brewed. I use it quite frequently. I am planning a split batch with it and S-23 soon.
I used 2 packets for 5.5 gallons and I always re-hydrate my yeast whether ale or lager if using dry form. I ferment at 52*F for lagers and at 10 days I start a D-rest for 3 - 4 days. Then I lager for 30 - 60 days depending on my schedule.
My biggest concern was that with that length of lag time there was too much opportunity for infection to set in. I was lucky that it didn't.
If I were to try it again I might consider starting at 55*F to see if the lag was decreased but I'm very happy with 34/70 and after that batch I threw 4 packets of M-84 in the garbage.

 

[aidan]

The M84 turned out to be beer but it was very sweet in comparison to the 34/70. I don't think I would plan to use it again. The 34/70 is a Weihenstephan strain and was great for the lager I brewed. I use it quite frequently. I am planning a split batch with it and S-23 soon.
I used 2 packets for 5.5 gallons and I always re-hydrate my yeast whether ale or lager if using dry form. I ferment at 52*F for lagers and at 10 days I start a D-rest for 3 - 4 days. Then I lager for 30 - 60 days depending on my schedule.
My biggest concern was that with that length of lag time there was too much opportunity for infection to set in. I was lucky that it didn't.
If I were to try it again I might consider starting at 55*F to see if the lag was decreased but I'm very happy with 34/70 and after that batch I threw 4 packets of M-84 in the garbage.

I brewed my pilsner with M84 on Sunday night. I used only 1 packet of M84 and had some fermentation activity by the next day. I achieved this by starting it off a bit warmer. I rehydrated in water at 24 C, pitched at 17 C and let it sit for first 8 hours at 17 C. By then there was already some airlock activity starting. Then I slowly dropped from 17 C down to fermentation temp of 12 C over the course of the next day. By afternoon airlock activity was going nice and solid. So my conclusion is that this yeast is slow multiplying at the colder temps leading to a long lag time if pitched at typical lager fermentation temps. It remains to be seen if there will be any negative reprecussions of pitching it a bit warmer and holding at 17 C overnight but I reckon it would be much worse if an infection took hold during a multi-day lag time.

 

[mblanks2]

I brewed my pilsner with M84 on Sunday night. I used only 1 packet of M84 and had some fermentation activity by the next day. I achieved this by starting it off a bit warmer. I rehydrated in water at 24 C, pitched at 17 C and let it sit for first 8 hours at 17 C. By then there was already some airlock activity starting. Then I slowly dropped from 17 C down to fermentation temp of 12 C over the course of the next day. By afternoon airlock activity was going nice and solid. So my conclusion is that this yeast is slow multiplying at the colder temps leading to a long lag time if pitched at typical lager fermentation temps. It remains to be seen if there will be any negative reprecussions of pitching it a bit warmer and holding at 17 C overnight but I reckon it would be much worse if an infection took hold during a multi-day lag time.

Glad you updated us on this. Please let us know with some tasting notes once it's complete.

 

[aidan]

Glad you updated us on this. Please let us know with some tasting notes once it's complete.

I'll try to remember to. I'm planning to follow the Brulosophy fast lagering method so I should be able to taste it in a few weeks.

 

[highgravitybacon]

I can't remember if I posted this, but here's a data point to ponder. I tried an American style brown ale using the Mangrove Jack M07 yeast. It seems to have a profile very similar to WLP007. My beer was fermented inappropriately warm, e.g. something on the order of 74-76F. So I'm not faulting the product completely. It has a modest ester profile and some slightly higher alcohols, and did leave less body than anticipated. For beers that call for Wyeast 1335, or WLP007, I think this yeast is a suitable substitute.