Anyone go from all grain to extract, and how was it?

[SMOKEU]

I have a Robobrew but I'm looking at giving up on all grain and going back to extract. My all grain journey started off well enough, but now I've thrown out 4 mashes in the past week because it's nothing but problems such as incomplete conversion and a stuck mash. I'm just over the waste of time and grain and then having nothing to show for it.

Anyone else here that used to do all grain give up on it and go fully back to extract? How was it, and what was the quality of the final product like in comparison to all grain? I've even seen crystal malt LME at the brew shop.

 

[NightFlight]

I went from no success with extract - undrinkable swill. I’m not being picky either. Something went terribly wrong with all my extract kits.

Got a brewzilla and finally success2nd batch in the fermenter now. It is still more work, and I’ve made mistakes but seems much better for me.

how do you know your mash is stuck?

 

[SMOKEU]

how do you know your mash is stuck?

In 18 hours it's managed to drain about 2L (about 4 pints) from the grain bed. Usually the whole sparge process is over in 20-30 minutes.

 

[bracconiere]

LOL, i've recently gone back to buying malt, instead of malting my own......and i'm making more cider now too......

 

[davidabcd]

I'm sure there is some fairly easy, doable solution to your issue if you wish to fix it--many knowledgeable brewers.
As to your question, properly made extracts compare favorably to professionally made styles.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

I;ve never done all grain. But extract plus some steeped grains make a very nice brew in my book. Its too easy for me to ever think about all going all grain.

 

[bill from lachine]

I've always done the the kit versions and find them mostly more flavourful than commercial beer so that's good enough for my tastes. I might give some dehydrated malt a chance it up in the future though.

 

[Pkrd]

What's your grain bill?

 

[TheMadKing]

Take a step back and go back to the fundamentals to solve your issue.
Brewing with all grain is easy once you have a thorough grasp of the fundamental steps.

Do a few single infusion mashes at 150F, once you get a few good batches of beer out of it, try a new method like a mash out. Then see what effect that has on your next few batches. Then add a new method like a hockhurz schedule... Don't add any new complications until you feel comfortable that you are doing something repeatable and that consistent.

If you play golf, you're doing the equivalent of going out and buying an expensive set of professional level clubs and then considering quitting golf after going to the driving range and not hitting perfect shots.

I would recommend going back and reading John Palmers how to brew as a good first step.

Stop brewing with wheat for a bit because that adds more difficulty to the mash.

Really get to know your robobrew and how it behaves and how to get the best performance out of it using simple recipes before trying something harder. Brew a single malt and single hop beer or two.

Gotta learn to walk before you can run. Babysteps friend

 

[fun4stuff]

I have a Robobrew but I'm looking at giving up on all grain and going back to extract. My all grain journey started off well enough, but now I've thrown out 4 mashes in the past week because it's nothing but problems such as incomplete conversion and a stuck mash. I'm just over the waste of time and grain and then having nothing to show for it.

Anyone else here that used to do all grain give up on it and go fully back to extract? How was it, and what was the quality of the final product like in comparison to all grain? I've even seen crystal malt LME at the brew shop.

All of your problems would be solved by switching to BIAB. You wouldn't have those issues with BIAB and your brew day would simpler, faster, cheaper, and less complicated. Here are the steps:

1. Mill grain finely while you heat water to strike temp.

2. Put bag of milled grain into water and stir for 5 mins. Wrap pot with heavy blanket/sleeping bag.

3. Go grab a beer or two for 60-90 mins.

4. Hoist bag out of pot. Ideally done with a pulley suspended from ceiling or large ladder. Let bag drain while heat wort to boiling. Speed up draining by twisting bag on itself and squeezing. Can press bag of grain dry with 3 bucket system where bag is placed in middle bucket of 3 nested buckets (multiple holes drilled in side and bottom of this bucket) and top bucket is pressed down with body weight so that squeezed wort is collected in bottom bucket.

5. Boil wort as normal (e.g. 60 mins) and follow hop addition schedule. While spraying off buckets above.

6. Cool wort, aerate, and transfer to fermenter. Add yeast.

7. Clean pot and rinse biab bag.

8. Relax and drink a few more homebrews.

Never get stuck marshes or poor conversation again.

 

[kh54s10]

I do both. About 95% all grain to 5% extract. I get similar results from both. I like the process of brewing all grain and like knowing exactly what is going into my beer. It is like cooking. You can cook with canned or packaged ingredients or use all fresh ingredients. I can get similar results, but using fresh ingredients is fun and I know what I am eating

Work on your processes. Examine your problems and fix them. All grain brewing is not at all difficult. It requires a little more attention and takes more time, but it gives most people better beer and in the long run is much less expensive.

 

[NightFlight]

I haven't sparged yet, mainly because I simply don't have a HLT. It was suggested that I just start out and do a no-sparge to start out. I think perhaps it was the best advice I've gotten with my shiny new robobrew. Time and cleanup are hard enough without a batch failure. I'd be frustrated as well.

No sparge method works for me. Its a hair under target, but... who cares? I made beer. Really really good beer!

 

[bkboiler]

I went from extract to all grain and then in order to keep brewing after having each of my 3 kids, I'd go back to extract for a few batches...
Noticable difference, but it matters *less* for some styles (IPA for one)...
Just be relentless about the freshness of the extract and the water quality.
Take the time to be sure you understand the yeast health too, since you've removed the mashing variable from your quality outcomes...

 

[Transamguy77]

If you are having a stuck mash and incomplete conversation you may have other issues, what is your crush like? Do you crush your own grain? Are you using rice hulls? I’ve never used a robobrew but doesn’t it have a basket? So you could just stir it couldn’t you?

Do to a move I did some extract batches but they were also kits, and some advantages are kits are no thinking, just brew and I can knock one out in 2 hours.

 

[NightFlight]

It is basketed, you should stir it a few times during mash, and I'd imagine you could during sparge. I just don't see how it could be stuck during sparge, as you would notice any issue during mash if you are running the recirculation. You should be running the recirculation pump during mash...

I've found that recirculation flow improves over the duration of the mash.

 

[The_Professor]

......My all grain journey started off well enough, but now I've thrown out 4 mashes in the past week because it's nothing but problems such as incomplete conversion and a stuck mash....

Interesting. Well enough as in 1 all grain brew, 10 all grain brews, 100 all grain brews......then something changed and there are issues?

 

[ncbrewer]

I had to give up all grain brewing because of a back problem - had to shorten the brew day. I'm still very happy with the quality of the extract batches. I do agree with the other posters who said your issues can be solved. You're good either way.

 

[eimar]

As bkboiler mentions, the freshness of the extract is very important. It depends on the style , 10% of my batches are brewed using extract and steeping grains: stout, porter , belgian dubbel ( with homemade candi syrup ) are good candidates. I prefer using fresh liquid malt extract
Jacques

 

[davidabcd]

I've always done the the kit versions and find them mostly more flavourful than commercial beer so that's good enough for my tastes. I might give some dehydrated malt a chance it up in the future though.

I think giving dehydrated malt (DME--dry malt extract) is a great approach since the DME isn't affected by air like the liquid extract (LME).

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I BIAB, solves all of those issues.

 

[eimar]

I think giving dehydrated malt (DME--dry malt extract) is a great approach since the DME isn't affected by air like the liquid extract (LME).

Fresh liquid malt extract has more flavor than DME , it looks like the drying process removes some flavor. ( just my opinion here )
DME is better than oxidized LME
About beer kits, how many months ( or years ) have they been on the shelf ?
DME is convenient for adjusting OG and making canned starters.

Jacques

 

[LostHopper]

I'm also 95% all grain and 5% extract.

Extract for small batches especially if I'm testing hops in a simple smash beer. Nothing complex.

Small all-grain batches are not worth the prep and cleanup. Might as well do 5 gallons.

 

[firerat]

I'll do an extract batch if time is a factor and if it's something simple.

 

[NightFlight]

Small is 5 gallons?

 

[LostHopper]

Small is 5 gallons?

For me, small is 1-2.5 gallons.
I prefer all-grain to be at least 5 gallons.

 

[Snuffy]

If I brew for myself, I usually do all-grain unless I'm given an extract kit as a present or something. My cousin brews exclusively extract to avoid the extra steps and equipment needed for all-grain. Occasionally we brew the same thing - he extract and me grain - just to compare. The results are pretty interesting. The first time was the NB Patersbier. His was slightly darker and maltier and mine was lighter and breadier. Both were excellent. Amazing how satisfying and impressive such a simple beer can be.
The next was Pliny the Elder. He did the NB Plinian Legacy Extract kit and I did the Pliny all-grain from Morebeer that comes from the Russian River folks. His was far more complex and malt forward and mine was much more hop-forward and piney.
Again, both awesome double IPAs, but to me, the extract brew was the better of the 2 because it was surprising how the malt could still balance against such a massive hop presence. If I brew the Pliny again, I think I may do the extract clone. I enjoy all-grain brewing, but every once in a while it's nice to forget the mash and jump straight in at the boil - and end with less cleanup.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

but every once in a while it's nice to forget the mash and jump straight in at the boil

It appears that you may have discovered the next trend.

Eventually, "forum wisdom" will discover that fresh DME/LME is just another ingredient that can be used to make enjoyable beer.

 

[nathanscrivener]

My all-grain beers seem to have surpassed my extract beers now, but the time involved in doing an extract batch is so low and we have high quality kits which are always fresh where I am based so often it's easier to just throw together an extract kit with some added steeped hops for aroma. I get good results without even boiling so I can have a batch pitched in an hour or hour and a half. Compare that to 5 or 6 hours for an all-grain batch.

 

[RM-MN]

My all-grain beers seem to have surpassed my extract beers now, but the time involved in doing an extract batch is so low and we have high quality kits which are always fresh where I am based so often it's easier to just throw together an extract kit with some added steeped hops for aroma. I get good results without even boiling so I can have a batch pitched in an hour or hour and a half. Compare that to 5 or 6 hours for an all-grain batch.

I'm intermediate on this. I find that I take about 3 1/2 hours with an extract batch if I follow the directions and steep grains followed by boiling to extract bittering from the hops. With fine milling and cutting the mash and boil with BIAB I can do an all grain batch in the same amount of time.

 

[nathanscrivener]

I'm intermediate on this. I find that I take about 3 1/2 hours with an extract batch if I follow the directions and steep grains followed by boiling to extract bittering from the hops. With fine milling and cutting the mash and boil with BIAB I can do an all grain batch in the same amount of time.

Sure, but you are comparing the longest way to do extract with the shortest way to do all grain.
The benefit of a kit is the LME is pre hopped. So you don’t necessarily need a bittering addition. If you have otherwise good sanitation practices, your local water supply is clean, and your fermentation gets underway quickly, you don’t need to boil.

 

[BethelLight]

I think this was a well written blog on using a Robobrew/Brewzilla.

https://brewchatter.com/blogs/brewchatter-homebrewing-blog/troubleshooting-your-robobrew

 

[dwhite60]

I think there is a place for both all grain and extract.

I just did a Coopers Real Ale kit after 30 years of all grain. Sure made an easy brew day. If time is short this isn't a bad way to go.

 

[bkboiler]

I found Maris otter LME the other day and was pumped...
It made very yummy beer!

 

[jrgtr42]

The benefit of a kit is the LME is pre hopped. So you don’t necessarily need a bittering addition.

I used to do extracy kits and not a one of them was pre-hopped.
Sure there is pre-hopped extract, but not all of it - in fact, I had a hard time find some when I was looking for it for some recipe or another.

 

[Snuffy]

Yeah, I have seen pre-hopped extract kits from Munton's but the LME in most extract kits I have used is not hopped and still requires the hop adds during boil.

 

[Steveruch]

You can make excellent extract versions of most beer styles.

 

[squaremile]

I made about 150 all grain BIAB beers, and actually started that way. I never made a single extract brew. About 9 months ago in a quest to keep refining my process and shorten my day, I started doing the techniques that folks usually do starting out (partial mash, partial boil, using extract, etc). I'll be honest, it's the most fun I've had brewing, and the beers are even better. I'm sure I'm bringing knowledge to it from the all grain batches (water profiles, hopping strategy, fermentation QC, sanitation, kegging practices, etc) that is part of why I'm getting good results. But honestly I wish I had done this sooner. The key to the whole thing is you absolutely have to do a partial mash, I'd say minimum would be 20% of the malt bill in weight should be from the grains. So like 4oz of grains per LB of extract (I use DME). Good luck if you make the switch.

 

[lakota]

I made about 150 all grain BIAB beers, and actually started that way. I never made a single extract brew. About 9 months ago in a quest to keep refining my process and shorten my day, I started doing the techniques that folks usually do starting out (partial mash, partial boil, using extract, etc). I'll be honest, it's the most fun I've had brewing, and the beers are even better. I'm sure I'm bringing knowledge to it from the all grain batches (water profiles, hopping strategy, fermentation QC, sanitation, kegging practices, etc) that is part of why I'm getting good results. But honestly I wish I had done this sooner. The key to the whole thing is you absolutely have to do a partial mash, I'd say minimum would be 20% of the malt bill in weight should be from the grains. So like 4oz of grains per LB of extract (I use DME). Good luck if you make the switch.

Would you please post more about your shortened brewday and techniques that you employ. Thanks

 

[squaremile]

Would you please post more about your shortened brewday and techniques that you employ. Thanks

Yeah sure thing. So last one I made was a 3 gallon low abv (a little over 3%) hoppy Lager:

2 gallons of brewing water
2lb briess golden light dme
8oz Golden promise (milled)
2oz C-15 (milled)
50g CTZ kettle hops
Fermentis 34/70
25g Sterling dry hops

Bring water to 165 degrees
Add DME, bag of grains, hops
Let it sit for 20 minutes (about 155deg)
Chill to 100deg w/ 1gal distilled water
Let sit to get to pitching temp
Tranfer to fermenter
Sprinkle yeast
At final gravity dry hop for for 2-3 days
Closed transfer to keg

Done. All in that's about 60 minutes. You can see elements from no chill, no boil, lo-do, extract, biab, and traditional techniques in there I think.

 

[lakota]

Thank you for sharing your brewing process and recipe. You obviously have covered the gamut of traditional and newer techniques. I’m a 5 gallon, traditional 60 minute mash & boil all-grain brewer. So developing a hop schedule and techniques for no boil is my area of concern. I’m moving to small 2-3 gallon batches and a shorter brew day. I started with extract 18 years ago and plan on doing it again. Your comment of how adding 20% grain improved your beer peaked my interest. I of course followed the extract to partial mash to all-grain brewing path. Have never done no boil, no chill but will give it a try.