Anyone get arrested for brewing or mistaken identity?

[weirdboy]

A landlord can not consent to search. They can report suspicious circumstances that may give law enforcement probable cause, or enough info to obtain a warrant. I'm not taking any sides here, just reporting some court decisions regarding the matter.

http://www.caselaw4cops.net/searchandseizure/consent.htm

I don't know about your state, but here in California a landlord can enter a tenant's unit for several reasons (e.g. inspection, maintenance) with 24 hour prior notice,and can enter the property at any time in the case of an emergency. There is nothing preventing said landlord from entering with police officers in tow.

 

[TriageStat]

The chief of police lives next door to me..on brew day he stops in to shoot the **** and have a couple

 

[scottland]

Other than one or two people, everyone is missing the point that they had propane tanks stored inside their apartment. I'm sorry, but that's a bad idea.

Propane tanks go 'boom' in a fire. The fire department came in, did an inspection, and from the sounds of it, it was totally justified.

I know if I was a fireman, I wouldn't want to rush into a burning building if it had some LP tanks that were waiting to explode. That's how firemen die.

 

[ScoRas]

I don't know about your state, but here in California a landlord can enter a tenant's unit for several reasons (e.g. inspection, maintenance) with 24 hour prior notice,and can enter the property at any time in the case of an emergency. There is nothing preventing said landlord from entering with police officers in tow.

You are right, but they can't consent to a search of your personal belongings, i.e. anything that is put away in such a way as to have a reasonable expectation of privacy. They can certainly allow officers in for safety, or destruction reasons.

Anyways, nothing in the story posted in the OP looks like the landlord or police overstepped their duties. I'm really not trying to feign outrage or anything here, this is just a law I looked into and I tried to post some court decisions. It's good to know the law.

 

[ScoRas]

Other than one or two people, everyone is missing the point that they had propane tanks stored inside their apartment. I'm sorry, but that's a bad idea.

Propane tanks go 'boom' in a fire. The fire department came in, did an inspection, and from the sounds of it, it was totally justified.

I know if I was a fireman, I wouldn't want to rush into a burning building if it had some LP tanks that were waiting to explode. That's how firemen die.

I agree that is justified.

 

[bernerbrau]

I don't know much about making meth, but why does everyone think a damn turkey fryer kit = making meth. Yea, I'm definitely making meth in my driveway for everyone to see.. I would have been so pissed if that was me. No real evidence and they bust in.

Everyone loves a scandal, there's always a few people who are just bored enough to call the cops on an upstanding citizen who happens to brew his own beer legally, and there's always a few cops who are just zealous enough to book said citizen on probable cause.

My gut tells me these cases are few and far between, but when they happen they make headlines with the brewing community.

 

[hoppymonkey]

I don't know about your state, but here in California a landlord can enter a tenant's unit for several reasons (e.g. inspection, maintenance) with 24 hour prior notice,and can enter the property at any time in the case of an emergency. There is nothing preventing said landlord from entering with police officers in tow.

+1 Same deal here is GA. I hated it when I lived in an apartment. We couldn't even own a grill to place on our small padio as that was illegal as well.

 

[Airborneguy]

You are right, but they can't consent to a search of your personal belongings, i.e. anything that is put away in such a way as to have a reasonable expectation of privacy. They can certainly allow officers in for safety, or destruction reasons.

Anyways, nothing in the story posted in the OP looks like the landlord or police overstepped their duties. I'm really not trying to feign outrage or anything here, this is just a law I looked into and I tried to post some court decisions. It's good to know the law.

The shame of it is that most of the posters in this thread, and seemingly a majority of society, are perfectly content working themselves into a complete state of outrage with very little solid information, as long as it is written somewhere on the internet and especially if it involves the police. I wouldn't blow my nose based on anything written in a blog, much less start the jack-booted a-hole cop accusations.

 

[usfmikeb]

The shame of it is that most of the posters in this thread, and seemingly a majority of society, are perfectly content working themselves into a complete state of outrage with very little solid information, as long as it is written somewhere on the internet and especially if it involves the police. I wouldn't blow my nose based on anything written in a blog, much less start the jack-booted a-hole cop accusations.

Many of us have dealt with a-hole cops at some point in our lives. For example, there was this cop when I was in high school that harassed my friends and I because we had long hair. He went to exorbitant lengths to mess with us, and usually threatened us with brutality each time. He would push us around, humiliate us in front of others, and consistently tried to entrap us. So, I've been there and understand why many people think about police the way they do. With that said, I think it is the minority of police that act that way, and I still treat law enforcement with respect.

 

[ScoRas]

The shame of it is that most of the posters in this thread, and seemingly a majority of society, are perfectly content working themselves into a complete state of outrage with very little solid information, as long as it is written somewhere on the internet and especially if it involves the police. I wouldn't blow my nose based on anything written in a blog, much less start the jack-booted a-hole cop accusations.

Yeah, I hear you. Even in that article it never stated the police did anything beyond check the safety of the premises. There was just so much misinformation in this thread regarding the ability of a landlord to give up 4th amendment rights, I felt I had to chime in with some court decisions.

I should keep my noob butt out of it, lol.

 

[rexbanner]

The shame of it is that most of the posters in this thread, and seemingly a majority of society, are perfectly content working themselves into a complete state of outrage with very little solid information, as long as it is written somewhere on the internet and especially if it involves the police. I wouldn't blow my nose based on anything written in a blog, much less start the jack-booted a-hole cop accusations.

Story sounds pretty plausible to me. People believe these things because cops do this type of stuff all the time. I work at a coffee shop and many cops come in, and all of them are very friendly and polite. But I think most people have had at least one bad experience with a cop.

Also, I get extremely frustrated reading about police who abuse their power. The end result is almost always nothing. The officers in question get paid suspension while a do-nothing investigation results in no punishment.

 

[Airborneguy]

Story sounds pretty plausible to me. People believe these things because cops do this type of stuff all the time. I work at a coffee shop and many cops come in, and all of them are very friendly and polite. But I think most people have had at least one bad experience with a cop.

You have to realize how ridiculous these sentences taken together sound.

ALL (your word) of the cops you regularly encounter are very friendly and polite, but somehow you find this story plausible based on... wait, based on what?

What exactly is this story anyway? A safety check is conducted with the landlord's permission (and possibly his urging since cops and firemen aren't psychics) because someone was accused of keeping propane tanks in an apartment building, someone involved (could have been cops or firemen), moves some carboys around, and a fire marshall makes a stink about a dead battery... so what exactly did the police do wrong here?

See my point? Do you really expect a majority of cops to care what the public thinks when no matter what the public is going to hate them anyway (even based on a blog post)?

(still nothing on the mistaken identity or whether anyone got arrested btw. I'm soooo surprised the blog didn't cover those points. Imagine a steadfastly reliable blog neglecting those important pieces of information! Never happens )

 

[SittingDuck]

Sorry, ABG. You're fighting a losing battle. I only do civil litigation (as you know from my understanding of the 5th ) and I still have clients telling me how cops are screwing them. Even if there are no cops involved.

Every defense attorney I know is convinced every cop is a lying scumbag. My law school buddy the DUI lawyer will tell you every one of his clients was railroaded by a dirty cop, not that his client got hammered and decided to drive. His client with multiple DUIs isn't a repeat criminal, he just apparently has bad luck with cops.

Everybody hates cops. Everybody knows they are all dirty. Well, I mean, except for the ones they know personally, those guys are cool, but all the other ones are dirty. It must be true. I saw it on TV. Or a blog.

Oh, and try seeing how many people like lawyers sometime.

 

[SouthBay]

I hate when im brewing up illegal drugs and people assume im making beer

 

[Airborneguy]

Everybody hates cops. Everybody knows they are all dirty. Well, I mean, except for the ones they know personally, those guys are cool, but all the other ones are dirty. It must be true. I saw it on TV. Or a blog.

I've dumped a few friends who fit this quote 100%. Telling me "you're cool and we know you don't do anything wrong," isn't going to cover for every time they bad mouth pretty much every cop they ever see. I love when people try to tell me stories about how a cop "went through a red light right in front of me for no reason. What do you think of that?" I tell them I think it's amazing that they knew exactly what the cop was doing without having access to a police radio. I told someone I used to hang out with that we couldn't be friends anymore because I didn't want to be there to help him on the off-chance he ever needed a cop while I was with him. Every other day he had a story about something a cop did wrong to him, and not a single instance was his fault in any way.

The level of proof required by the general public to make decisions amazes me sometimes (actually, almost always). Odd, considering I'm the one who supposedly makes decisions with little to no evidence...

 

[thatjonguy]

I've dumped a few friends who fit this quote 100%. Telling me "you're cool and we know you don't do anything wrong," isn't going to cover for every time they bad mouth pretty much every cop they ever see. I love when people try to tell me stories about how a cop "went through a red light right in front of me for no reason. What do you think of that?" I tell them I think it's amazing that they knew exactly what the cop was doing without having access to a police radio. I told someone I used to hang out with that we couldn't be friends anymore because I didn't want to be there to help him on the off-chance he ever needed a cop while I was with him. Every other day he had a story about something a cop did wrong to him, and not a single instance was his fault in any way.

The level of proof required by the general public to make decisions amazes me sometimes (actually, almost always). Odd, considering I'm the one who supposedly makes decisions with little to no evidence...

The truth. It is amazing how all your friends slowly become other law enforcement or emergency services. I miss it everyday.

 

[jd3]

Story sounds pretty plausible to me. People believe these things because cops do this type of stuff all the time. I work at a coffee shop and many cops come in, and all of them are very friendly and polite. But I think most people have had at least one bad experience with a cop.

Also, I get extremely frustrated reading about police who abuse their power. The end result is almost always nothing. The officers in question get paid suspension while a do-nothing investigation results in no punishment.

1) The story obviously lacks solid facts. The basics from the story indicate that the fire department did everything related to this incident. I'm not sure what cops actually have to do with the story. The fire department made entry. the fire department took the tanks. The fire department looked for hazardous chemicals. The fire department took the LP tanks. The fire department told him they could come back for a random inspection.

What exactly did the police department do?

2) bad experience.... people always think the cops are doing something wrong when they point out that THEY are doing something wrong. They are trained to be suspicious. If you haven't been beaten, arrested without cause, or unjustly harassed, wtf have the cops actually done to you? The story people tell vs the story the cops tell is always grossly different. Is it ALWAYS the cops that must be exaggerating and lying to cover THEIR asses? Me thinks not. A cop doing his job and writing a ticket doesn't make him an *******.


I would imagine the incidence of misconduct with police officers is no higher than that of any other job. Likely MUCH less. Particularly ACTUAL misconduct and not some emo cry baby "they pulled me over for no reason".

I'm not a cop, but I am a paramedic. I spend a lot of time with cops on the streets. Every Joe blow out there says the same thing. "I had two beers and I was standing there minding my own business when some guy I've never seen came up out of no where and kicked my ass and ran away before I got a look at his face".

 

[rexbanner]

You have to realize how ridiculous these sentences taken together sound.

ALL (your word) of the cops you regularly encounter are very friendly and polite, but somehow you find this story plausible based on... wait, based on what?

What exactly is this story anyway? A safety check is conducted with the landlord's permission (and possibly his urging since cops and firemen aren't psychics) because someone was accused of keeping propane tanks in an apartment building, someone involved (could have been cops or firemen), moves some carboys around, and a fire marshall makes a stink about a dead battery... so what exactly did the police do wrong here?

See my point? Do you really expect a majority of cops to care what the public thinks when no matter what the public is going to hate them anyway (even based on a blog post)?

(still nothing on the mistaken identity or whether anyone got arrested btw. I'm soooo surprised the blog didn't cover those points. Imagine a steadfastly reliable blog neglecting those important pieces of information! Never happens )

Hmm, baseless? Maybe it's because like I said, most of us have had at least one negative experience with a cop.

I also said the ones who come into where I work, not all of them. Not very hard to understand, actually.

Maybe people are angry about this story because they don't like a bunch of people coming into their house and searching their stuff without at least talking to them first. Crazy, huh. Also, I wasn't aware that the general public has a negative perception of police, but if that's your view, ever wonder why that might be?

 

[jd3]

Maybe the OP can ask his friend for a pic of the carnage and the note. It'd do wonders to help me understand this Fukushima like destruction that ensued following Hurricane Fire Department.

Does anyone notice this story lacks all of the anonymity of internet folk lore? No location. No full names. No news story. Nothing.

If he really feels accosted perhaps he should call up SittingDuck and they could formulate the next class action lawsuit of the century.

 

[JRems]

I don't know if it was mentioned, but the landlord should be getting the letter for the smoke detector battery. It's not the tenants property.

 

[downtown3641]

Most cops I've come across have been great. But, in my line of work, I've come across a number of officers who cannot differentiate between situations that require a show of force and those that don't. But, as I said, the majority of cops I've come across have been great and willing to work with us to properly resolve situations.

That said, it's the responsibility of regular citizens to critically analyze the performance of law enforcement officers to ensure that they are doing their jobs in a way that benefits the community. Yes. Some people will feel wronged when they aren't. But, anyone with any sort of critical thinking skills can see through that bull**** just like we can see through needless bravado.

 

[Phunhog]

Other than one or two people, everyone is missing the point that they had propane tanks stored inside their apartment. I'm sorry, but that's a bad idea.

Propane tanks go 'boom' in a fire. The fire department came in, did an inspection, and from the sounds of it, it was totally justified.

I know if I was a fireman, I wouldn't want to rush into a burning building if it had some LP tanks that were waiting to explode. That's how firemen die.

I am a professional firefighter. Storing LP tanks in your residence is a bad idea but we can't control your personal behavior. In this case it "might" be different since the tenant doesn't own the property. We can't knock on your door and conduct a fire safety inspection since you are not a public occupancy. When we go in houses on medical calls we see all sorts of fire hazards....blocked exits, hoarding, no smoke detectors, etc...We can suggest they make changes but we can't enforce it.

 

[sudsmcgee]

I have a lot of respect for good cops, but less than zero for the bad ones. And I really resent the fact if I am being mistreated by a bad cop in my state that I am not allowed to record the incident as evidence even though they are recording me. This situation makes it easy to hate cops in general if you ask me.

 

[sudsmcgee]

I am a professional firefighter. Storing LP tanks in your residence is a bad idea but we can't control your personal behavior. In this case it "might" be different since the tenant doesn't own the property. We can't knock on your door and conduct a fire safety inspection since you are not a public occupancy. When we go in houses on medical calls we see all sorts of fire hazards....blocked exits, hoarding, no smoke detectors, etc...We can suggest they make changes but we can't enforce it.

What about storing them in an attached garage. That's what I do, but I never thought about it as a problem.

 

[Phunhog]

When I go to a garage fire right away I am thinking LP tanks, gas tanks, paint cans, pesticides, and things like that. At least that is how my garage looks LP tanks are designed to vent when under pressure to avoid an explosion, though I have seen it happen on brush fires. I am not thinking about LP tanks in somebody's living room though.....well at least not in most people's houses.

 

[SittingDuck]

Hmm, baseless? Maybe it's because like I said, most of us have had at least one negative experience with a cop.

Really? I'd love to hear all these negative experiences. I bet they are all, well, I was technically breaking the law, but it wasn't a big law, so the cop was out of line, or well, but I only had a little weed and the man was just hasslin me.

I have had several run-ons with the cops. I have my share of tickets, I've had cops stop by my college parties when we got out of hand, I've been arrested for a misdemeanor. I was never happy to see the police in those instances. I would probably say they were "negative experiences," but not one of them had to do with bad cops.

And you complain they didn't talk to the guy, but who's to say, from the info in this blog, that the landlord hadn't told the guy ten times not to store LP in his apartment? And even if they didn't, if the firemen come to investigate a public safety concern and the guy isn't home, what should they do? Come back randomly trying to catch him at home and hope nothing blows up in the meantime? Or hang around until he comes back? Sure hope nothing catches fire across town while they are waiting on him.

If the building caught fire, the tanks blew up, and some kids died, then the story comes out the firemen knew of the danger for months but just never caught the guy to chat, and so the firemen did nothing, how do you think that story gets reported? Do you think you might be posting a very different rant?

 

[zeg]

After following this thread, I think the basic behavior of the FD was quite reasonable. Apparently the LP and dead battery were code violations, so they're absolutely doing the right thing to correct the situation.

If the brewer has a legitimate gripe at all, it would be with the landlord. Unless he really thought there was an emergency situation---possible, but unlikely IMO---he should talk about his concerns with the tenant in person before entering the property, even if he legally has the right to do so. That's just common decency. If he did this and was blown off or ignored, then I'm on his side.

We all need to be responsible, safe brewers. That means storing flammable materials safely and taking proper precautions with brewing equipment.

 

[sweetcell]

What exactly is this story anyway? A safety check is conducted with the landlord's permission (and possibly his urging since cops and firemen aren't psychics) because someone was accused of keeping propane tanks in an apartment building

from the OP's link:

"A couple of weeks ago local police and firefighters raided his place looking for evidence of an illegal drug making operation. He was not home to see them going through his things but it was very obvious that their primary focus was his beer room, where he keeps his brewing equipment."

so based on the original story, they did not raid for propane tanks. they were looking for a meth lab, and happened to find propane. obviously propane tanks in an apartment are a bad idea and i'm glad they were removed, but that sounds like a post-facto justification ("we came looking for a drug lab, but since there isn't one we'll settle for this tank").

if he happened to not have propane - and it was possible, since no one was expecting to find any in there ("cops and firemen aren't psychics") - this really would have looked bad on the raiding party. the coincidence of the propane was a very fortunate one.

this is a certain amount of "the ends do not justify the means" here, IMO.

 

[rexbanner]

Really? I'd love to hear all these negative experiences. I bet they are all, well, I was technically breaking the law, but it wasn't a big law, so the cop was out of line, or well, but I only had a little weed and the man was just hasslin me.

I have had several run-ons with the cops. I have my share of tickets, I've had cops stop by my college parties when we got out of hand, I've been arrested for a misdemeanor. I was never happy to see the police in those instances. I would probably say they were "negative experiences," but not one of them had to do with bad cops.

And you complain they didn't talk to the guy, but who's to say, from the info in this blog, that the landlord hadn't told the guy ten times not to store LP in his apartment? And even if they didn't, if the firemen come to investigate a public safety concern and the guy isn't home, what should they do? Come back randomly trying to catch him at home and hope nothing blows up in the meantime? Or hang around until he comes back? Sure hope nothing catches fire across town while they are waiting on him.

If the building caught fire, the tanks blew up, and some kids died, then the story comes out the firemen knew of the danger for months but just never caught the guy to chat, and so the firemen did nothing, how do you think that story gets reported? Do you think you might be posting a very different rant?

Actually, no. When I said negative experiences, I didn't mean times I was breaking the law and was mad that I got caught.

Also, who's to say anything? This story could be 100% made up. At face value, I would say they mishandled the situation. Maybe there's more to it, maybe not. Somehow I doubt they tried talking to him.

 

[Dan]

After following this thread, I think the basic behavior of the FD was quite reasonable. Apparently the LP and dead battery were code violations, so they're absolutely doing the right thing to correct the situation.

If the brewer has a legitimate gripe at all, it would be with the landlord. Unless he really thought there was an emergency situation---possible, but unlikely IMO---he should talk about his concerns with the tenant in person before entering the property, even if he legally has the right to do so. That's just common decency. If he did this and was blown off or ignored, then I'm on his side.

We all need to be responsible, safe brewers. That means storing flammable materials safely and taking proper precautions with brewing equipment.

Very well said Sir. This in my opinion, which doesn't count for much is the best response in the other 86-88 threads written.