Anyone ever self distributed from home?

[Rob2010SS]

Has anyone here ever self distributed their beer that they made at home? What were your experiences? What steps were needed?

My wife and I are considering trying out self distribution to a couple of local restaurants by our house. We know the owner, who actually happens to own both places. From what we've read, in Illinois you CAN self distribute with a class 1 brewers license, just not sure what else is needed.

Our logic is that by doing this, we'd get a good feel for what people, other than friends, really thought of our beer and if selling in this area is really feasible. The other benefit is that this seems to be somewhat more of a "baby step" vs taking the leap and opening a place. Only problem is that we're trying to figure out the steps to do so.

I know we need to form an LLC, I know we need the class 1 brewers license, but that's about it so far. I thought that if anyone else has done it in the past, might be good to learn from them and their experiences.

I know of the ProBrewer forum as well so I'll look there also but wanted to start here. If anyone has any good Illinois beer law references as well, I'd be interested in those too.

Thanks in advance.

 

[mulletmaster]

Do you need a ATF licence for this? I have heard that living in same building as the brewery is a no-go.

 

[Gravitysucks]

Here's some general legal guidelines from a law blog that deals with breweries.
http://brewerylaw.com/2016/06/license-a-brewery-at-home

 

[Rob2010SS]

Do you need a ATF licence for this? I have heard that living in same building as the brewery is a no-go.

It very well could be. I have no idea. We just started looking into this so we'll see.

 

[kevin58]

Interesting. I thought the brewer wasn't allowed to distribute.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Here's some general legal guidelines from a law blog that deals with breweries.
http://brewerylaw.com/2016/06/license-a-brewery-at-home

That's a really good read. Thank you.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Interesting. I thought the brewer wasn't allowed to distribute.

That's what I thought as well until some time back I read about the owners of a fairly new brewery near me doing it prior to having a place.

 

[mongoose33]

I believe you need a license. Check into that before you get too far into the distribution thing.

States vary by what they allow and don't, and the feds, of course, will have their say.

I've been looking into a brewing license and it's not easy, and it's not quick. Might be different for you.

 

[kevin58]

This has always been my understanding...
https://www.craftbeer.com/craft-beer-muses/three-tier-system-impacts-craft-beer
https://www.craftbeer.com/craft-beer-muses/three-tier-system-impacts-craft-beer

 

[Rob2010SS]

I believe you need a license. Check into that before you get too far into the distribution thing.

States vary by what they allow and don't, and the feds, of course, will have their say.

I've been looking into a brewing license and it's not easy, and it's not quick. Might be different for you.

You referring to the brewers license or a distribution license?

Yeah I don't anticipate any of this being quick or easy....

 

[Rob2010SS]

This has always been my understanding...
https://www.craftbeer.com/craft-beer-muses/three-tier-system-impacts-craft-beer

But even on that page...

...talks about self distribution and how some states allow it. Based on the link in my original post, it appears Illinois is one of these.

 

[bob1852]

You'll also need your brewing/packaging/storing space permitted/approved
appropriately by whatever agency oversees food production safety code(s).

And depending on where you live, certain city/county or HOA rules won't allow the property to conduct commercial business.

Add in the TTB (federal license), state licence, and other city/local codes for safe/proper equipment, storage, etc., you're looking at an uphill battle, even just trying to figure out what needs to be done...

(I looked into running a dry spice company out of my kitchen and it was going to cost ~$10k in upgrades just for the county to certify it as a commercial kitchen...)

Good luck!

 

[bobeer]

The class 1 brewer's license looks to just be within your state but you still have to get the OK from the TTB. I have spoken to the TTB several times about a few different brewery operations I've tried to get going.

If you're brewing the beer in your house it's going to be a no go. If you're brewing in your garage you'll have to close off the entry to your house from the garage. If you're brewing it in a structure that isn't attached to your house it's a maybe (case-by-case basis) as long as you can show how you plan on securing the beer. It can be a lock on the door and windows of your brew shed/house but the TTB will want to know and will come to inspect it.

They will also want a diagram of your brewery to show where everything, gear wise, fermentation wise, and packaging wise. Local authorities including, county, town, state, HOA, etc also have to approve if applicable. Any of these authorities could make you rezone your property if need be too. I have found if you get the OK from the TTB first and then go to your local authorities and tell them the TTB is cool with what you're trying to do they will be more likely to give you the OK as well.

That class 1 license sounds cool but that's just the state side of the red tape. You should also need clearence on the federal TTB side too. This link should get you going... good luck! https://www.ttb.gov/beer/qualify.shtml

 

[deadwolfbones]

There's at least one quasi-homebrew operation here in Bend that sells bottles in stores and distributes kegs: https://www.shadetreebrewing.com/

The owner/brewer is a member of my homebrew club.

 

[mongoose33]

You referring to the brewers license or a distribution license?

Yeah I don't anticipate any of this being quick or easy....

Brewers license. From what I can tell--might be wrong--it takes a minimum of 6 months to get the feds to bless you. As a general rule--again, might be wrong--it appears you have to already have identified the space in which you're going to brew.

I'd looked at a few spaces for that, but I can't afford at least a six-month commitment to rent without having any income. Difficult to get started.

I wanted to brew in my garage and distribute from there. Well, apparently you can't do that if your garage is attached to the house in such as way that you can pass from the garage to the house directly, i.e., there's a door. I have one, so unless I can talk my wife into bricking it up...

Or you could have a brew shed or similar that isn't connected to the house. I don't have that, nor any way to build one on the lot.

Further, there's the issue of code compliance with zoning laws. I'm pretty sure brewing isn't an acceptable use where I live, and probably wouldn't comply with a conditional use permit. Your area might be different, of course.

I'm not trying to talk you out of this, just offering a little realism. I want to do the same thing you're trying to do, and have discovered all these obstacles. We thought we had a workaround by putting the brewery in a restaurant/bar (distribution is through the taproom), but space limitations scotched that one.

Anyway, good luck and keep adding here--I'm quite interested in seeing how you proceed.

 

[bobeer]

But even on that page...

View attachment 618240

...talks about self distribution and how some states allow it. Based on the link in my original post, it appears Illinois is one of these.

Yes, many states allow self distribution but you still have to get past the TTB and local authorities to bless your overall brewing operation. I'm in Va, and we can also self distribute, but all that means is your brewery doesn't have to go through a 3rd party to get your beer into stores and bars but you still need to operate as a legal legit brewery which has a lot of red tape. I'm still going through all of this; for the 3rd time! Even if you self distribute your state may require you to do so through another business owned by you. So you'd essentially own 2 companies. A brewery and and distribution company. This is where I have stopped my research because even if I'm able to open a brewery I wont distribute for a while.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Brewers license. From what I can tell--might be wrong--it takes a minimum of 6 months to get the feds to bless you. As a general rule--again, might be wrong--it appears you have to already have identified the space in which you're going to brew.

I'd looked at a few spaces for that, but I can't afford at least a six-month commitment to rent without having any income. Difficult to get started.

I wanted to brew in my garage and distribute from there. Well, apparently you can't do that if your garage is attached to the house in such as way that you can pass from the garage to the house directly, i.e., there's a door. I have one, so unless I can talk my wife into bricking it up...

Or you could have a brew shed or similar that isn't connected to the house. I don't have that, nor any way to build one on the lot.

Further, there's the issue of code compliance with zoning laws. I'm pretty sure brewing isn't an acceptable use where I live, and probably wouldn't comply with a conditional use permit. Your area might be different, of course.

I'm not trying to talk you out of this, just offering a little realism. I want to do the same thing you're trying to do, and have discovered all these obstacles. We thought we had a workaround by putting the brewery in a restaurant/bar (distribution is through the taproom), but space limitations scotched that one.

Anyway, good luck and keep adding here--I'm quite interested in seeing how you proceed.

I appreciate the insight actually. It appears that brewing from the house, as you've stated, isn't going to work for me, I don't think.

From Brewery Law Blog...

Like you have stated, these are not an option for me. I can't build a building on my lot, I can't/won't seal off my garage from my house, and not sure about the "lease allowing activity" option.

My only other option is that a good friend of ours owns a building that could work. We believe it's properly zoned but we're looking into that.

More homework to do. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Rob2010SS]

The class 1 brewer's license looks to just be within your state but you still have to get the OK from the TTB. I have spoken to the TTB several times about a few different brewery operations I've tried to get going.

If you're brewing the beer in your house it's going to be a no go. If you're brewing in your garage you'll have to close off the entry to your house from the garage. If you're brewing it in a structure that isn't attached to your house it's a maybe (case-by-case basis) as long as you can show how you plan on securing the beer. It can be a lock on the door and windows of your brew shed/house but the TTB will want to know and will come to inspect it.

They will also want a diagram of your brewery to show where everything, gear wise, fermentation wise, and packaging wise. Local authorities including, county, town, state, HOA, etc also have to approve if applicable. Any of these authorities could make you rezone your property if need be too. I have found if you get the OK from the TTB first and then go to your local authorities and tell them the TTB is cool with what you're trying to do they will be more likely to give you the OK as well.

That class 1 license sounds cool but that's just the state side of the red tape. You should also need clearence on the federal TTB side too. This link should get you going... good luck! https://www.ttb.gov/beer/qualify.shtml

This is excellent info. Thank you.

 

[Rob2010SS]

There's at least one quasi-homebrew operation here in Bend that sells bottles in stores and distributes kegs: https://www.shadetreebrewing.com/

The owner/brewer is a member of my homebrew club.

That's quite the setup he's got! 2000 sq ft building on his property. That's impressive

 

[kh54s10]

Not to mention that the local distributor is not going to like you cutting in.... He will send Guido to break your kneecaps.. JK (probably)

 

[Jtk78]

I've looked at the Illinois self distribution law a bit for a different reason. My understanding is a Class 1 brewer may self distribute to liquor licensees as long as the brewery produces less than 930,000 gallons (30,000 barrels) of beer a year, or are not affiliated with a brewery that produces more than 930,000 gallons of beer a year.

I've also seen lately on the pro brewer site, people with all of their ducks in a row getting the federal approval in 3-4 months, but I doubt that's the norm, and I certainly wouldn't expect it in your situation.

I know where Spring Grove is. Are you in a rural part of it, or near the residential area. As linked and mentioned above, you're going to need a separated (dedicated) brew space and it will need to be up to code for it to fly through the TTB. I have no idea how the county or city (if in incorparated Sugar Grove) will view it. Have you considered contract brewing (not sure how that plays in getting a license, I believe the TBB needs to see an agreement on paper with the partner brewer)? Oswego Brewing Company isn't that far from you, but I don't what their tank space/quantity looks like. Lastly, this spring/summer, Pilot Project Brewing (brewing incubator facility) is slated to open in Chicago. I know it's a drive from Sugar Grove, but you may want to look it up and contact them to get a better understanding of how they'll operate and see if that could be an option for you.

There are low cost/low risk options out there. Just need to exercise all of your options if one gets turned down and not hang it up if this is what you really want. Energy City started out very small and now contract brews out of Church Street. They are really picking up steam fast & have a pretty good following.

Good luck!

 

[Rob2010SS]

I've looked at the Illinois self distribution law a bit for a different reason. My understanding is a Class 1 brewer may self distribute to liquor licensees as long as the brewery produces less than 930,000 gallons (30,000 barrels) of beer a year, or are not affiliated with a brewery that produces more than 930,000 gallons of beer a year.

I've also seen lately on the pro brewer site, people with all of their ducks in a row getting the federal approval in 3-4 months, but I doubt that's the norm, and I certainly wouldn't expect it in your situation.

I know where Spring Grove is. Are you in a rural part of it, or near the residential area. As linked and mentioned above, you're going to need a separated (dedicated) brew space and it will need to be up to code for it to fly through the TTB. I have no idea how the county or city (if in incorparated Sugar Grove) will view it. Have you considered contract brewing (not sure how that plays in getting a license, I believe the TBB needs to see an agreement on paper with the partner brewer)? Oswego Brewing Company isn't that far from you, but I don't what their tank space/quantity looks like. Lastly, this spring/summer, Pilot Project Brewing (brewing incubator facility) is slated to open in Chicago. I know it's a drive from Sugar Grove, but you may want to look it up and contact them to get a better understanding of how they'll operate and see if that could be an option for you.

There are low cost/low risk options out there. Just need to exercise all of your options if one gets turned down and not hang it up if this is what you really want. Energy City started out very small and now contract brews out of Church Street. They are really picking up steam fast & have a pretty good following.

Good luck!

I have not considered contract brewing. I'm not too familiar with the concept, other than knowing that people pay to use other businesses equipment. Other than that, don't know much about it.

Oswego is 1.5 hrs from me, so that would be tough to pull off working full time. There are a couple of breweries closer to me than that. Perhaps that would be an option with them.

I'll dig into this some more. Thanks for the info.

 

[deadwolfbones]

That's quite the setup he's got! 2000 sq ft building on his property. That's impressive

Yeah, I think he worked up to that from a much smaller operation. Definitely pretty impressive at this point!