Anyone else out there hate starsan?

Brewer's Friend 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
H

HopHound12

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
127
Reaction score
10
Location
Clearwater
I may be in the minority here but I literally hate starsan. After using iodophor for sanitation for over three years with no infections whatsoever I decided to give starsan a try. This was a big mistake...here are a few of the things that I dislike about it:

1. When filling my kegs all of the foam prevents me from seeing where the beer level is.
2. When filling carboys about 4 gallons in the foam starts to back up into the funnel preventing the beer from flowing into the carboy resulting in obnoxious bubbling over. The "bubble over" gets all over the carboy and then I have to clean it off and my floor as well.
3. One time when using dry yeast I forgot to put the yeast in before filling the carboy with the wort and now it was literally stuck on top of all of the foam.
4. It makes a huge mess everywhere.

All of this for just so I don't have to rinse? NO THANKS

Does anyone else feel the same about it??
 
I think the foam helps me believe it's properly sanitized. I've never used anything else. Maybe it's a me thing? Use what you like man.
 
HopHound12 said:
I may be in the minority here but I literally hate starsan. After using iodophor for sanitation for over three years with no infections whatsoever I decided to give starsan a try. This was a big mistake...here are a few of the things that I dislike about it:



1. When filling my kegs all of the foam prevents me from seeing where the beer level is.

2. When filling carboys about 4 gallons in the foam starts to back up into the funnel preventing the beer from flowing into the carboy resulting in obnoxious bubbling over. The "bubble over" gets all over the carboy and then I have to clean it off and my floor as well.

3. One time when using dry yeast I forgot to put the yeast in before filling the carboy with the wort and now it was literally stuck on top of all of the foam.

4. It makes a huge mess everywhere.



All of this for just so I don't have to rinse? NO THANKS



Does anyone else feel the same about it??
Click to expand...


You should consider using a smaller volume of StarSan and using it sooner so that the foam settles and allows you to empty more from your carboy.
Also, why are you using a funnel for racking your wort? You might be better served transferrin w/ tubing so you can avoid too much splashing.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
I am also not a fan of starsan for most things. I do find it somewhat handy to keep in a spray bottle for sanitizing that spoon that I may have dropped, or the pipette I use to take samples when checking for FG. Since it's fairly stable for long periods in sealed containers,it does have an advantage in that regard over iodophor.

But.. I hate it for bottles, carboys, kegs, for the same reasons you've stated. I definitely fear the foam. Also, whenever I've used it on carboys I can never get my damn stoppers to stay in - so I end up rinsing them, and drying the top opening of the carboy(which kind of renders the whole sanitizing routine useless).

It also fries the skin on my hands really bad, which iodophor doesn't do. Which brings me to another gripe about it - it is serious stuff in full concentration, to a point where it burned a permanent white mark into our kitchen floor and left a ring on our countertop. Iodophor may leave shirts and equipment stained, but I've never had it ruin countertop/floor. Stains on hard surfaces will usually scrub off with a little bar keepers friend.

Starsan works for a lot of folks though. Both work equally well as a no-rinse sanitizer, and both have their share of potential downsides depending on your brewing process.
 
Don't inhale it. It burns.

I usually use BEST. Starsan was on sale. So far, so good. Except for the burning if I breathe in some spray.

I've always rinsed. Chlorinated tap water is very clean.
 
I have always used Iodophor. Never had a problem. Running low on the big bottle and was seriously considering switching (to try something new). After reading all this, I think I'll stick with what works for me and get another big bottle.

On a side note, I ran into a fellow home brewer that is allergic to iodine. So it's good there are alternatives for people.
 
I love it, but I love the bubbles. Way I see it is if I have a keg/carboy full of bubbles any bug that floats in past my starsan soaked paper towel will land on a nice pillow of DEATH.

As far as not seeing keg fill below bubbles, I always cold crash, so I use the "frost line" on the keg as a marker as I fill.

Never had an issue with it damaging my skin.
 
Hmmmm...I've never had a problem with too much Starsan foam remaining in my carboys prior to racking. :)

images
 
Used Idophore for a long time, only thing I didn't care for was that it was a one use mix - so if I made 3gal, I usually pitched it and then had to make for sanitizing something else later on. Not a huge deal, but I didn't like the waste.

I'm currently trying an acid sanitizer that similiar to Starsan, but it's non-foaming. I think the trade name for it is TriSan. Not something you want to fool around with in concentrated form, diluted it's not bad at all.

The good thing is, it's a contact based acid sanitizer that has no taste at all and is clear. The bad thing is, it's got Nonic acid in it which stinks to high heaven - like baby puke stink. That smell doesn't show up in the beer, but man oh man did it have me worried I trashed a keg of beer.

The main reason for finding a non-foaming, acid sanitizer for sanitizing was to run it through the keg washer when processing kegs so I can have them primed and ready without a foam explosion in the keg/pump/tub. The fact I can hang on to it in a spare PET carboy for a while is nice too.

I picked up a gallon of it for 16 bucks, so I'm set for a long time if I still feel like using it.

YMMV.
 
I like Starsan. I agree it is hard on the skin, I use rubber gloves when sanitizing and regularly dip my hands in solution. If the foaming is a problem, there is a non foaming version called Saniclean made by the same company as Starsan. I have used it for about 2 years with not a problem. Before that I used bleach, now that stuff is nasty.
 
I think the problems your having with as is in the nature of how you work. The foam is an issue because carboys are narrow necked and can't drain easily. Your yeast should be rehydrated prior to pitching which fixes the other problem. I always use gloves, and would do regardless of what sanitizer I used. Ss isn't bad it just not optimal for your current practices
 
I have used Star San for years with not a single problem. If iodophor is what you use and have great results with, why change? Being an engineer by heart and trade, my next statement goes against everything I practice. "If it aint broke dont fix it"
 
Hahha I have to agree with the stopper issue. I get so angry when the stopper won't stay. Any tips guys?
 
If you want the advantages of StarSan but do not like foaming, you can use SaniClean instead. Just note that the dosing is different.

StarSan is my favorite sanitizer out of the three most commonly used ones (StarSan/SaniClean/Io-Star). The foam doesn't bother me.
 
If you don't like the bubbles, then rinse a little bit just like you would with rinse sanitizer (or really much less than you'd have to rinse to still feel safe about it being sanitized)

I have a sanitized water jug with water I use to add small amounts and pour out of the carboy, taking most of the foam with it.

Also I assume you're adding the star San to the water afterwards? If you add it first it will foam like crazy.
 
GABrewer1426 said:
I have always used Iodophor. Never had a problem. Running low on the big bottle and was seriously considering switching (to try something new).
Click to expand...

I also have only ever used Io-san, and while it always does the trick, I can't get over the staining of my equipment. All of my buckets and hoses take on a light orangey tint after I sanitize. I usually let them soak in Oxyclean free afterward to try and get the stains off, but it's still a pain every time. And as stated before, each time I use it, I have to dump it after, so if I fill a bucket with 2.5 gallons of water and io-san, not only does it stain my bucket, but I also have to dump out all the sanitizer when I'm done. I too am interested in switching to sanstar, just to give it a try.
 
I just bought some saniclean to try with my keg washer, not that I mind the foam in the keg so much, but with the washer the foam in the basin starts overflowing and I have to wait for it to settle before continuing.
 
I got a mouth full of StarSan water on Sunday. Don't ask how, but I wasn't thrilled about it. The foam on the other hand doesn't bother me at all. If anything, I like that I can see it all over everything, it tells me everything is in direct contact with the solution.

I've never had skin issues with it either. I routinely dip my hands in my 5gal starsan bucket when brewing.

Whatever works for you, I actually had an infection after using Iodine, and while I fully admit it was probably more likely due to my own experience at the time, I've not had any issues with Starsan. I also like starsan's measuring cup on the bottle.
 
I like Starsan, but not a big fan of residual foam. The foam that does not pour from my carboys, I will spray out with my Starsan filled spray bottle. The spray breaks up the foam and it drains right out.
 
I switched over to Starsan, love the convenience (used to use bleach water, which had never been a problem with a good heavy hot water rinse and dry) Foam is very rarely an issue, likely due to old habits - I'll sanitize my carboy, let it dry inverted on a carboy drain stand and let my sanitized bottles dry on a bottle tree....only foaming issue is when I don't plan ahead and sanitize on the fly, but no big deal.....and properly diluted, does not affect my skin at all, but...my hands are like leather...heh
 
I had a problem with the Starsan foam until I read a comment here on HBT. If you don't shake it up, it doesn't foam. I know some of the pump cleaning systems can't avoid that but for my process, I mix about a gallon (1/4 oz. Starsan) in the container (FV or keg) I'm sanitizing after it's clean. Then swish around without creating foam. Pour it out and you're done.
I don't have a problem with occasionally rinsing something that's been sanitized with clean tap water. I'm always sanitizing right before the vessel is being used.
And it is phosphoric acid, so be careful with the undiluted stuff.
 
I think my problem is that I like to shake the heck out of my carboy a couple times to make sure it is bug free. Being able to re-use it is a plus that i left out but besides keeping some in a spray bottle this would not be too practical for me.
 
I think you're using it wrong personally... You certainly don't need to be filling a whole carboy with starsan. Put .5 gallon or so in the gently roll the carboy letting the star San hit everything the dump the star san back into your sanitizer bucket. For kegs full it with 2.5 gallons of water .5 oz star san then shake it up and let it sit a minute. Pour of sanitizer into your bucket. Shake out extra bubble if there are a ton. (Which is only the case if you don't let it sit for a few minutes... I usually pump the sanitizer through the dip tube into a bucket and have minimal foam. As for the yeast problem imo you should be rehydrating it anyways and this wouldn't ever happen.
 
Thanks for the tips I guess will attempt a gentler rolling technique while I finish off this bottle of starsan.
 
I have never had the foam problems which you have described my friend. I do not use heavy glass carboys however. I take my plastic fermenters and remove the foam with a whipping motion until I feel satisfied that I have removed enough, I do not rinse. I don't think rinsing will hurt at all, however. I have never had an infection from using top-up water right from the sink. You could even rinse with a bit of cheap vodka if you wanted to.
 
I only use starsan and don't have an issue with the foam. But as previously mentioned, full strength will damage counter tops. Got lazy and didn't put away the starsan after mixing up a batch. Had a leaky bottle and now I've got damage
to my formica bar top. It doesn't stain but actually penetrates and raises the texture and bleaches the color. not happy about that.
 
The foam is a good thing IMO, sanitizes or re-sanitizes what ever it touches. Never had any chemical burns, it is food grade unlike iodophor. Any residual is food for the little yeasties. And what a time saver. Used both bleach and iodophor in the past. No need to go back to that..

But as many have said use what works for you. One of the best things about homebrewing is there are many ways to get from kettle to bottle/keg.

Salute!
 
I think starsan is terrific, I think you should modify your technique toward easy use of starsan like the rest of us do, be a little bit flexible, maybe different techniques from what may be your norm.
 
I second the comment about rehydrating dry yeast. There is evidence out there against making full on starters with dry yeast, but just rehydrating is a great practice. If nothing else, starsan or not, it's easier to mix in rehydrated yeast than dry yeast.
 
Yea, StarSan is the worst!... Except for every other sanitizer out there...


At the end of the day you have to use something. Some sanitizers leave residue behind, some need to be rinsed, many leave terrible off flavors for batches and batches to come if you use them in too high of a concentration (iodine and chlorine taste BEYOND TERRIBLE even at insanely low concentrations), some sanitizers aren't recommended on stainless, others aren't recommended on aluminum; some don't store very long. Some require a long soak time to work. Professional santizers are insanely dangerous and scary in their stored concentrated form and some smell intensely like vinegar long after you've finished using them.

StarSan just works and via two methods; can be sprayed on and works within seconds. The foam is an added bonus, IMHO as it keeps the vessel in contact with the sanitizer longer. It's SUPER safe and works on everything without rinsing. It even breaks down to become yeast food. It turns cloudy when it's no longer working properly.

The cost is the only issue, but as long as you use it properly, it should last quite a while; even longer if you have super soft water like mine so that it stores well even after being dilluted.



IMO, the only problem with StarSan is it's cost.


Adam
 
Obviously use what ever works for you but as far as the OP's complaints about starsan, he/she must doing it wrong :). The only real drawback to starsan is that it cannot be pumped because of its foaming action. Possibly also a skin reaction in some people but I've never had any problems with direct skin contact in its dilute state. Dilute starsan is safe to drink a pint of. A couple ideas:

Make transfers with a siphon and don't use a funnel ESPECIALLY after primary is complete. Use less starsan solution to sanitize your vessels. It is a contact sanitizer and you don't need much for it to be effective. Be more gentle with it, don't shake shake shake, just swirl it around; the time for being aggressive was when you were cleaning. Let the foam settle for a while and dump off what collects after this period of rest. Calibrate your vessels so you know how much volume you are transfering BEFORE starting rather than trying to eyeball it in the keg. I have sprinkled dry yeast onto remaining starsan foam both in the fermentor with beer and in a jar with water for rehydration. Neither instance affected yeast health in a way that was perceptible in the fermentation. Just a couple ideas.

Starsan is awesome and I will never switch back to iodophor.
 
grainbill said:
The foam is a good thing IMO, sanitizes or re-sanitizes what ever it touches. Never had any chemical burns, it is food grade unlike iodophor. Any residual is food for the little yeasties. And what a time saver. Used both bleach and iodophor in the past. No need to go back to that..

But as many have said use what works for you. One of the best things about homebrewing is there are many ways to get from kettle to bottle/keg.

Salute!
Click to expand...

Idophor is food grade. It's used all the time in the milk industry as well as other food processing enviroments - not to mention hospital enviroments.

Idophor is good to go if used in the correct concentration.

:rockin:
 
Wow. I've been using B-Bright that came with my original starter kit as a no-rinse sanitizer. My LHBS told me to do so. It leaves A LOT of residue. Perhaps I should consider using something else.
 
chawn said:
Wow. I've been using B-Bright that came with my original starter kit as a no-rinse sanitizer. My LHBS told me to do so. It leaves A LOT of residue. Perhaps I should consider using something else.
Click to expand...


While B-Brite does have some sanitation capabilities, it is generally considered as more of a cleaning agent than a sanitizer. And yeah, the residue is pretty bad.

I started off using B-Brite, then bleach, then idophor... After I tried Star San, I've seen no reason to use anything else ever again. It truly is a great product, and indispensible.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
 
The first time I walked into my LHBS, I had 'sanitizer' on my list. I asked the owner, and he pointed to a shelf holding Star San and IO Star: "I only carry two kinds. Personally I use the one on the right; I hate the way the other stuff foams." I've been using IO Star ever since.

At an ounce to every five gallons of water, I can't complain about the cost; a quart bottle of it will make 160 gallons for about eight cents a gallon. And I normally use a squirt bottle instead of a bucket... yeah, it turns my vinyl tubing a little orange if I make it too strong, but I don't care. I usually replace the tubing regularly anyway, because I keep cutting it for one reason or another, losing it, or swiping it for other projects.
 
sumbrewindude said:
Idophor is food grade. It's used all the time in the milk industry as well as other food processing enviroments - not to mention hospital enviroments.

Idophor is good to go if used in the correct concentration.

:rockin:
Click to expand...

Generally other sanitisers are more commonplace nowdays in food processing. I have seen a report that New Zealanders are actually more iodine deficient since the milk industry switched to nitric / peroxide based sanitisers since the trace iodine from the iodine based santisier is no longer in the milk!
 

Similar threads

_Keven
Question on if this mold made it into my fermenter
Replies
3
Views
549
hotbeer
hotbeer
Bilbo24
Bavarian Hefe not bubbling????
Replies
17
Views
1K
SFC Rudy
SFC Rudy
Rick Crane
Cold crash Captain's Ration Stout
Replies
6
Views
319
Rick Crane
Rick Crane
Tony B
Curious fermentation
Replies
15
Views
824
redrocker652002
R
Bilbo24
First brew in a long time. Questions??
Replies
11
Views
1K
camonick
camonick

Latest posts

Back
Top