anyone done a brew in a bag

[ShinyBuddha]

I smell troll....or is that hops. The signal to noise ratio is getting outta hand in here.

 

[Cromwell]

It doesn't sound like anyone is really considering the viability of what you're proposing, which surprises me a little. Maybe it'll be awful, but maybe it won't. I've done a hop-bursted beer where I didn't put any hops in until 5 minutes, so you can get some utilization with just a few minutes. I assume if you boil for one minute, you might have the hops in there during the ramp-up and ramp-down stages which might mean as much as 20 minutes or more in hot liquid, which is plenty of time for bitterness, especially if you're doing a bock. I'd be a little concerned that in order to sterilize water, we're told to boil for at least 15 minutes, so any less time than that and you might find infection is a problem. DMS is less of a problem if you're not using Pilsner malt, or even extract. So if you're intent on this, you might have to pay careful attention to your style, and why a short boil might enhance that style. I don't think "freshness" is diminished through boiling, and especially if you're using extract. I suspect if you want a raw taste, you just want to use barley as lightly kilned as possible. Just my 2 cents.

 

[ThePonchoKid]

barley as lightly kilned as possible? is there a name for that? i'm doing all grain btw

it doesn't surprise me that no one is considering the viability. they're all old timers here. they no doubt have tons of knowledge and wisdom. less so ideas

i might not be able to get 30 ibu reasonably on a 1 min boil, but i can on 3 min

as for DMS, the document that i was linked to never described definitively how much there is or how much of a problem it is. So I don't see the problem in giving this a try

 

[ThePonchoKid]

I smell troll....or is that hops. The signal to noise ratio is getting outta hand in here.

No trolling here. I just became a little irreverent when I picked up on the presumptions and tenor of some of the replies.

 

[ThePonchoKid]

You could make a Berliner Weiss,.... If you are interested in what the effects of a minimal boil would be, that would be one way to find out.

thanks!

 

[BrewKnurd]

it doesn't surprise me that no one is considering the viability. they're all old timers here. they no doubt have tons of knowledge and wisdom. less so ideas

There's no reason to assume that people who are experienced are short of ideas. Just because they presented a number of very reasonable concerns does not mean they're stick-in-the-mud fuddy duddies. They're trying to help. I don't think insulting people who are trying to help is the best plan, but you may disagree.

I mean, I could call brewing a beer using tomato soup for mash water and fermenting at 120 degrees an idea, but it doesn't mean that people shouldn't point out why that might be a problem.

i might not be able to get 30 ibu reasonably on a 1 min boil, but i can on 3 min

You certainly can. You will end up with tons of hop aroma and flavor, which may be exactly what you want, and depending on style, could be awesome. You may potentially end up with some vegetal notes just based on the large amount of hopping, but maybe not.

as for DMS, the document that i was linked to never described definitively how much there is or how much of a problem it is. So I don't see the problem in giving this a try

No one told you not to try it. They gave you reasons why it might not work. DMS is one of them. Depending on the beer you make, it may not be an issue at all. The stronger the flavors in your beer (including the massive hop flavor discussed above), the less likely you are to notice DMS.

While I agree that "its always been done this way" is not the end all and be all as far as how things should be done, its worth considering that there's typically a reason why things are done as they are. If microbreweries felt they could cut 55 minutes off each batch by doing a 5 minute boil, they would have a financial incentive to do so. However, I don't believe any of them are (none that I know if). So while its possible that you have come up with a brilliant plan, it seems more likely that some of the concerns others have raised explain why its not done commercially.

But certainly, good luck with your endeavor. I, for one, would be quite curious to hear how it turns out.

 

[duboman]

Just trying to get a fresher more raw taste.

Then just grind up a bunch of grain, sprinkle some hop pellets on top add some milk and call it breakfast cereal

 

[ThePonchoKid]

bailey's imo

 

[madchemist83]

U can probably do it with supercritical water. Just add some boson lasers and u got urself perfect system. I can see advertisement in near future "From grain to glass in an hour". But seriously ... Why? What's the point of 1 min boil? Maybe do 10 hour boil .. See how that works out for ya

 

[william_shakes_beer]

In the interest of civility...; To the OP, I presume if you tinkered with the recipie you probably could approximate a reasonable beer doing a 1 minute boil. As stated above, you'd have to adjust the hops, and proteins would be much higer along with the DMS issue. Perhaps this could be solved by adjusting the grain bill? I suggest you do a few and see how it works for you. Personally, I believe that the process used for hundreds of years is probably a good place for a novice like me to start, But hey, there was a babylonian somehere that left some grains out in a jar, they go rained on and then baked in the sun. Fermentation took place and the rest is history. Perhaps if that babylonian had instead left that same jar on a fire for a while, we'd be brewing in an entirely different manner. Pleasee let us know what your results were

 

[ajf]

barley as lightly kilned as possible? is there a name for that? i'm doing all grain btw

Yes, it's called pilsner malt which produces more DMS than any other malt.

it doesn't surprise me that no one is considering the viability. they're all old timers here. they no doubt have tons of knowledge and wisdom. less so ideas

If you think that ignorance is a substitute for knowledge and wisdom, then I feel sorry for you.

In my opinion, those who have expressed reservations about your suggestion have considered the viability, and that is why they expressed reservations.

might not be able to get 30 ibu reasonably on a 1 min boil, but i can on 3 min

I wouldn't be too sure about that. IBU calculators may indicate that you can, but they are just guesstimators based on assumptions that you are following commonly accepted practices, which you aren't.

as for DMS, the document that i was linked to never described definitively how much there is or how much of a problem it is. So I don't see the problem in giving this a try

Just because one link doesn't give you the information that you think you need, doesn't mean that the information is not available.
Principle of Brewing Science by George Fix gives this information, and I suspect a Google search would also provide it.

If you are still set on following up on your idea, I suggest you do a google search on boiling wort. That will confirm all the reservations expressed in this thread, as well as introducing a whole bunch of other reasons why you should not try this.

-a.

 

[joshareed]

If you're interested in this idea, I'd definitely check out a Berliner Weisse. Mine is 70/30 pilsner/wheat, no boil. Not a single of the 12 score sheets I got from competitions, including NHC regional and final rounds mentioned DMS.

 

[Leithoa]

The reason the HBTwiki and I would bet any BYO or other article on DMS don't give definitive answers on how much DMS/precursors to expect is that it is heavily dependent on not only the degree of kilning(pilsner vs. pale vs roasted) but also the entire malting process. The levels of precursors are going to vary maltster to maltster and possibly even batch to batch. The only way to say for sure how much DMS to expect would be to get a hold of the lab assay for the specific lot of grain you will be using. This probably isn't feasible on a batch scale as most homebrew supply shops probably don't request nor keep any analysis document that come with their grain. They also probably don't keep lots of grain separate so it would be hard if not impossible to guarantee that you are getting the grain you have data for if they did hold onto the documents.
You might be able to get this data if you order grain in bulk but I'm guessing you don't.
Another option is to use the almost assured presence of DMS as part of your goal. There are styles where DMS is a desirable flavor. German Lagers for one. Really dark stouts are able to cover up DMS with lots of roasted grains
Back to the issue of hop utilization you would be advised to make use of first wort hopping (http://www.brew365.com/technique_firstworthopping.php). But again you won't get the smooth bitterness that comes with a long boil. The flavor and aroma will be there.
You're going to have to go through the BJCP style guides and figure out what flavor profiles you like that change the weaknesses of this technique into strengths/goals.
This beer is going to be a low bitter beer with noticeable DMS character. You could go with a sweet stout, or a Munich Helles. There are others but I don't know what style of beer you like.
Personally if I were doing a 1 minute boil, I'd to a partial mash using pre-bittered liquid extract and first wort hopping so I cna take advantage of the 15-20 minutes it takes to get things up to a boil.

 

[TopherM]

I'm laughing all the way through this thread. It reminded me of this gem:

Hitchhiker: You heard of this thing, the 8-Minute Abs?
Ted: Yeah, sure, 8-Minute Abs. Yeah, the excercise video.
Hitchhiker: Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: 7... Minute... Abs.
Ted: Right. Yes. OK, all right. I see where you're going.
Hitchhiker: Think about it. You walk into a video store, you see 8-Minute Abs sittin' there, there's 7-Minute Abs right beside it. Which one are you gonna pick, man?
Ted: I would go for the 7.
Hitchhiker: Bingo, man, bingo. 7-Minute Abs. And we guarantee just as good a workout as the 8-minute folk.
Ted: You guarantee it? That's - how do you do that?
Hitchhiker: If you're not happy with the first 7 minutes, we're gonna send you the extra minute free. You see? That's it. That's our motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from "A" to "B".
Ted: That's right. That's - that's good. That's good. Unless, of course, somebody comes up with 6-Minute Abs. Then you're in trouble, huh?
Hitchhiker: No! No, no, not 6! I said 7. Nobody's comin' up with 6. Who works out in 6 minutes? You won't even get your heart goin, not even a mouse on a wheel.
Ted: That - good point.
Hitchhiker: 7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 dwarves. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.
Ted: Why?
Hitchhiker: 'Cause you're f*ckin' fired!

 

[gbx]

with regards to DMS. I don't think it will be an issue. Pilsner malt has a lot of dms precursor but the boiling is what converts it to DMS. skip the boil, no dms (which is why people can do no boil berliner weisse). Grain is cheap so give it a try if you really want to. That said, if you are trying to save time, skip the mash and get some malt extract. If you want to save even more time, buy a wort in a bag or pre-hopped extract kit and I'm sure your results will be better. ...or save even more time and go to the store and buy commercially produced beer.

 

[madchemist83]

And if u want to save time gettin drunk just butt chug a beer .. It's a new thing to do ....

 

[danielbt]

...the boiling is what converts it to DMS.

...no. Boiling drives off DMS precursors via volatilizing, which is also one of the reasons why you leave the lid off the brew kettle while boiling.

Precursors are created between 140F-180F...i.e., mashing temps.

 

[ODI3]

From my understanding, it takes 20 min to sterylize everything in your kettle. So I wouldnt even consider anything less than 20 min, 30 to be safe.

 

[Domes]

1 min boil brew?

I'm temped to try this.

How much water would I need for 10lbs of grain at 5.25 gal after a 1 min boil? 5.6 gal?

That's probably a little low, but close. About a half gallon. I've done one minute boils for both a Berliner Weisse and Lambic. No need to boil if your not adding hop bitterness. Precursors for DMS don't for until you start boiling.

 

[ThePonchoKid]

No need to boil if your not adding hop bitterness. Precursors for DMS don't for until you start boiling.

And as already mentioned there are ways to add hop bitterness.

I'd probably pre boil and pre hop the water, get it to mash temps and add grain.

I'm going to try a 1 gallon batch, standard ale. I might even rinse the grains prior to mashing. Maybe even rinse them with starsan.

 

[tjash]

You could simultaneously cook a chicken breast for 1 minute too. That's an idea.

Your beer will probably be at high "flavor" by the time you recover from salmonella.

 

[Domes]

Not sure how long you've been brewing tjash but if you do some research you'll find some pretty skilled Berliner Weiss brewers don't boil at all. I boil for 1 minute. This sterilizes the wort and since you are not adding any bitterness from the hops with this style, you don't need to boil it. I've done this now with Lambics I make and it works very well. I wouldn't do this with other styles that you want to extract hop bitternees. But it works well for low hopped beers.