Any Sabco Brew Magic Users Out There?

[Catt22]

Not really. Best I've gotten so far is 70% but I usually run 65%. Calculations based on beerSmith.

In other news, we've added a copper diffuser plate to the end of the return hose and suspend this over the mash. Allows for a thicker mash and tends to get recirculation and sparge over the entire grain bed as opposed to channeling down the sides.

IMO, you should be able to easily get 80-90% efficiency out of your BM and possibly more than that. First thing I would do is run the efficiency calculation manually and check it against BeerSmith's number. It's very easy to do manually. There may be some unseen factor in the BeerSmith calculations that are throwing it off. Maybe not, but worth checking.

I used to get very mediocre efficiency in the 65-75% range for a long time, with the occasional exception where it was much higher for no apparent reason. I finally figured out that there was a channeling problem. It was not obvious and it was not consistent from batch to batch. I solved the problem by thoroughly stirring the grain bed at every rest and especially immediately before beginning the sparge. I also do a mashout and I sparge very slowly. I've learned to stir the grain bed well at the end of the mash out, then resume circulation SLOWLY for a brief vorlaugh to clear the wort (5-10 min or so). The slow circulation at this point helps to avoid re-consolidating the grain bed just prior to the sparge. A properly set grain bed is not the same as a compacted grain bed. Channeling is the unseen killer of efficiency IMO.

Also, if you maintain an inch or two of water over the grain bed, the sparge water will naturally disperse. Typically, the hot water is added very slowly when fly sparging and how you deliver it to the MT is not critical. It would be different if the water were entering at a high velocity.

 

[checker]

IMO, you should be able to easily get 80-90% efficiency out of your BM and possibly more than that. First thing I would do is run the efficiency calculation manually and check it against BeerSmith's number. It's very easy to do manually. There may be some unseen factor in the BeerSmith calculations that are throwing it off. Maybe not, but worth checking.

I used to get very mediocre efficiency in the 65-75% range for a long time, with the occasional exception where it was much higher for no apparent reason. I finally figured out that there was a channeling problem. It was not obvious and it was not consistent from batch to batch. I solved the problem by thoroughly stirring the grain bed at every rest and especially immediately before beginning the sparge. I also do a mashout and I sparge very slowly. I've learned to stir the grain bed well at the end of the mash out, then resume circulation SLOWLY for a brief vorlaugh to clear the wort (5-10 min or so). The slow circulation at this point helps to avoid re-consolidating the grain bed just prior to the sparge. A properly set grain bed is not the same as a compacted grain bed. Channeling is the unseen killer of efficiency IMO.

Also, if you maintain an inch or two of water over the grain bed, the sparge water will naturally disperse. Typically, the hot water is added very slowly when fly sparging and how you deliver it to the MT is not critical. It would be different if the water were entering at a high velocity.

Thanks for the tips. I recognize the need to do a manual check of the efficiency reading, just getting lazy I guess.

I've avoided stirring the mash for a few reasons. The user's manual for the fixture discourages it and I've read a couple of horror stories on collapsed false bottoms. Also, I'm just out of our base-lining phase of the fixture so have been limiting variations in my procedure. The copper diffuser plate was a one-variable experiment that admittedly had no effect on the efficiency. A second experiment, where I added a mashout, yielded similar disappointing results. Next session I'll start stirring and skip the mashout. Don't think my sparge rate is too high...maybe 1/2 hour to transfer to my target volume, ~13 gal for a 10 gallon batch.

 

[Catt22]

I've avoided stirring the mash for a few reasons. The user's manual for the fixture discourages it and I've read a couple of horror stories on collapsed false bottoms. Also, I'm just out of our base-lining phase of the fixture so have been limiting variations in my procedure. The copper diffuser plate was a one-variable experiment that admittedly had no effect on the efficiency. A second experiment, where I added a mashout, yielded similar disappointing results. Next session I'll start stirring and skip the mashout. Don't think my sparge rate is too high...maybe 1/2 hour to transfer to my target volume, ~13 gal for a 10 gallon batch.

1. IMO & IME there is absolutely nothing to fear about stirring the grain bed. IIRC, I read somewhere that many commercial breweries stir the mash continuously during the conversion.

2. I would not skip the mash out step. It made a difference with my system and it can't do any harm. IMO, if there is any significant channeling going on, the mash out may not make any difference.

3. IMO again, you are sparging too fast. Slow it down to at least 45 minutes and preferably an hour or more. The general rule of thumb is about a quart per minute.

4. The Sabco false bottoms are very strong. I don't think you have to worry about collapsing it. I use a Sabco FB occasionally on my buddies system and we've applied max suction to the point of a completely stuck mash more than a few times and the FB held up just fine. I have collapsed other off brand/home made false bottoms, but never the Sabco.

5. Regarding channeling and this is just my opinion, nothing more. Some channeling will inevitably occur no matter what. It can be exceedingly subtle at times, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. It can happen when circulating the wort a la RIMS, HERMS etc or when fly sparging. It's generally not a problem when batch sparging. So, my point is that stirring the grain bed is the only way I know of to mitigate the channeling and it works for me. As I previously mentioned, my efficiency was all over the place before I began the stirring routine.

 

[luke2080]

Well we brewed the first batch on Sabco last night. A breakdown and my thoughts (positive and negative). I should also interject I still haven't finished the user manual, or their CD that came with this. So user error may well be prevelant. I didn't have time to read.

Protein rest was easy. My hot water on tap is 122*, so adding that to the HLT with my chemical additions, then swapping water over to the Mash was a breeze. (Side note - I started with 10 G in the HLT, and used chemicals for that amount. Then I really only transferred about 6G to the MT for the Mash. I figure, hey, the rate for the mash is accurate, and I have some extra chemicals in the HLT, that will get watered down when I add more water for the sparge. I have no idea if this is the right approach..... but my Mash PH should have been good)

I did a 4 step mash. Protein rest, Sacch at 145* for 40 minutes, Sacch at 154* for 40, then a Mash Out for 10. Getting from the Protein Rest to the next step took over 30 minutes. I kept the flame low, and stirred occassionally, while the water was constantly recirculating. Maybe I should have kicked the flame a little higher? Was worried of scorching the wort. Trust me, I scorched nothing. Added maybe 90 minutes to my brew day though which you will see if you keep readin.

The problem with the Brew Magic is like others have said. The burner on the MT effects the water pipe going to the digital thermometer. So the control panel will say you have overshot the temperate "Turn Off Burner!". But once the burner is off, the temp drops 8-10 degrees. Then you need to turn the burner back on, as the electric heating element isn't strong and won't warm it up that far. Its a back and forth struggle.

After that step, it took about another 30 minutes to go from 145 to 154*. And really, the first 10 minutes that I counted for that mash step, it fluctuated from 150 to 158. Once the system dials in, its great. But, its tough to get it dialed in.

Took about 30 more minutes to go from 154* to 168* for my mashout. At this point, I'm also heating the water in the HLT to get that to 168 for my fly sparge. That effects the temperature reading of the Tun thanks to heating the pipes around it.

Normally - I would have increased my step temp with water from the HLT. I think the lesson learned here is, start with little less water in my protein rest. Add a quart of 180* water or so from the HLT to help the burner and electric kick up the heat, and do that again for a next step. Just a Quart, not to add too much water, but to get the temp moving. (Hopefully heating it up doesn't effect the stability of the temperature in the Mash though...worried about that)

Sparging - OOPS. Was too worried about keeping the pump "full". Ran off the first 3 gallons (ok, maybe 5) from the Mash in like 5 minutes. Grain bed was exposed. So I slowed that, and kicked up the water from HLT. 5 minutes later - OOPS. Had put in like 5 gallons of HL into the Mash. Way too much water. Finally got it more dialed in after that. But I ran out of water in the HLT when collecting the last 1 or 2 gallons, and finished sparging in about 25 minutes. I did check the gravity at 11 G (collected 13) and I was at 1016. So still good. But I'm sure that last gallon was much closer to straight water. This was all me not being ready to handle the system though.

As this was the first 10 gallon batch we've ever done, learned a lesson on how long it takes to use an IC to cool on an 85 degree day. Took a bit more then twice as long as normal. Usually done in 20 was done in 50 minutes. Gonna have to get a pump to pump some super chilled water through....

When all was said and done, I was targeting 75% efficiency, despite normally getting 69% on the old setup. Hit 78.5%, and my sparging was terrible. No stuck mash. No explosions.

I did smell burning a couple of times. I'll check the heating element later to see how much wort may have burned there.

Some quick improvements by Sabco would go a long way:
*Put more guards around the burner, don't let that heat other pipes and effect the temperature readings!
*Use a little stronger heating element.
*The burner on the boil kettle sucks. It is different then the HLT and MT. It was quick to 200*, then took a good 20 minutes, maybe longer, from that point.
*The physical Thermometer on the MLT is right next to the digital probe for the electronic controller. Should always read the same, even =/- 0.5 degrees due to timing. But they were consistently 3-4 degrees off. I'm calling to b*tch about that this week.

After having this, and using it, I wish I was technical enough and had the time to build this. The problem for me would be the software/controller. If you can build this yourself, its just a pump with one heating element. But I'm pretty happy with this. We'll see how it works once I read the instructions and better learn the system.

 

[brewtime]

Some quick improvements by Sabco would go a long way:

*The physical Thermometer on the MLT is right next to the digital probe for the electronic controller. Should always read the same, even =/- 0.5 degrees due to timing. But they were consistently 3-4 degrees off. I'm calling to b*tch about that this week.

.

The problem with the dial thermometer is the probe is way too short. I do not have the SABCO system i do have their MT incorporated into my Brutus build. I had the ports custom placed on the MT to allow it to fit in to the brewery flow. I have noticed that the MT thermometer will show 10-15 degrees cooler than my temp prob. The first few times I brewed with it I was constantly trying adjust my mash temps for the two data points to mesh. I finally bought a lab thermometer and stuck it in the middle of the grain bed and wa-la both temps. probe and lab therm. both matched.

a simple solution to this problem is for SABCO to make the dial thermometer a 6 inch probe instead of a 2 inc prob. the reason being after you take into account the TC port and the fittings that thermometer probe barely protrudes into the kettle itself.

 

[luke2080]

The problem with the dial thermometer is the probe is way too short. I do not have the SABCO system i do have their MT incorporated into my Brutus build. I had the ports custom placed on the MT to allow it to fit in to the brewery flow. I have noticed that the MT thermometer will show 10-15 degrees cooler than my temp prob. The first few times I brewed with it I was constantly trying adjust my mash temps for the two data points to mesh. I finally bought a lab thermometer and stuck it in the middle of the grain bed and wa-la both temps. probe and lab therm. both matched.

a simple solution to this problem is for SABCO to make the dial thermometer a 6 inch probe instead of a 2 inc prob. the reason being after you take into account the TC port and the fittings that thermometer probe barely protrudes into the kettle itself.

Ahh, good point. But you are saying that the digital probe, placed where Sabco places it on the Brew Magic, is lined up with the probe you stuck right in the mash? If so, thats good news for me. I should throw the old floating thermometer into the mash next time to help calibrate/verify.

For the dial thermometer, it doesn't go right into the MT, but the piping right off of it, which should be the same temp. If the dital probe is accurate, I don't care about the dial thermometer right there. It is then an annoying spot for wort to build up. I ran cleaner through the system, then rinsed the system, took off that dial thermometer, and wort was resting inside of the hole for it. So that spot doesn't clean well, nor does it take an accurate temp.

 

[Catt22]

Well we brewed the first batch on Sabco last night. A breakdown and my thoughts (positive and negative). I should also interject I still haven't finished the user manual, or their CD that came with this. So user error may well be prevelant. I didn't have time to read.

Protein rest was easy. My hot water on tap is 122*, so adding that to the HLT with my chemical additions, then swapping water over to the Mash was a breeze. (Side note - I started with 10 G in the HLT, and used chemicals for that amount. Then I really only transferred about 6G to the MT for the Mash. I figure, hey, the rate for the mash is accurate, and I have some extra chemicals in the HLT, that will get watered down when I add more water for the sparge. I have no idea if this is the right approach..... but my Mash PH should have been good)

I did a 4 step mash. Protein rest, Sacch at 145* for 40 minutes, Sacch at 154* for 40, then a Mash Out for 10. Getting from the Protein Rest to the next step took over 30 minutes. I kept the flame low, and stirred occassionally, while the water was constantly recirculating. Maybe I should have kicked the flame a little higher? Was worried of scorching the wort. Trust me, I scorched nothing. Added maybe 90 minutes to my brew day though which you will see if you keep readin.

The problem with the Brew Magic is like others have said. The burner on the MT effects the water pipe going to the digital thermometer. So the control panel will say you have overshot the temperate "Turn Off Burner!". But once the burner is off, the temp drops 8-10 degrees. Then you need to turn the burner back on, as the electric heating element isn't strong and won't warm it up that far. Its a back and forth struggle.

After that step, it took about another 30 minutes to go from 145 to 154*. And really, the first 10 minutes that I counted for that mash step, it fluctuated from 150 to 158. Once the system dials in, its great. But, its tough to get it dialed in.

Took about 30 more minutes to go from 154* to 168* for my mashout. At this point, I'm also heating the water in the HLT to get that to 168 for my fly sparge. That effects the temperature reading of the Tun thanks to heating the pipes around it.

Normally - I would have increased my step temp with water from the HLT. I think the lesson learned here is, start with little less water in my protein rest. Add a quart of 180* water or so from the HLT to help the burner and electric kick up the heat, and do that again for a next step. Just a Quart, not to add too much water, but to get the temp moving. (Hopefully heating it up doesn't effect the stability of the temperature in the Mash though...worried about that)

Sparging - OOPS. Was too worried about keeping the pump "full". Ran off the first 3 gallons (ok, maybe 5) from the Mash in like 5 minutes. Grain bed was exposed. So I slowed that, and kicked up the water from HLT. 5 minutes later - OOPS. Had put in like 5 gallons of HL into the Mash. Way too much water. Finally got it more dialed in after that. But I ran out of water in the HLT when collecting the last 1 or 2 gallons, and finished sparging in about 25 minutes. I did check the gravity at 11 G (collected 13) and I was at 1016. So still good. But I'm sure that last gallon was much closer to straight water. This was all me not being ready to handle the system though.

As this was the first 10 gallon batch we've ever done, learned a lesson on how long it takes to use an IC to cool on an 85 degree day. Took a bit more then twice as long as normal. Usually done in 20 was done in 50 minutes. Gonna have to get a pump to pump some super chilled water through....

When all was said and done, I was targeting 75% efficiency, despite normally getting 69% on the old setup. Hit 78.5%, and my sparging was terrible. No stuck mash. No explosions.

I did smell burning a couple of times. I'll check the heating element later to see how much wort may have burned there.

Some quick improvements by Sabco would go a long way:
*Put more guards around the burner, don't let that heat other pipes and effect the temperature readings!
*Use a little stronger heating element.
*The burner on the boil kettle sucks. It is different then the HLT and MT. It was quick to 200*, then took a good 20 minutes, maybe longer, from that point.
*The physical Thermometer on the MLT is right next to the digital probe for the electronic controller. Should always read the same, even =/- 0.5 degrees due to timing. But they were consistently 3-4 degrees off. I'm calling to b*tch about that this week.

After having this, and using it, I wish I was technical enough and had the time to build this. The problem for me would be the software/controller. If you can build this yourself, its just a pump with one heating element. But I'm pretty happy with this. We'll see how it works once I read the instructions and better learn the system.

Here's my critique:

1. I would avoid using water right out of a hot tap. I don't recall why this is not a good idea, but IIRC that's what the general consensus was at the time. You also don't want to run hot water through a carbon filter IIRC.

2. Heat your strike water in the MT. No need to transfer it from the HLT. Just fill the MT directly from the git go. This eliminates the need to compensate for the kettle thermal mass.

3. You should be able to ramp up the temp at about 2*/min. The trick is to circulate the wort as fast as you dare while running the burner as high as you can. This is easier said than done as you risk a compacted grain bed and/or overheating the wort. Turn the burner down/off as you approach your target temp so you don't overshoot. This takes some experience to get the hang of. I automated my burner for the same reason. I did not like the constant attention the manually operated MT burner demanded.

4. Your sparge was way too fast. Between that, letting the grain bed run partially dry and subsequently adding too much additional sparge water I'm surprised you got the 78.5% which is pretty good. You should easily be able to get another 10 points if you avoid those issues.

5. You should not have a problem with the pump running dry while sparging if you control the flow rate on the output side of the pump. It may run dry if the grain bed gets completely stuck, but at that point you would have to stop and stir anyway. Otherwise set the flow rate as fast as you can get away with. That can be challenging to get right.

6. When stirring the grain bed, circulation should be stopped with both the MT burner and the electric hex turned off. After stirring, re-start the circulation and resume applying heat as desired. I never stir the grain bed while the wort is circulating as I don't want any suction of the FB while I'm getting the mash mixed up. This helps keep grain particles from being forced through the FB.

7. IIRC, most add brewing salts etc only to the MT and not to the sparge water. The conversion is over by the time you begin the sparge, so as long as your tap water is otherwise suitable, no need to add chemicals to the sparge water. Obviously, if your HLT water will also be your strike water you would have no choice but to treat both. I don't think there's a downside to doing it that way.

8. I gave up on the Bi-metal dial thermometers long ago and never looked back. They are notoriously temperamental. I hate 'em.

 

[checker]

<snip>
The problem with the Brew Magic is like others have said. The burner on the MT effects the water pipe going to the digital thermometer. So the control panel will say you have overshot the temperate "Turn Off Burner!". But once the burner is off, the temp drops 8-10 degrees. Then you need to turn the burner back on, as the electric heating element isn't strong and won't warm it up that far. Its a back and forth struggle.
<snip>
Sparging - OOPS. Was too worried about keeping the pump "full". Ran off the first 3 gallons (ok, maybe 5) from the Mash in like 5 minutes. Grain bed was exposed. So I slowed that, and kicked up the water from HLT. 5 minutes later - OOPS. Had put in like 5 gallons of HL into the Mash. Way too much water. Finally got it more dialed in after that. But I ran out of water in the HLT when collecting the last 1 or 2 gallons, and finished sparging in about 25 minutes. I did check the gravity at 11 G (collected 13) and I was at 1016. So still good. But I'm sure that last gallon was much closer to straight water. This was all me not being ready to handle the system though.
<snip>
*The burner on the boil kettle sucks. It is different then the HLT and MT. It was quick to 200*, then took a good 20 minutes, maybe longer, from that point.

I haven't experienced the burner/pipe proximity problem. My biggest challenge is allowing the reading on the controller to exceed my target by 5* or so before the controller indicates that the burner should be shut off. After a few minute of recirc, the temp seems to stabilize on my target.

My first round on the system resulted in 7 1/2 gallons in the ferm. for a 5 gallon batch due to the HLT/MT/Boiler juggle. A little grainy but not too bad really.

Couldn't agree more on the boiler burner. We finally moved our fixture indoors as the slightest breeze was causing soot and lost boil. Figure that between CO poisoning and a frustrating brew session, the former was the lesser of the 2 evils .

 

[luke2080]

Catt, great feedback, thanks. I'll take that into account.

One question, whats the problem with using hot water out of the tap? I did treat it with gypsum and calcium chloride, via Palmers updated water profile calculator and BeerSmith. I'll have to look that one up.

And on my sparge, yeah I screwed that one up. I'm sure I'll dial that in on the next batch. My big concern is just hitting my efficiency consistently. If that happens to be 85+, I'll be all the happier.

 

[luke2080]

and a quick 30 second search gave me info on that hot tap water. Its an issue if you have chlorine in the water (I don't) and if you are using a hot water tank. Buildup from the heating element and such. I'm in an old house. The hot water is coming from the same place as the cold, just running through the furnace first.

But, I've always brewed coffee using cold tap water, since that is what I was told. I'll switch it up, get cool water into the MT, treat it, heat it up, and go.

 

[Catt22]

Catt, great feedback, thanks. I'll take that into account.

One question, whats the problem with using hot water out of the tap? I did treat it with gypsum and calcium chloride, via Palmers updated water profile calculator and BeerSmith. I'll have to look that one up.

And on my sparge, yeah I screwed that one up. I'm sure I'll dial that in on the next batch. My big concern is just hitting my efficiency consistently. If that happens to be 85+, I'll be all the happier.

I really don't remember what the downside was to using hot tap water. Just something I read on one of the forums long ago. It may not be true. Perhaps one of the water experts will help us out with that question. I have no choice as I run my brewing water through a carbon filter and you are not supposed to do that with hot water.

I agree that consistency is important, but to achieve that you have to at least somewhat standardize your basic brewing methods. That's one of the reasons that my efficiencies were all over the place. I didn't have a very consistent brewing pattern. My procedures have sort of evolved over time. Lots of time actually. Now I'm settled in around 85% most of the time and that's right where I want to be.

 

[jamcclureuk]

Here's my critique:


2. Heat your strike water in the MT. No need to transfer it from the HLT. Just fill the MT directly from the git go. This eliminates the need to compensate for the kettle thermal mass.
.

Hi there, I am a relatively new brew magic owner to. I have an extremely hard time maintaining a steady mash temp with my $ridiculously expensive yet still flawed system. It is driving me nuts.

Quick question, when you say heat strike water directly in MT, do you heat all of it, or just some of it.

I think that one of the biggest improvements that sabco could make to this system is to put the digital temperature probe in the middle of the mash tun. Why they put it in the out which is next to the siphon is beyond me.

 

[Catt22]

Hi there, I am a relatively new brew magic owner to. I have an extremely hard time maintaining a steady mash temp with my $ridiculously expensive yet still flawed system. It is driving me nuts.

Quick question, when you say heat strike water directly in MT, do you heat all of it, or just some of it.

I think that one of the biggest improvements that sabco could make to this system is to put the digital temperature probe in the middle of the mash tun. Why they put it in the out which is next to the siphon is beyond me.

Yes, heat all of the strike water in the MT before adding the grain.

IMO it's best to use a separate thermometer probe deep in the grain bed to monitor the actual grain bed temperature. You still want the controller probe at the MT outlet for somewhere along the circuit of the circulating wort as this provides a quick response for the burner control. The lag would be too great if the probe were in the grain bed. That's the way I have my system set up (RIMS, but not a Sabco).

 

[luke2080]

Yeah with it recirculating during the mash rests, along the outlet should be fine.

I haven' had a chance to brew again with the holidays and golf, but should in the next week. I plan to heat the strike water in the MT, while I'm heating up my sparge water, plus extra, in the HLT. I think I was running into some problems last time with the burner from the HLT heating up the pipe from the MT. I'll just kick them both on when there are no grains to mess with, get the HLT up to 180 or 190 ish, and just watch it so it doesn't dip below 160 or so during the full mash process (it should maintain well, with a cover and 80+ degree outdoor temp).

 

[Starderup]

It came as a big surprise that this system is not turnkey and foolproof. For six thousand bucks, I'd expect more. I have only seen one BM system at Red Brick brewery. I think they use it to try out small batches of new recipes.
I appreciate the tips and pointers on the thermometers/probes. We are building an automated 55 gallon system, and can use all the guidance we can get.

 

[luke2080]

It came as a big surprise that this system is not turnkey and foolproof. For six thousand bucks, I'd expect more. I have only seen one BM system at Red Brick brewery. I think they use it to try out small batches of new recipes.
I appreciate the tips and pointers on the thermometers/probes. We are building an automated 55 gallon system, and can use all the guidance we can get.

To be honest, it is fairly turnkey and foolproof. I had it put together in an hour after it was shipped. The big, big, value for people that buy it, is we want a professional system but are too lazy/dumb/non-handy to weld a good stand, and have welded inlets, outlets, etc. I liked my old system, but the weldless joints would have slow leaks, a pain to clean, etc. I could have probably built something if I spent $2-3k and some time. But that time would have equaled about 8 months. I can't spend 8 months learning to weld, nor do I have a space to do so.

As for the operation, I've brewed now without going through the full manual/CD that comes with it. But yes, many people on this site have built much better systems. Fully automated, electric - just load water, grain, push a button and go sit down until the boil is done. I would love to have bought one of those systems, if they existed at this scale. I'm very jealous of the people that have built systems like that, but I also realize some of those people (or all) are varying degrees of mechanical and electrical engineers. I saw one guys build and I'm pretty sure he said he was a rocket scientist.

I work with a couple of rocket scientists, and lots of mechanical engineers. They could build one of these in their sleep. Unfortunately my boss would be pissed if I pulled them away from slaving at work 80 hours a week to help me brew beer. And none of them live near me.

So for me, after 1 attempt, my temperature control was about 200% better, I had the best efficiency I've ever had (I don't care about that, I want to dial in the consistency) and brewed my largest batch. And allowed me to do a 4 step mash. The system has flaws...but I'm able to justify it as a purchase. I split it with a buddy. He splits the costs with me but I definitely drink way more of the finished product :rockin:

 

[Vance71975]

Hi,

Are there any active brewmagic users out there? Our club has recently acquired a system and we're have some difficulty with various aspects of the fixture. I posted one question to the sabco forum that went unanswered. A second post never got past the moderator. Seems that forum is relatively inactive or closed to new users.

Thanks

I only WISH i was a sabco user, someday, someday i shall have one!

 

[Starderup]

None of my buddies are rocket scientists, but together we have gotten about 80% of the way done with our system. It is going to be fully automated with solenoid valves, temperature control, alarms, loading and saving recipes with a web based interface - everything you could ask for in a 55 gallon system. All for just a little over a thousand bucks.

 

[luke2080]

None of my buddies are rocket scientists, but together we have gotten about 80% of the way done with our system. It is going to be fully automated with solenoid valves, temperature control, alarms, loading and saving recipes with a web based interface - everything you could ask for in a 55 gallon system. All for just a little over a thousand bucks.

Well you and your buddies have far more experience, space, and time on your hands then I do. And how in the world are you doing this for $1k? I'm guessing you got stainless sheets and are building your own kettles as well?

 

[Starderup]

2 barrels - $320, False bottom, $145, Fittings and tubing, $300, 2 March pumps, $300, Frame, $75 (+ some beer), Automation, $200.
Total is $1,320. Ok, so a little over a thousand.

 

[jamcclureuk]

2 barrels - $320, False bottom, $145, Fittings and tubing, $300, 2 March pumps, $300, Frame, $75 (+ some beer), Automation, $200.
Total is $1,320. Ok, so a little over a thousand.

I don't doubt that you think you'll get it done for $1320..... but in just about every project that I've ever done, it turns out more than I anticipate.

You're talking full automation, for $1320. I wish you all the best!

 

[Starderup]

There is one other thing I did forget. The solenoid valves. Still, it is not going to be much more, because then we can sell the ball valves and recover a little of the initial cost. I could get a copy of the receipts if you don't believe it. We have most of the stuff already in hand.

 

[luke2080]

You said 55 gallon system, right? $160 per barrel? What are these made of, wood?

Again, no real option for me as I don't know what a solenoid is, nor how to make "automation". But like I said, I'd do the same as you if I had the know how, and I'm guessing some good access to used/cheap materials. You should setup a build thread on it..... and make and sell these if you can do it this cheaply.

 

[Starderup]

314 Stainless Steel, my friend. Found them on eBay. They are 16 or 18 gauge, and weigh 62 pounds.
The thought has crossed my mind about making another system once this has finished, and seeing if I could sell it. However, the market for 55 gallon systems is probably limited.

 

[checker]

314 Stainless Steel, my friend. Found them on eBay. They are 16 or 18 gauge, and weigh 62 pounds.
The thought has crossed my mind about making another system once this has finished, and seeing if I could sell it. However, the market for 55 gallon systems is probably limited.

I'd be interested in more detail about your system. Our club has aspirations of doing something more then homebrew. I did the numbers and if my info is correct, we'd need to brew two 10 gallon batches a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year to meet the minimum production level required by arizona to maintain a brewery license. That's a little intense on a brew magic. 50 gallon batches would make things more reasonable. I prefer the make option tho' as it's been a plan of mine. I've a good I/O board, labview and engineering knowledge and our club has access to a fab shop.

 

[kladue]

I am interested in your goals for automation having built and programmed an automated 10 gallon system with unique features.

 

[Starderup]

I am interested in your goals for automation having built and programmed an automated 10 gallon system with unique features.

We want pretty much everything automation can offer.
Load/save recipes via secure http
Temperature control with probes
Pilotless ignition
Solenoid valves
Event logging

Basically, we want to be able to fill the HLT, have the system bring it up to temperature, and then start transferring to the MLT and send out an audible notification. We then add the grain, mash in, and refill the HLT with sparge water, and initiate heating that up. The system should maintain our preset mash temp(s), stepping up at specified intervals if required. The HLT should stay at our sparge temp until we are ready to draw the first runnings. Then, using probes that measure the volume of liquid in the MLT, fly sparge.

Our goal is to be able to reliably reproduce any recipe with minimal intervention.

Phase I of our system will be largely manual, but once we add the Brewtroller, valves, and probes, we pretty much want to be able to drink beer and have the system beep at us whenever it needs anything.

 

[pickles]

We want pretty much everything automation can offer.
Load/save recipes via secure http
Temperature control with probes
Pilotless ignition
Solenoid valves
Event logging

Basically, we want to be able to fill the HLT, have the system bring it up to temperature, and then start transferring to the MLT and send out an audible notification. We then add the grain, mash in, and refill the HLT with sparge water, and initiate heating that up. The system should maintain our preset mash temp(s), stepping up at specified intervals if required. The HLT should stay at our sparge temp until we are ready to draw the first runnings. Then, using probes that measure the volume of liquid in the MLT, fly sparge.

Our goal is to be able to reliably reproduce any recipe with minimal intervention.

Phase I of our system will be largely manual, but once we add the Brewtroller, valves, and probes, we pretty much want to be able to drink beer and have the system beep at us whenever it needs anything.

I have a Brewtroller based system, have built almost every piece from scratch but no automation for fluid transfer. I think you'll be hard pressed to do itfor under $2000+. Solenoids that have been proven to work well by Brewtroller users are $50 each.

 

[luke2080]

What the hell is a solenoid? I will not google such an odd term.

Either way, this thread has gone too far

I'd like to follow your automation discussion, but you may want to start a new thread. Leave this thread for those of us discussing ops practices with the Brew Magic, and not super automated awesome machines that Willy Wonka invented that I cannot build or comprehend.

Also - I think tonight is drunk night at the bar. Time for some Monk's Blood in a can. :rockin:

 

[Starderup]

Sorry for the hijack, Luke.