Any refrigeration experts out there - please tell me about this auction find

[Patirck]

I bought some stuff at an auction mostly for work but there were a few things that came with one of the items I bought. It is a refrigerator compressor. It was bought from a pharmaceutical manufacturer and from what I gather, it may have been sitting unused for a long time and may have never been used.

It is a Copeland brand - model number FAAM-A052-IAA-110
There is a sticker next to the model number that specifies evaporator application of 25* - does this mean that the unit is made to operate in temperature as low as 25*?

I have had this sitting in my garage for a while. Last week, a chest freezer I used for fermenting stopped working and has gone to the land of the dead chest freezers...

So....

I'd like to figure out if this can be used in a homebuilt walk in cooler. I have been following the amazing thread of the custom built walk in cooler attached to the back of the garage. I don't know if I can do that but I'd like to get an idea of how big a walk-in this thing can cool. If it is big enough, I'd like to set up a multiple sections (one at 35* or so - and one for fermenting. I also have a 15 gallon cone tank on a home made wood stand. I have used it a few times but without any temperature control. I'd like to either set this up in a temperature controlled compartment or get some tubing and pump cold water or glycol to control the temperature.

So to sum up:

Can anyone tell me how big a cooler this can cool?

Is there anything else (besides a temperature controller I already have) that I need to make the refrigerator unit work?

Can I just build (or buy) an insulated box and set this thing inside (presumably at the top) and turn it on to cool the cooler?

 

[ButcherBoy]

You only have half a system there, the condensing side, you need an evaporator and a freon metering device. It looks to me like this is used, but its hard to say from your pics. Looks like the freon lines to and from the evaporator are pinched shut, I do that with old compressors to keep the oil from leaking out. This is an old unit, no surprise there. It MAY be possible to get it working as part of a refrigeration system, but it will probably be expensive unless you have a friend in the trade who is willing to work on a barter basis.

 

[Patirck]

I think I get it now - so I need something like this:

http://compare.ebay.com/like/171062420544?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

and something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPORLAN-GF-...432?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33798044b8

I know these would have to be sized appropriately and I have no idea how big the condenser I have is and what size evaporator it would support and what size freon metering device I would need. How do these get connected? Soldering copper is something I can do so if it's that...

Assuming I get the whole thing connected, I would think it needs to be recharged with new refrigerant? Is the R12 refrigerant replaced by R134a like in automobiles?

 

[ButcherBoy]

Yes to both, I can't tell you how to connect them... It depends on the system, but will probably involve flare fittings to the various valves. Sizing the various components is beyond my experience, R134A won't work. This condensing unit was designed for R12, the sub for that is 410B... I believe.

 

[501irishred]

If you insist on getting it up and going, please get the numbers off the compressor itself. There "may" still be a look up for it that will let us know what refrigerants it would be compatible with and what size evap and TXV you would need.
I would however recommend dismantling it and selling it to your local scrap metal yard. If you were to get it running, you would end up with an older than dirt, too small to do a lot with system, that cost you an arm and a leg. IMO you would be much better off (more for less) with a cheap window unit and a coolbot controller.

 

[mblanks2]

i would however recommend dismantling it and selling it to your local scrap metal yard. If you were to get it running, you would end up with an older than dirt, too small to do a lot with system, that cost you an arm and a leg.

+1

 

[WPStrassburg]

4800 btu @ 25*suction and no listed replacement refrigerants. you may be able to get by with a 404a or 134a, but none are officially approved for use with it. you will void the warranty if you blow it up trying the wrong refrigerant...

one of the coils linked from ebay looks to be a close match

View attachment 7028290jD5n4g1uSjbuH1Yyphu_HaB74uSummaryA.pdf

 

[Patirck]

I've decided it would be much better to use a small window a/c unit for my fermenter. I may have a free one from my in-law's house - I think it is about 5 years old, lightly used but digital controls. I'm planning on a two compartment ferm chamber where each compartment is big enough for a 15 gallon fermenter. I'll have an opening with a fan that turns on for the secondary compartment to blow cold in from the primary compartment. I'm going to set up a 3 or 4 inch duct with fans to recirculate cold air from the bottom to the top of each compartment. I'll also have a storage closet attached where I can store brew pots, flasks etc...

It will end up being a total of 8' wide x 6' tall x 30" deep. Any suggestions for insulation would be appreciated. I stopped by Home despot and they seem to have foil backed hard foam insulation in 4x8 sheets in thicknesses from 1" - 2". I'm thinking I would double a few of these up and make it 3" or 3.5" thick. The entire contraption will be in a completely covered patio in my yard where I brew. I live in southern california so weather isn't too big a factor in in terms of temperature control except for the hottest part of the summer.

Any idea who could use the Copeland model number FAAM-A052-IAA-110? I'm thinking of ebay but it's so damn heavy I can't imagine shipping it.

 

[501irishred]

Are you making two separate compartments to be able to have dual temps?

 

[Patirck]

Are you making two separate compartments to be able to have dual temps?

Exactly. I'd like to be able to do lagers in the first chamber that is directly under the A/C. The second chamber would be fine if it could maintain 62* or so for ales (usually 68*ish).

I plan on putting this under a covered patio on a pre-existing concrete slab. I don't know much about insulation or building coolers, but I have read some interesting threads around here. Many are way more extravagant than I plan for.

I need suggestions as far as insulation goes in terms of amount and type. I have seen chambers like this done with roll out fiberglass insulation but most seem to use some kind of foam board usually with a foil like coating. I am thinking of just using 2x4s for the framing so I would have 3.5". I have also considered using 2x6s for framing to allow for 5.5" of insulation.

I am unsure how to put the layer of insulation between the floor and the concrete slab. I would like to raise the bottom of the cabinet off of the ground (slab) using bricks of some type so I can hose down the patio - especially after brewing. I think raising it will increase the amount of cold loss going out through the bottom.

I plan on using plywood on the outside and some sort of siding on top of it.

For the roof - I don't know - it won't be exposed to direct sunlight or rain due to the patio cover. It is really a matter of keeping the insulation happy.

 

[501irishred]

Sounds like a plan! A few suggestions:
* IMO, the best bet would be to use extruded polystyrene insulation (pink board at Home Depot) vs fiberglass. 3.5" (for 2x4 construction) would give you an R-17.5 vs R-13 for fiberglass.
* extruded polystyrene can be sealed much easier than fiberglass and is waterproof (ish) against condensation.
* Use (3) 1" layers and (1) 1/2" layer to fill the void between studs, add a 3/4" piece to cover inside over the top of the studs. This will give you a total of R-22.75 and will help shield the wood construction from the conditioned air.
* seal ALL seams in EACH layer with 100% silicone.

 

[Patirck]

That sounds like a lot of insulation - a total of 4.25 inches. What about the top and bottom? I'm still a bit perplexed on how to build the floor of this thing. I tend to think I should raise it off the slab with something like a toe kick and then stuff the inside of that with more insulation and seal the outside with something waterproof. It is an outdoor patio and from time to time, I'd like to be able to hose off the ground (slab) without ruining the cabinets.

 

[501irishred]

You have to consider that you're about to ask an air conditioner to do something that it's not designed to do. At lager temps the evaporator coil will surely begin frosting in rather short order. The idea behind a fully sealed, well insulated box is that you will need the "off" cycle to be as long as possible to thaw the coil before the next call for cool.
I would construct the roof exactly the same as the walls in regards to insulation, and the floor the same except instead of the outer layer of foam board, use plywood. You could use rubber blocks, treated 4x4's, casters,.......etc to keep it off the floor.