Any Concrete Guys Out There...Issue With Recent Patio Expansion

[oujens]

I'm having a contractor meet me to discuss his job tomorrow. I've attached a couple of pictures of my issue. We did a 300 sq ft expansion and had a salt rock finish. From all examples I've seen, this finish has a smooth concrete finish with salt rock indentions. The product we received is ok in portions, but a large majority is like I show in the pictures. If its not showing up, what I see is a lot of trowel marks and ridges. In areas, it almost looks like concrete was smoothed over concrete. Also, there are a lot of color variations and in these areas the ridges are already having the top layer chip off. For those of you with experience, does this look like an acceptable job? Do I have a right to request the finish be re-done? Even though concrete is never perfect, this finish seems to have not been done correctly. We had a referral for this business and read nothing but good reviews. I'm pretty upset about this, but am trying to stay calm when I talk to the guy to be reasonable. I think it needs to be fixed on their dime, whatever option that might be. I know sometimes I can be a little over critical, but I don't think I should accept this work. I'd be curious what the experts say.

 

[oujens]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1477667881.954726.jpg

 

[oujens]

One more pic showing discoloration, inconsistent texture, etc.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I live too far north in the land of the seasonal freeze to understand why anyone would choose an ice trap finish like that, but maybe you don't have those issues in Tx.

I think the discoloration will correct itself in short time.

But the inconsistent finish does look like sh!t and the contractor should correct that.

 

[tjr3000]

That's FUBAR and you are right to challenge the contractor. Even without the salt finish, that would not be a smooth slab, and a salt rock finish requires one. That looks like they didnt screed it right in the first place and tried to repair low spots after the initial pour had started to set.

Its not going to be an easy convo, but I would ask for a tear out and repour.

 

[oujens]

We don't get many freezes here. Our friends had this finish around their pool but done by different people. We had a stained patio before that would chip and flake. I didn't want to put up with the maintenance so I decided on a broom finish but last second switched to salt finish. I will say the pictures presented to us doesn't match what we got. Maybe it was a different crew, but it looks nowhere near our expectation. As it's cured it really shows more, and i think the inconsistent finish adds to the color discrepancy.

 

[howamidriving]

Ive never done a salt rock finish but in the words of my dad whose been doing it for over 30 years: "that looks like ****." I'm thinking they maybe let the new guy practice on it or maybe finished it too wet. If you finish something while it's still real wet it might look alright to the untrained eye but when it dries you get nasty float marks like that.

The discoloration isn't really on the finishers though, that's more the cement itself.

 

[oujens]

I didn't want to say anything since I've never done it concrete myself, but I thought it looked like inexperience. Don't know how much a difference would be between a stamped finish and this, it's just hard to believe from everything I researched about the company I go this.

 

[oujens]

So I guess I should ask for a tear out and repour as the best fix, but most likely I should be ok if we agree on a new topping and trying it again? I assume a topping or overlay won't be as durable as fresh poured concrete. Would it be wrong to ask if a Sub could be involved? I'm happy the contractor reviewed my pictures and will meet with me. Just trying to make sure I'm being reasonable so we can get a permanent fix to this mess. I'm sure they don't want this job showing up in there reviews, so I'm expecting they will try to do something. It seems there is no way they can tell me that job was done correctly.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for a re-do. But don't be surprised if the contractor has other ideas. I would not agree to a topping/overlay. It'll just come loose eventually.

 

[TexasDroughtBrewery]

Yeah, the contractor will always have other "fixes" before a re-do I would stand strong and make them do it right. That dosen't look good at all and I know its not cheap to put that much concrete in!

 

[madscientist451]

If they didn't do it right the first time, what makes you think they'd do any better when they aren't getting paid? I'd ask for a refund. Even if they refund 50% its better to just take it and not have the same idiots back on your property
Perhaps you can go over the top of it with an epoxy re-coating like Abucrete:

http://www.abatron.com/shop-online/abocrete-kit.html

 

[oujens]

If they didn't do it right the first time, what makes you think they'd do any better when they aren't getting paid? I'd ask for a refund. Even if they refund 50% its better to just take it and not have the same idiots back on your property
Perhaps you can go over the top of it with an epoxy re-coating like Abucrete:

http://www.abatron.com/shop-online/abocrete-kit.html

I don't disagree, but since they promote on Angie's list I'm sure one bad review wouldn't be good for business, especially if I show my realtor (who provided recommendation from work done at their and neighbors house) what they did and word gets around. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position take 50% and have someone else do the work. Not trying to say I can't afford it, but not many can just pay $4-5k out of nowhere to get this fixed. Never did I think this could happen to me and my family. The confirmation of the screw up really makes it burn. I'm hoping the guy will agree they screwed up and take care of it, but I know that's too optimistic.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

If they didn't do it right the first time, what makes you think they'd do any better when they aren't getting paid? I'd ask for a refund.

Well,

Op? Have you paid for what you have?

I sincerely hope not. Otherwise the contractor will be less motivated to make corrections.

 

[oujens]

Well,



Op? Have you paid for what you have?



I sincerely hope not. Otherwise the contractor will be less motivated to make corrections.

Unfortunately...when this was done I thought it was fine. The slab was rinsed and it looked good wet. I paid the money. As it's dried and cured I realized this was not looking good. A recent visit to a friend's house confirmed that this finish was terrible. What had appeared to be some "texture" was really poor technique once it started to change color over the next few weeks. Needless to say, I screwed up but I also had no idea a job could be this bad, and they said nothing when it was complete. It was hard to see the imperfections at the time. It's clear as day now. I completely understand I'm in an uphill battle but hoping these people stand by their work and don't want this popping up as their work on reviews. I'm very sick to my stomach over this.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Unfortunately...when this was done I thought it was fine. The slab was rinsed and it looked good wet. I paid the money. As it's dried and cured I realized this was not looking good. A recent visit to a friend's house confirmed that this finish was terrible. What had appeared to be some "texture" was really poor technique once it started to change color over the next few weeks. Needless to say, I screwed up but I also had no idea a job could be this bad, and they said nothing when it was complete. It was hard to see the imperfections at the time. It's clear as day now. I completely understand I'm in an uphill battle but hoping these people stand by their work and don't want this popping up as their work on reviews.

I do sincerely hope that you have a rare situation here and that this contractor is honorable. As payment is generally regarded as acceptance of the work. Best wishes on your outcome.

 

[JonM]

FWIW, when a contractor f-ed up a soffit/fascia project on my garage, they sent out the A squad to tear off all the prior work and fix it up right. They might be receptive, especially if the boss is sitting there thinking "Man, junior really messed up that oujens job." and thinking that you're gonna call any minute. I'd give it a shot. If they have good reviews online, they probably have good customer svc.

 

[oujens]

FWIW, when a contractor f-ed up a soffit/fascia project on my garage, they sent out the A squad to tear off all the prior work and fix it up right. They might be receptive, especially if the boss is sitting there thinking "Man, junior really messed up that oujens job." and thinking that you're gonna call any minute. I'd give it a shot. If they have good reviews online, they probably have good customer svc.

Thanks, they seem to be good people, and I hope they understand the issue and we can agree on making it right. To screw a family out of that kind of money is not good for business, though I understand this is also why contractors get a bad reputation as a whole. I guess I at least have a functioning slab, so it could be worse...or maybe I haven't seen what's on the inside yet.

 

[IslandLizard]

I don't disagree, but since they promote on Angie's list I'm sure one bad review wouldn't be good for business, especially if I show my realtor (who provided recommendation from work done at their and neighbors house) what they did and word gets around. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position take 50% and have someone else do the work. Not trying to say I can't afford it, but not many can just pay $4-5k out of nowhere to get this fixed. Never did I think this could happen to me and my family. The confirmation of the screw up really makes it burn. I'm hoping the guy will agree they screwed up and take care of it, but I know that's too optimistic.

Ouch, that looks horrible! I hope you're not saying you paid $5k+ for this.
[How big is the slab?] OK, saw it, 300 sf. Doesn't look all that big from the pix.

Anyway, as others have already said, they've done a terrible job and it should be redone the right way.

The contractor may offer to resurface, grind, or "polish" it, neither are what you hired them or paid for.

 

[oujens]

Ouch, that looks horrible! I hope you're not saying you paid $5k+ for this.
[How big is the slab?] OK, saw it, 300 sf. Doesn't look all that big from the pix.

Anyway, as others have already said, they've done a terrible job and it should be redone the right way.

The contractor may offer to resurface, grind, or "polish" it, neither are what you hired them or paid for.

I paid $3500 for the 300 sq ft plus 100 sq ft on existing patio which was a 2 inch cap. Wasn't the lowest bid, they had an opening due to a cancellation and others had a 2 month wait. I'm assuming the price is higher if I pay someone else to rip out and do again. I'd probably would just do a broom finish in that scenario. I'll keep in mind what I paid for. Reading about grinding or resurfacing doesn't sound pleasing. I also want a solid solution.

 

[lewandowski46]

Thanks, they seem to be good people, and I hope they understand the issue and we can agree on making it right. To screw a family out of that kind of money is not good for business, though I understand this is also why contractors get a bad reputation as a whole. I guess I at least have a functioning slab, so it could be worse...or maybe I haven't seen what's on the inside yet.

Not sure how it is in Texas, but in Arizona we have a Registrar of Contractors, and pretty much most contractors that do business in AZ are licensed, bonded, and insured through the RoC. If you hire one of these contractors and have issues and the company refuses to fix it properly, you can file a complaint with the RoC and get them involved. Might be something to look at as well.

 

[oujens]

Not sure how it is in Texas, but in Arizona we have a Registrar of Contractors, and pretty much most contractors that do business in AZ are licensed, bonded, and insured through the RoC. If you hire one of these contractors and have issues and the company refuses to fix it properly, you can file a complaint with the RoC and get them involved. Might be something to look at as well.

Thanks, I'll check into it but I'll give them a chance first.

 

[oujens]

Welp, contractor indicated that is their technique that they like to "rough" it for more texture and not make it slippery. I guess from their pictures I could not tell it. I'm going to go look at a couple jobs in person that they've done to verify, but obviously we have a difference in opinion regardless. They explained you have to trowel the salt in so of course you'll have fan marks. Oh well, guess we will probably have those areas covered and overtime will probably not be as noticeable. Most of their jobs end up stained so maybe that changes things a bit. Worse things could happen...

 

[IslandLizard]

Welp, contractor indicated that is their technique that they like to "rough" it for more texture and not make it slippery. I guess from their pictures I could not tell it. I'm going to go look at a couple jobs in person that they've done to verify, but obviously we have a difference in opinion regardless. They explained you have to trowel the salt in so of course you'll have fan marks. Oh well, guess we will probably have those areas covered and overtime will probably not be as noticeable. Most of their jobs end up stained so maybe that changes things a bit. Worse things could happen...

Well, if so, there are ways to trowel... and ways to rough...

If this is being used for your little kids to play on it should be smooth as a baby's butt with the little salt craters for texture. A broom finish would be way too rough to "live on," so that's why you chose the salt rock finish, right? This looks to me like a bad finish. Definitely check some other jobs out, and maybe not those just from them, for comparison.

 

[oujens]

Well, if so, there are ways to trowel... and ways to rough...



If this is being used for your little kids to play on it should be smooth as a baby's butt with the little salt craters for texture. A broom finish would be way too rough to "live on," so that's why you chose the salt rock finish, right? This looks to me like a bad finish. Definitely check some other jobs out, and maybe not those just from them, for comparison.

Unfortunately, I hired the wrong people to get the finish I wanted. Originally I was going to do broom to avoid the maintenance of staining/sealing because my kids will play on it and beat it up. I thought the salt rock would at least add something aesthetic. I didn't realize the end product would look like it did. I thought I had done my homework enough to trust these people, 23 years and local business. Maybe this finish is not an expertise of theirs. The stamped and plain broom finish work looked great. I thought the rock salt did to...until you stand on it. Of course the finish could be different compared to others on any given day. It's just a bummer and I'm going to have to live with it. Like I said, it could be worse and probably the average joe won't see it much once we set it up. Or at least I'm telling myself that.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

This shouldn't be your burden to bear but, if you want to make an attempt to smooth out some of the rough spots you could look into getting a couple "rubbing blocks".

This is the concrete grinding equivalent of hand sanding wood. Available at your local hardware store (lowes, HD, etc...) ~$20.00/ea.

 

[oujens]

Thanks, I don't really know what to do. I went and checked a job of theirs in person and didn't really see the marks I showed them, but there were still some subtle ones. I don't mind the subtle marks , and I don't mind a little texture, but I think what they are passing on as "texture" is a little disingenuous when compared to the rest of the patio work. I guess I don't understand why it would have been so hard to blend those areas in to make it smoother, unless they couldn't see it until it dried. I hate saying that since I've never done it and I know it takes skill. Concrete will look like **** in a few years anyway. Once we get our furniture and other items out there nobody will really be able to notice the difference I imagine.

 

[UndeadFred]

Sandblast it? Then stain it?

 

[oujens]

Sandblast it? Then stain it?

We didn't want to stain and seal it since we have little ones who will be playing out there. I know those surfaces get be slippery when wet, and they will beat it to hell. Maybe overtime they will wear those marks down. It looks like some of that surface will chip off over time since it already has.

 

[Ike]

I'd imagine you already did this, but I'd make sure the realtor who made the recommendation was in the loop on this one from the get-go. He/she will be able to put some pressure on the contractor as well. If the contractor pisses YOU off, they're out one customer and may have to deal with one bad review on Angie's List. If the REALTOR is pissed at them, it could mean a LOT of missed work down the road.