Another water question

[MHBT]

Please excuse me this might be a dumb question but are salts need to be added to the mash? Can you use just distilled water and acid to get the ph in the right range then add the salts needed in the boil kettle?

 

[thehaze]

I would not use ONLY distilled water for brewing. I would use RO water, bottled water or tap water, IF you know what kind of water it is.

But I am hoping other will chime in on this.

 

[MHBT]

Another thing i been reading that chalk is pretty much useless cause it does not dissolve and it needs to be dissolved in water with co2..could you use seltzer to dissolve the chalk and add that liquid to the strike water?

 

[mabrungard]

Yes, you can add all the minerals to the kettle. But there are reasons why you shouldn't. Most important is that adding calcium salts to the mash to produce at least 40 ppm has proven to help drop the oxalate from your wort. Another reason is that the Ca and Mg salts help lower mash pH and that reduces the amount of acid needed in the mash.

A technique that I like to use for my lagers is to add ALL the salts for the mashing and sparging water volume to the mashing water. I like lightly mineralized water for most of my lagers and this technique allows my mash to have a higher Ca content for oxalate precipitation and the eventual dilution with the mineral-free sparging water brings the overall mineral content down. It works well. The supporter's version of Bru'n Water has the tools in it to correctly predict the mashing and kettle conditions when using this technique.

 

[MHBT]

Yes, you can add all the minerals to the kettle. But there are reasons why you shouldn't. Most important is that adding calcium salts to the mash to produce at least 40 ppm has proven to help drop the oxalate from your wort. Another reason is that the Ca and Mg salts help lower mash pH and that reduces the amount of acid needed in the mash.

A technique that I like to use for my lagers is to add ALL the salts for the mashing and sparging water volume to the mashing water. I like lightly mineralized water for most of my lagers and this technique allows my mash to have a higher Ca content for oxalate precipitation and the eventual dilution with the mineral-free sparging water brings the overall mineral content down. It works well. The supporter's version of Bru'n Water has the tools in it to correctly predict the mashing and kettle conditions when using this technique.

Ahhhh thanks alot Martin..so this profile i built up im just gonna brew it and hopefully i learn something..I emailed john Palmer and he gave me some tips saying to add a little baking soda 2-4 grams per 10 gallons cause he said beer without bicarbonates can taste watery..so if i was to do that i assume add it to the boil not the mash..thank you

 

[esjay92]

I would not use ONLY distilled water for brewing. I would use RO water, bottled water or tap water, IF you know what kind of water it is.

But I am hoping other will chime in on this.

I can use only RO water in my brew and be successful without adding salts?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I can use only RO water in my brew and be successful without adding salts?

I can't say that I've done it, but I would presume it to taste dull and lack character. Minerals in beer are sort of like spices in food. They accentuate it.

 

[MHBT]

Is it a common practice to add baking soda to the boil to up the carbonates? I dont have the cojones to add baking soda in the mash for a vienna lager..I never knew a lack of carbonates results in watery beer

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Is it a common practice to add baking soda to the boil to up the carbonates? I dont have the cojones to add baking soda in the mash for a vienna lager..I never knew a lack of carbonates results in watery beer

Beer generally finishes its fermentation at a pH of roughly 4.3, and at that pH level there is essentially no remaining alkalinity (which includes bicarbonate) present. 4.3 is in fact the endpoint generally accepted when titrating to determine the initial concentration of present alkalinity. See this article:

http://www.veoliawatertech.com/crownsolutions/ressources/documents/2/21951,Water-pp393-394.pdf

I searched for the terms watery, thin, and mouthfeel and came up with nothing much relating to bicarbonate. The most definitive article I came up with that "sort of" mentions bicarbonate in association with mouthfeel is this one:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1993.tb01143.x/pdf

I'm not sure where Palmer came up with this, or even if he did, as he may have simply been misunderstood, but it seems that if he did the above referenced article "may" have been his source. But a complete reading of this 1993 paper does not provide technical support for the initial (1975) mention of bicarbonate in association with alleviating watery beer in my opinion. In fact the article frequently states that various "past" claims with regard to mouthfeel are presented without actual hard supporting evidence from research. This effectively leaves much of what often goes around with regard to this subject as merely hearsay, even if believed valid by Palmer.

 

[mabrungard]

I can use only RO water in my brew and be successful without adding salts?

Yes, you can. The result will be beer. But the flavor will likely be uninspiring. I recall sampling a pale ale from a brewer in NYC that used no salts or acid in the brewing. NYC water is essentially rainwater directly from the Catskills. That beer was well made, but it clearly lacked the pop and flavor that most expect of the style. A minimum concentration of several ions does help beer flavor. At a minimum, 20 to 30 ppm chloride should be in your brewing water. That helps avoid 'bland' flavor. Other ions are welcome, but vary with beer style.

That reference to needing bicarbonate in beer is odd. I've never heard of that need, excepting in darker beers where the grist is so acidic that the bicarbonate is needed to help neutralize that excess acidity.