another pump question

[sam_cotter]

Hi all I want to build a sanke keg cleaner. I will be using 5 gal sankes for serving so the cleaning should not be too tough. I was going to go with a ball valve manifold set up, hot water rinse, cleaning cycle, rinse, co2 blast. My question does anyone have any experience with this pump

https://www.amazon.com/ask/question..._hza?isAnswered=true#question-Tx3J4CR33OEBRBS

It looks like a potentially good option.

Are the cheaper magnetic drive pumps capable of keg cleaning? Williams brewing has an affordable one.

Sam

 

[mredge73]

I use a submersible pump for my keg cleaner, it works ok but at most I get 10psi because as it is designed to move water without any head pressure.
Magnetic drive pumps don't really build up much pressure either.
If I was in the market for a new pump I would look for something that can make pressure; like a well pump or sprinkler pump.
My rinse water from the tap is 60 psi, I run my air at ~30, but my cleaning cycle is <10psi so it just takes longer to cycle through.

 

[helibrewer]

This is the pump SS Brewtech recommends for low cost CIP
Pump

 

[sam_cotter]

I was reading the specs on this pump and it states max working pressure as 10 bar, a conversion tells me that is 140 or so psi. Up to 110 Celsius. I am thinking this is looking like a good option for a cleaning pump. I am still researching but I think I might get one of these and see how it works.

SAM

 

[helibrewer]

I plan to use it with my spray ball as a keg washer also

 

[sam_cotter]

I ordered one. It will be here tomorrow. My plan is to plumb it thru a cutout sanke keg top with spear that I have and observe the cleaning pressure that can be achieved. Should be able to do this weekend. I will follow up with feedback. From the amazon feedback I am thinking it will produce the pressure necessary to clean a serving sanke keg.

Sam

 

[sam_cotter]

got the pump. It looked really nice. Had some good weight to it so I was expecting good pressure from it. I got it all plumbed up to a sanke top cutout with spear. Fired it up and the water flowed out the end of the spear with no meaningful pressure. The pump had a clunk in it when it was gently shaken back and forth. I don't think that was a problem but it did not give me a good feeling. I am going to return and look for something better.

Sam

 

[ajdelange]

I use a submersible pump for my keg cleaner, it works ok but at most I get 10psi because as it is designed to move water without any head pressure.

No such animal. All pumps are designed to work against head pressure because it is always there. Even a sump pump that only lifts the water 10 feet is working against 10 ft of water (about 1/3 bar) head plus whatever the friction adds.

In selecting a pump one must obtain and look at the pump's curves which show the flow rate as a function of head.

The pump described in the first post is a recirculator for a hydronic heating systems, These are desinged to produce a few GPM at a head of a few feet of water and run at low power consumption. Little surprise, then, that they aren't very impressive for CIP or keg cleaning.

FWIW I use a 2 HP centrifugal pump for this function.

 

[sam_cotter]

I have found another pump.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0099TTJDW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I know it is the pump head only and a motor is needed, but it looks to have potential. any thoughts?

Sam

 

[ajdelange]

It's 48 GPH. That's less than 1 GPM. About 3 quarts/min or about 19 sec/qt. Do you really think that is going to do the job? In that line a more reasonable choice would be the pump at https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0099TTV76/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 which runs at 346 GPH or 5.8 GPM. But that's doubtless at 0 head so, as I said in my last post, you have to look at the pump curve to see how much flow you might expect to get at reasonable back pressure. For keg cleaning you want the water blasting out of the spear so you'll want at least 1 bar or maybe 2 back pressure. Most CIP balls want around 2.

You would also need to know how big a motor is required to get the required flow at the required pressure.

 

[BrunDog]

Why not get the pump helibrewer linked? Heck for a few bucks. Ore you can get a 1/3 hp. That will have the chops to generate some volume and velocity out of a spray ball.

 

[mredge73]

Most CIP balls want around 2.

Does this look correct?
For a CIP ball that requires 2bar = 30psi =70' head lift.

I have an old 1.5hp pool pump that can generate this kind of power.
I suppose I can try it out.

 

[BrunDog]

Yak! I use the plastic ball sprayers from McMaster Carr and they work well with just my chugger pumps and those are much smaller.

 

[mredge73]

Yak! I use the plastic ball sprayers from McMaster Carr and they work well with just my chugger pumps and those are much smaller.

What is the mc master pn#?
All I found was the larger expensive ones.

 

[BrunDog]

Boom: https://www.mcmaster.com/#71445t84

 

[Barkly]

I use a 1/2 hp submersible sump pump.
The specs rate it at 4500 gph at a little more than 10 psi.
Reduce the outlet on the pump from 2 inch to 1/2 inch and it makes ridiculous power.

The key is the gph rating. I have a Procon rotary pump that will make over 250 psi but at only about 10 gph. It's totally useless..

I have to use a ball valve on the pump to throttle back the flow through my rotating cleaning ball.

Great thing is the made in China ones are dirt cheap at Princess Auto here in Canada. I imagine the prices would be even better at Harbor Freight in the US..

 

[DrunkenWeasel]

No such animal. All pumps are designed to work against head pressure because it is always there. Even a sump pump that only lifts the water 10 feet is working against 10 ft of water (about 1/3 bar) head plus whatever the friction adds.

In selecting a pump one must obtain and look at the pump's curves which show the flow rate as a function of head.

The pump described in the first post is a recirculator for a hydronic heating systems, These are desinged to produce a few GPM at a head of a few feet of water and run at low power consumption. Little surprise, then, that they aren't very impressive for CIP or keg cleaning.

FWIW I use a 2 HP centrifugal pump for this function.

Can you post a link to the pump you use or a similar model and provide some comments on how your system performs? Thanks.

 

[ajdelange]

I won't be able to tell you much about it here as it is back in VA and I am in Canada for another month or so. The pump is a centrifugal pump that I got from Grainger (so presumably the brand is Dayton) basically chosen as the biggest single phase pump (240VAC) in their catalogue. Even so it was a special order. It's 2 HP and delivers a couple of bar pressure at the outlet. Input and output connections are NPT so I had to add Triclover adapters. You can see a picture of it at http://www.pbase.com/agamid/image/109220058. The output of the pump tees with a compressed air line so that hot caustic (from an old small cylindroconical) and air can be injected into the inverted keg through the liquid port of a coupler (pea removed) and returned through the gas port (check valve removed) back to the reservoir. By admitting the right amount of air the distribution of liquid between the keg and reservoir can be controlled.

The same setup is also used to clean cylindroconicals with flow routed to them rather than the keg coupler by a couple of three way triclover valves which are visible in the picture. It delivers about 2 bar to the rotary CIP head in the fermenters.

The system performs well on both the kegs and the fermenters.

Pulse me again in October/November and I'll get the model number of the motor and pump.

 

[getack]

I was reading the specs on this pump and it states max working pressure as 10 bar, a conversion tells me that is 140 or so psi.
SAM

Just an FYI, "working pressure" is not the same as the amount of pressure the pump can produce.

Working pressure is basically just the pressure at which the pump can function. It is intended to be plumbed into a closed system, and the max pressure of this system is 10 bar. It's basically where the pump's own seals will start to fail and spring leaks.

A pump capable of producing 10 bar is stupidly insane. That is more than 100 meters (330ft) of head!

The linked pump's max head is 6m (20ft) which is closer to 0.6bar, not really that much.