One's buddies (mine anyway) will drink anything. "Hey, it's free beer!".
Naturally you want to share something you're proud of, but don't be afraid to give away mediocre beer occasionally. It gives you more incentive to get better.
Another mediocre beer...getting frustrated
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One's buddies (mine anyway) will drink anything. "Hey, it's free beer!".
Naturally you want to share something you're proud of, but don't be afraid to give away mediocre beer occasionally. It gives you more incentive to get better.- Joined
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Perhaps try some of these ideas:
- Try a different kit supplier. If you have the same problem with a different kit and different supplier then perhaps its the methodology of the brewing or sanitation
- Consider the storage of the yeast. Keep it in the fridge if you're not using the kit straight away.
- Consider the storage of the hops - keep it in the freezer or a cold fridge if you're not using straight away
- check cleanliness of bottles and sanitation - this is critical
- check the way the bottle is being filled with regards to the amount of air left in the bottle. I actually fill my bottles till it just overflows. Then when you draw out the filling wand it leaves just the right amount of head space. I have tried before where I didn't want to waste the last bit of beer and filled a bottle half and then capped it. Needless to say it was undrinkable and I spat it out.
- check the bottle caps you're using and the method of capping. I have had experience where one supplier's bottle cap's quality is not the same as the next supplier and it seems that not all caps seal as well as they should thus leaving a slightly less gassed beer.
- Try a different kit supplier. If you have the same problem with a different kit and different supplier then perhaps its the methodology of the brewing or sanitation
- Consider the storage of the yeast. Keep it in the fridge if you're not using the kit straight away.
- Consider the storage of the hops - keep it in the freezer or a cold fridge if you're not using straight away
- check cleanliness of bottles and sanitation - this is critical
- check the way the bottle is being filled with regards to the amount of air left in the bottle. I actually fill my bottles till it just overflows. Then when you draw out the filling wand it leaves just the right amount of head space. I have tried before where I didn't want to waste the last bit of beer and filled a bottle half and then capped it. Needless to say it was undrinkable and I spat it out.
- check the bottle caps you're using and the method of capping. I have had experience where one supplier's bottle cap's quality is not the same as the next supplier and it seems that not all caps seal as well as they should thus leaving a slightly less gassed beer.
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Man i just posted a thread about beer maturation time and im very impatient so m beers were ok until i got to the end and they were great. So ive learned from all the people on here that you need at LEAST 2 weeks of conditioning, if not 4 MINIMUM. Really is the difference between a decent beer to a wow beer.
BrewnWKopperKat
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Very good pointers were given already.
Aside from potentially stale ingredients (use better, fresh ones), the recipe in your original post has some serious flaws. For example, the grains should be milled and properly mashed with a certain amount of water, at the correct temperatures, then lautered and sparged, not just steeped in an "old sock." This was noted already, but be aware, many kit instructions are fairly pour, confusing, outdated, or even sheer wrong.
In that light, I recommend reading John Palmer's How to Brew, 4th Ed. It gives you a deeper insight into various ingredients, recipes, and processes for a better understanding of brewing. It's a good resource for later reference too.
Aside from potentially stale ingredients (use better, fresh ones), the recipe in your original post has some serious flaws. For example, the grains should be milled and properly mashed with a certain amount of water, at the correct temperatures, then lautered and sparged, not just steeped in an "old sock." This was noted already, but be aware, many kit instructions are fairly pour, confusing, outdated, or even sheer wrong.
In that light, I recommend reading John Palmer's How to Brew, 4th Ed. It gives you a deeper insight into various ingredients, recipes, and processes for a better understanding of brewing. It's a good resource for later reference too.
I think it was a "mini-mash" or as others say a partial-mash... I think as Lizard above says, that may be the root of the problem. Did the OP approach it as an extract only kit? Mini-Mash assumes you have extra equipment.
Glad someone said it. One of the confusing things in the instructions was the term “steep” when the term “mash” would have been better. My first mini-mash had similar instructions as a sort of “mashing for newbies” guide.
To OP, if you like red ales then try checking out other brew store recipes to compare. If your going to do a mini mash, make sure its double milled since your likely doing BIAB. If your local shop won’t double mill then you need to find another place to do business. +1 on reading How to Brew
Here is an example of an extract recipe from a brew store that is popular with brewers from the North.
SPECIALTY GRAINS
- 0.5lbs BelgianCara8
- 0.25lbs BriessSpecialRoast
- 0.125lbs BelgianBiscuit
- 0.125lbs EnglishChocolateMalt
EXTRACTS & OTHER FERMENTABLES
- 6lbs Gold Malt syrup
PREMIUM HOPS
- 1oz Willamette(60min)
- 1oz US Goldings(30min)
Keep brewing
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We have a Recipe Database on our forum...
For inspiration, here are the entries for Irish Red Ales:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forums/homebrew-ale-recipes.62/?prefix_id=144
Here's a very popular one with over 1000 comments:
Raging Red Irish Red Ale
Not sure if there's an extract/partial mash version included, haven't done a search for it in that thread.
That recipe can definitely be brewed as an all-extract with steeping grains. No mashing required for that. Use fresh DME (dry malt powder) instead of LME (malt syrup), as was suggested before, because DME stays much fresher over time (3+ years and longer) as long as it stays dry in a well sealed plastic bag, where LME doesn't, even in sealed cans.
Or do a mini-mash/partial-mash with some Maris Otter and incorporate some biscuit malt if you want.
Small mini-mashes are best performed in a large enough pot, stuck inside a pre-warmed but turned-off oven for an hour. That keeps the temps best. There are other ways of course. You can lauter/vorlauf in a large sieve into another container. Then sparge that in a similar way.
Once you have good fresh ingredients, most of brewing is process, process, and more... process!
So to brew better beer understand and master the processes involved.
Yup, cleaning (Washing soda, generic Oxiclean free, or homemade PBW) and sanitation (Starsan is highly recommended ) are processes. So is racking into a bottling bucket without introducing air (Oxygen is the nemesis of beer) while leaving trub behind.
For inspiration, here are the entries for Irish Red Ales:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forums/homebrew-ale-recipes.62/?prefix_id=144
Here's a very popular one with over 1000 comments:
Raging Red Irish Red Ale
Not sure if there's an extract/partial mash version included, haven't done a search for it in that thread.
That recipe can definitely be brewed as an all-extract with steeping grains. No mashing required for that. Use fresh DME (dry malt powder) instead of LME (malt syrup), as was suggested before, because DME stays much fresher over time (3+ years and longer) as long as it stays dry in a well sealed plastic bag, where LME doesn't, even in sealed cans.
Or do a mini-mash/partial-mash with some Maris Otter and incorporate some biscuit malt if you want.
Small mini-mashes are best performed in a large enough pot, stuck inside a pre-warmed but turned-off oven for an hour. That keeps the temps best. There are other ways of course. You can lauter/vorlauf in a large sieve into another container. Then sparge that in a similar way.
Once you have good fresh ingredients, most of brewing is process, process, and more... process!
So to brew better beer understand and master the processes involved.
Yup, cleaning (Washing soda, generic Oxiclean free, or homemade PBW) and sanitation (Starsan is highly recommended ) are processes. So is racking into a bottling bucket without introducing air (Oxygen is the nemesis of beer) while leaving trub behind.
BrewnWKopperKat
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Is there a "sticky" here at Homebrew Talk that outlines a partial mash process that does it "better/right"?
I'm asking the question within a broader context - as /r/homebrewing's wiki/FAQ appears to be picking up momentum (better and better as the months go by). If Homebrew Talk is willing to "go all in" and "game on" with new & updated "stickies", everyone wins.
D.B.Moody
Well-Known Member
I got tired enough looking for extract recipes that I posted "I brewed a favorite recipe today" under Extract Brewing. I hoped others would post there. but they haven't. I did just Sunday post my "Red Queen" there because I brewed it Sunday. It's an Irish red ale with steeped crystal malt and roasted barley for color and taste.
Not that I know off.
Partial mash procedures have been addressed many times, usually ad hoc in threads. They're dispersed throughout the various (sub)forums.
A global search for partial mash may reveal some or even most of those.
I'll bring that to our other staff's attention and see what we can do and in which format.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
Here's an easy fix: Quit using kits. There's no way of knowing how old the grains/extract are in that kit you are buying.
Also, kits are more expensive than buying your own ingredients, except if they are old kits and are on sale, and in that case you may not want to use them anyway. Spend $20 or so for a brewing scale. Get some grains and hops and start brewing some simple BIAB recipes. You don't need to over-think it. Start with good water and a good recipe. Use an on line strike water calculator. Heat your water, stir in your grains and wrap the brew pot up in an old sleeping bag and don't mess with it for about 90 minutes or so, pull the bag and start boiling. You can get a little more complicated and do a dunk sparge in a smaller pot if you'd like to. Keep some DME on hand in case you don't hit your post boil numbers. You can refine your process later, but you can make good beer and keep everything really simple and easy. 2.5 gallon recipes are easy for stovetop brewing, give you lots of variety and experience, and if you screw it up its easy to fix and/or dump it.
BrewnWKopperKat
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Thank you!
A lot of on-line sellers post their complete kits, so it is easy to re-create the kits on your own.
But i think some kits can be ok, especially for begginers... but, i think the hop heavy, malt heavy kits should be labled "intermediate" or some such.
For a brand new brewer, who starts out with a Pliny clone or ANY NE ipa... i will bet the old grains/malt/old hops never even factor in... all the major issues occur on the cold side (oxidation, bad temp control, etc).
I think the best advice to give a new brewer... look to make a blonde ale. Maybe a sierta nevada pale ale clone. Dial in the basics.
I see so many posts about 'this is my first brew... a double bourbon barrell bacon stout' or 'a Pliny THE YOUNGER!' These are hard recipies for an intermediate brewer to master... so many more chances for error.
I say go with a single malt single hop something.
But i think some kits can be ok, especially for begginers... but, i think the hop heavy, malt heavy kits should be labled "intermediate" or some such.
For a brand new brewer, who starts out with a Pliny clone or ANY NE ipa... i will bet the old grains/malt/old hops never even factor in... all the major issues occur on the cold side (oxidation, bad temp control, etc).
I think the best advice to give a new brewer... look to make a blonde ale. Maybe a sierta nevada pale ale clone. Dial in the basics.
I see so many posts about 'this is my first brew... a double bourbon barrell bacon stout' or 'a Pliny THE YOUNGER!' These are hard recipies for an intermediate brewer to master... so many more chances for error.
I say go with a single malt single hop something.
+1Here's an easy fix: Quit using kits. There's no way of knowing how old the grains/extract are in that kit you are buying.
I keep brew sheets from all my beers and i actually wrote this comment on one of my early batches, under What I Would Do Differently Next Time :“stop f’in around with kits.”
There are plenty of resources to help you create your own recipes. Free online, people here who will help you, or you can even buy books like Ray Daniels’ “Designing Great Beers” (which should be in any serious brewer’s library anyway.) Recipe books from guys like Gordon Strong, etc. Don’t blindly follow recipes. Look at brewing software and find a package you like. Run all your numbers yourself and decide what you want to do. Some of it will be trial and error but you learn and don’t keep making the same mistakes.
Also good advice on don’t go straight for the real ambitious recipes. My very first batch way back when I decided I wanted to make Molson Golden because that was what I liked at the time. Yeah with a basic kit - plastic bucket, a small brewpot so I had to do a concentrated boil, no wort chiller, no temp control of any kind. It was redder than killian’s and tasted awful. But I made my first beer. And I learned from there.
Everybody goes through this. I don’t know anybody who started out and made great beer in their first few batches. Its part of the learning curve.
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BrewnWKopperKat
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Apparently not - see OPs reply in #18.
BrewnWKopperKat
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If "mini-mash" vs "steep" matters for a process of soaking malts in 150F water for 60 minutes, imagine the impact of other words that one chooses to use.
To the point: when topics start to go negative with small amounts of language, people who have good experiences with the situation tend to "walk away" from the discussion - better to walk away then "blow up" a topic.
Not being negative. That was a comment I wrote to myself on my own brewsheet. Eventually, people are going to get there on their own.
Far as steep vs mini mash, there are plenty of extract recipes that call for small amounts of grain in a small muslin bag and steeping is perfectly acceptable unless the grains actually require mashing. Most of the time these steeping grains are things like crystal malt and/or chocolate malt that are mostly for color and some flavor and don’t need to be mashed. This is info we learn later after a few batches and we do additional reading and research.
Wait... are we talking about brewing or knitting?
BrewnWKopperKat
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Faux-profanity has the same effect. Plenty of people would rather not read that.
BrewnWKopperKat
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The humor is appreciated. I'm done with the side topic ...
BrewnWKopperKat
ʘ‿ʘ
Methods of Modern Homebrewing (Chris Colby) describes a number of other ways to steep crystal / caramel / roasted malts.
RetroGameBoy
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For 3 of my first batches I'm fairly certain that the cause was the LME and lighter beers (Wheat, Citrus IPA, Blonde). I have since switched strictly to DME and haven't had the very "off" flavor. It didn't seem present in the darker Brown Ale (Batch 3) using LME.
I went to the Off Flavor link previously posted (18 Common Off Flavors In Beer (And How They're Caused)), and I think the flavor I was experiencing mostly matched the "Grainy/Husky" description so perhaps even more time carbing would help.
I went to the Off Flavor link previously posted (18 Common Off Flavors In Beer (And How They're Caused)), and I think the flavor I was experiencing mostly matched the "Grainy/Husky" description so perhaps even more time carbing would help.
Not sure if this is helpful, but I used this thread for reference quite often when I starting out. I know you keep a huge catalog of references, so you may have already come across it.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/easy-partial-mash-brewing-with-pics.75231/
Fwiw... i know Morebeer now offers kits with DME or LME (or all-grain).
Again- the recipie for each variant is posted on-line (for free!).
So, if one does want a kit, dme is an option now.
I would say... as i have only ever used dme... once a bag of DME is open, it can get yucky fast. I would assume LME is even worse.
So... there might be something to a new brewer to use a kit: the DME/LME is already measuered out, as are steeping grains (no need for scale). Ditto for hops. Nothing to measure or store. Open it and use it.
Also, after re-reading this thread... to the O.P. @mjasinski30 ... after re-reading this thread... my apologies as i too helped in de-railing it. (Alas, this will happen, as everyone here loves beer and beer making. Hence we are all passionate and opinioniated.).
As i see you have not even posted again since page 1...
Anyways... please let us know if the other 12 bottles taste better after some aging.
Don't give up... if the beer looks a little hazy, and tastes a little off... that is still a good batch! Just because sometimes my meatloaf gets a little burnt, we still eat it for dinner (insert any metaphor for food here).
So... i would say you are on the right track. If you like that style, do the same kit again- can you get DME? Also, i would make appearance the last thing to dial in. Focus on taste and carbonation.
Stay with it- brewing is fun! (Oh, but it can become an obessive expesnive hobby if you let it. And sometimes you go down rabbit holes in threads about random stuff (see above!)).
Again- the recipie for each variant is posted on-line (for free!).
So, if one does want a kit, dme is an option now.
I would say... as i have only ever used dme... once a bag of DME is open, it can get yucky fast. I would assume LME is even worse.
So... there might be something to a new brewer to use a kit: the DME/LME is already measuered out, as are steeping grains (no need for scale). Ditto for hops. Nothing to measure or store. Open it and use it.
Also, after re-reading this thread... to the O.P. @mjasinski30 ... after re-reading this thread... my apologies as i too helped in de-railing it. (Alas, this will happen, as everyone here loves beer and beer making. Hence we are all passionate and opinioniated.).
As i see you have not even posted again since page 1...
Anyways... please let us know if the other 12 bottles taste better after some aging.
Don't give up... if the beer looks a little hazy, and tastes a little off... that is still a good batch! Just because sometimes my meatloaf gets a little burnt, we still eat it for dinner (insert any metaphor for food here).
So... i would say you are on the right track. If you like that style, do the same kit again- can you get DME? Also, i would make appearance the last thing to dial in. Focus on taste and carbonation.
Stay with it- brewing is fun! (Oh, but it can become an obessive expesnive hobby if you let it. And sometimes you go down rabbit holes in threads about random stuff (see above!)).
I noticed that too. On the up side a bunch of people posted a bunch of valid ideas. Hopefully it isn't overwhelming!
BrewnWKopperKat
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Thanks. I scanned it briefly. Given the size of the "partial" mash, it looks like they are "stove top brewing" (2.5 gal wort/boil
I skimmed the first couple of posts from the OP in that thread. For those doing partial mash, it's worth a look.
I'm not (publicly) tracking mini-mash references this year. This year was articles around "Yes it appears you can bottle NEIPAs and here are some ideas from people who have been working on that idea for 2+ years" - that's enough for 2021.
Pablo 54
Well-Known Member
All solid advice. My $0.02, don't give up. I brewed from 1999 to 2003 and then gave up in pure frustration over the same things you mentioned. I did not get back into it again until 2015. Lots of wasted time drinking OPB's.
My thoughts: I apologize if I missed it, but what yeast strain did you choose? The only Irish Ale yeast I use is 1084 but I bury it at 60F. I treat it like a lager.
Also, don't fall for the phrase, "If your water is good enough to drink, it's good enough to brew beer." Not entirely false, but my beer jumped up in flavor 10-fold when I started using distilled water. Once I had it teste, it fit a dark profile but was pretty horrible for anything else.
Push on
My thoughts: I apologize if I missed it, but what yeast strain did you choose? The only Irish Ale yeast I use is 1084 but I bury it at 60F. I treat it like a lager.
Also, don't fall for the phrase, "If your water is good enough to drink, it's good enough to brew beer." Not entirely false, but my beer jumped up in flavor 10-fold when I started using distilled water. Once I had it teste, it fit a dark profile but was pretty horrible for anything else.
Push on
mjasinski30
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Thanks for all the great feedback. I’ll take all of it into consideration. As an update, I just popped open one of the bottles I let carb for an extra week or so and it’s MUCH better. Cleaner and crisper. Thanks for all the help and encouragement.
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