ANOTHER mass shooting?

[zoebisch01]

Hey what about zip guns?

 

[EdWort]

no- Its the Aholes who continually support by watching the media. When its time for the news at my house we either go for a walk or eat dinner.

American media glorifies all death.

Ok, it's BOTH the lame stream media and the Aholes who are stupid enough to be influenced by it. I agree with Orfy on no TV in the house. I use ours to watch DVD's on making beer only.

 

[Orfy]

I don't read news papers either.

 

[z987k]

While I respect your opinion, you bring up an interesting point that hasnt really been mentioned. Assault weapons. I for one am totally for them and Ill tell you why. I believe that the second amendment is more about giving the people the ability to protect themselves from their government than from each other.

Now youre probably thinking that theres no way in hell the citizens of this country could ever rise up against the mightiest military in the world and expect to win. After all, we dont have tanks (well, some do ), helicopters, heavy artillery, etc. My answer to that is look at the insurgency in Iraq. They are barefooted peasants, armed only with AKs and IEDs and look at the hell they were giving us. IMHO a government that knows it will have to deal with random people taking shots at them from behind ever corner will think twice about rising up against its people.

Another example, maybe not as good is Waco TX. The government came busting through the doors thinking the people were gonna just lay down their arms, and instead they ran into a BUZZ SAW. Its terrible what happened there with all the kids killed and whatnot but you havent heard of the government messing around with any other religous groups since then have you? Not that I am religious at all. Quite the contrary. And Ill keep my opinions of organized religion to myself. But this is a free country and people have the right to believe and worship how they want, so long as they dont trample on the rights of others. And yeah I know there were some illegal things going on in Waco. Not justifying that at all. But the government had no right to handle it the way they did. And I think they will think twice before doing it again.

IMHO this freedom stuff is SERIOUS business and not to be taken lightly. To me, assault weapons are another form of checks and balances. Not trying to start a conflict, just my 0.02

+1000............

 

[Buford]

I saw an interesting editorial the other day in a paper about the gun control initiatives that were brought up in Virginia's General Assembly session this year in response to VA Tech (or using VA Tech as an excuse - all failed to pass). The gist of it was - everything the antis were pushing for this year saying it would "prevent another VA Tech" was already in place in Illinois and look how well that turned out.

 

[TxBrew]

The ignorance from some Americans over tradegies like this blows my mind.

Reading an article about this on CNN I saw comments left by people. "We need to ban guns, only police should have guns" ... "If we had a waiting period for guns this would not have happened." ... "This proves we need gun control!".

It's like people's brains shut off sometimes and they reject logic/common sense.

Not one comment was about the real reason of this tragedy; our mental health system here in the US is dysfunctional. Once you are 18 your family, friends or even Doctors can't force you to take medicine nor can they confine you. So families have to wait until their relative commits a crime in order to get them into long-term treatment. But once they get out of jail it's the same loop again, can't force medicine, no one keeps track of them until they commit another crime.

So families have to live in fear of their loved ones who have serious mental health issues but won't get help. Often they can't keep or get jobs so they are homeless. Despite being scared their families love them so they take them in.

The fear is a reality though and often results in harm of family members.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004105042_slayer03m.html
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,5143,695252283,00.html

Both these shooters had been processed for mental health treatments. The VT shooter was court ordered to take medicine but he didn't and there is no system to confirm he was.

 

[Soulive]

I'm clueless to gun laws, but how would more control help in these cases? I don't know how it works, but aren't these murderers obtaining/carrying the guns illegally anyway? I don't see how more laws would work with people who disregard the law anyway...

 

[zoebisch01]

Not one comment was about the real reason of this tragedy; our mental health system here in the US is dysfunctional. Once you are 18 your family, friends or even Doctors can't force you to take medicine nor can they confine you. So families have to wait until their relative commits a crime in order to get them into long-term treatment. But once they get out of jail it's the same loop again, can't force medicine, no one keeps track of them until they commit another crime.

Where I do agree with the fundamental problem being the lack of much needed help, I get a little nervous because then what should be the approach taken to verify the need for forced medication etc. It's a little scary tbh, because it could easily be an avenue to screwing someone up who isn't really a danger to those around them. I dunno, just something that comes to mind. I just saw "Reign over Me" and this is a similar situation (albeit I believe fictional) wrt the mental health issue.

It would be a function of phychiatrists and the legal system, both of which I don't feel particulary confident of.

 

[Buford]

I'm clueless to gun laws, but how would more control help in these cases? I don't know how it works, but aren't these murderers obtaining/carrying the guns illegally anyway? I don't see how more laws would work with people who disregard the law anyway...

Unless I heard incorrectly, other than not disclosing their history of mental illness (which considering that I don't believe was even technically required at the time as neither had been declared incompetent or committed, and neither had a criminal record precluding them from purchase) both Cho and the Illinois shooter did everything legally up until the commission of murder. Considering that Cho sat out his 30 days to purchase another handgun here in VA and the Illinois shooter jumped through all the legal hoops and obstacles necessary in that state to make his purchases, not one bit of preexisting gun control laws helped in the slightest.

Illinois is considered to be one of the strongest gun control states in the nation, and none of it stopped the shooter. Virginia overall is much more relaxed on or outright against gun control, but Cho's rampage was done in a zone declared to be "gun free" (at least for students and staff/faculty under threat of expulsion or firing, they can't prohibit non-affiliated people) by VA Tech.

The VA General assembly declined to hear the college carry bills which would prevent public colleges from having such a prohibition this session, and they died due to inaction.

 

[srm775]

Ok, it's BOTH the lame stream media and the Aholes who are stupid enough to be influenced by it. I agree with Orfy on no TV in the house. I use ours to watch DVD's on making beer only.

Exactly ... blaming the media for something like this, is akin to blaming the Remington model 870 shotgun that Stephen Kazmierczak used for killing 5 NIU students. It's just not a logical conclusion.

If it wasn't a shotgun, 9 mm, and .22 (what kind of pu$$y gets a duece-duece anyway), then it would have been a homemade explosive made with fertilizer and household cleaners, or driving a truck through a crowd or .... well any number of ways. The kid was just a little coward punk. I hope that any one associated with him ise haunted by this for the rest of their lives and have no peace.

 

[Hopleaf]

Anti-depressants imho. They will sell us anything.. heck they sold us children's cold medicine for 30 years and it does nothing

 

[TxBrew]

Jamaica is an excellent example of how well gun control works.

They started an Orwellian gun control move to curb violence in early 1970's.

How well has that worked?

2005 Jamaica had the highest murder rate of any country in the World. They usually rank about third.

 

[zoebisch01]

Exactly ... blaming the media for something like this, is akin to blaming the Remington model 870 shotgun that Stephen Kazmierczak used for killing 5 NIU students. It's just not a logical conclusion.

I agree, but it does play a role and I don't think anyone can deny that. The effect it has is dependent on many things including (but not limited to) the state of mind of the individual, the circumstances, etc. The list goes on and on.

But nobody can convince me that things like mimicing the gangsta lifestyle isn't going on (although this is a different topic, but related). I am personally not defending any individual who commits a horror such as the one that occured, but merely saying that there is always a reason that leads people to a given situation. Some can be controlled, while others cannot. And I wholeheartedly agree that one should always be responsible for one's own actions. Just wanted to clarify my personal stance

 

[rattler_mt]

the problem with using psychiatric history and such is where is the line drawn. ive never seen a psych-doc but i am on a anti-depressant. not cause im depressed, the doc prescribed it as a sleeping pill cause the regular sleeping pills were causing amnesia.....i actually lost most of a month cause my short term memory refused to move to long term memory while i was on one family of sleeping pills. the doc likes using Elavil to help ppl with chronic pain sleep cause you can control the dose from 5mg to 200mg.....granted 200mg would be practically comatosed but the 20-30mg i take at night lets me sleep and has no noticeable side effects, my wife can even wake me up in the middle of the night if need be.

so yah need to be very careful about regulating access to guns based on medical records. if yah just look at the list of meds i take i look like im depressed. also another point just cause someone is having problems with depression at one time doesnt mean they will be depressed for the rest of their life............

 

[Homercidal]

The big news stories, the one about mass and multi murder are sensationalistic, and don't represent the VAST majority of gun murders in the country: Gang and Drug crime.

The big news stories are often touted as a reason for the gun laws, but they are not. They represent a small fraction of all gun crime. They are done by lunatics, who are completely over the edge. Sorry to say, you can't stop that from happening.

I'm completely with EdW on this. I live in MI, and we have ccw laws in place. I own... 8 guns or so, many passed down from my grandfather and father (rest their souls), including a .308 Savage 1899C from 1908, a 12Ga. Lever action from before that, my dad's .06 deer rifle, several .22s for small game and targeting, and a civil war replica New Army Revolver cap and ball (built a kit, it was fun).

What this country needs is not more gun control, but more people control. I don't mean more laws restricting people, I mean parents who act like parents. Who give a damn about their kids, the neighbors kids, and their friends' kids. Who will help guide kids to doing what is right and honest, and who know when they make a mistake, they are responsible, and will stand up and take their punishment like a man (or woman).

There is too much greed today. Frivolous lawsuits have given people an entitlement attitude, until it has permeated our society. People need to stop thinking the world owes them anything, and come to the conclusion that, "Hey, life sucks sometimes, but it's up to me to make a difference."

 

[rattler_mt]

. I own... 8 guns or so, many passed down from my grandfather and father (rest their souls), including a .308 Savage 1899C from 1908, a 12Ga. Lever action from before that, my dad's .06 deer rifle, several .22s for small game and targeting, and a civil war replica New Army Revolver cap and ball (built a kit, it was fun).

not to pick nits but i do believe your Savage 1899C is in 300 Savage.....not 308....the 308 didnt come out till 1952 .................................sorry, im a gun loony and cant help myself

i agree with yah though.......most these big news shootings were done by someone going over the edge......short of locking every person up in a paded room yah cant protect yourself from such a thing........if they dont use a gun they will use a bomb, or a baseball bat or an ax or a car or whatever........once they set out to kill ppl there is no stopping them other than to kill them..........