ANOTHER mass shooting?

[Thirdeye]

Personal attacks ruin threads like this thirdeye. If someone differs in opinion, respect their right to their opinion. I am sure Orfy was being tongue in cheek with his "take it outside" comment. As I stated earlier, there are some great ideas/opinions being put up here, lets keep it educational and listen to what the other guy has to say.

People thinking only their line of reasoning is right is probably part of the reason these things are happening.

Thanks for the lecture buddy! Unfortunately, youre a few posts late.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=559543&postcount=86

 

[uglygoat]

feck... i don't have a fire extinguisher in my house either, nor have i ever had one....

 

[z987k]

Oh I don't have time to read the whole thread but I figured I'd put my 2 cents in anyways.... it seems like we are in a bit of an agreement though, and this comes from what a lot of people would consider a "liberal"... gun control laws only hurt the law abiding citizen.

Here in Texas you have to pass a VERY stringent background check to be able to carry concealed. No felonies, no misdemeanors, no substance abuse, no psych problems, etc. You are fingerprinted and both the local and FBI run checks. This is after 10 hours of training and a written and practical exam.

CHL holders tend to be the most law abiding citizens out there (at least in Texas) due to the process to obtain the privilege.

And if I lived in a state that allowed it, I'd have one... would I carry all the time... probably not, but it sure seems there is becoming more and more of a need.
The thing is, if the criminals are the only ones with the guns who's to stop them from doing whatever they want, you can't have a police officer on every corner(which brings up another bag of worms.)

Basically people don't like getting shot. This goes for criminals and law abiding citizens alike. If there is a damn good chance the person is going to get shot back at right away they will think a lot more before carrying out something like this.

 

[aekdbbop]

Ib4tl!!!!!

 

[Thirdeye]

Oh I don't have time to read the whole thread but I figured I'd put my 2 cents in anyways.... it seems like we are in a bit of an agreement though, and this comes from what a lot of people would consider a "liberal"... gun control laws only hurt the law abiding citizen.


And if I lived in a state that allowed it, I'd have one... would I carry all the time... probably not, but it sure seems there is becoming more and more of a need.
The thing is, if the criminals are the only ones with the guns who's to stop them from doing whatever they want, you can't have a police officer on every corner(which brings up another bag of worms.)

Basically people don't like getting shot. This goes for criminals and law abiding citizens alike. If there is a damn good chance the person is going to get shot back at right away they will think a lot more before carrying out something like this.

Ya know, I am one of the most socially liberal people you will ever meet. However, I hardly EVER vote that way and the number one reason is liberal politicians and their "feel good" gun laws. Look at D.C. Even with the gun ban, its still one of the most violent cities in the country. Most gun control laws only empower criminals.

Its funny that youre from Illinois. I was accepted to grad school there at UI Urbana Champagne, into the physics department for condensed matter, number one ranked condensed matter physics school in the country.

Turned it down, simply bc of the gun laws.

 

[uglygoat]

condensed matter? like lead hitting solid skull?, i mean bone matter... :rockin:

 

[Thirdeye]

condensed matter? like lead hitting solid skull? :rockin:

Not exactly. Lead hitting solid skull is more of a macroscopic, classical physics problem. May have been an interesting problem in Newton's time but not anymore!

 

[talleymonster]

'Nuff Said.


Not mine, but my buddies collection. My personal colection is slightly smaller.

 

[capcrnch]

This post has nothing to add to the thread, but as a gun owner, CCW holder and hunter, I just wanted to be IN.

Thanks,
Have a great evening,
Rich

 

[uglygoat]

i think i was pawnd...

damned my not knowing phsyics, or owning an arsenal!!!!!!!

i know how yeast works on sugar based soulitons...

 

[z987k]

Ya know, I am one of the most socially liberal people you will ever meet. However, I hardly EVER vote that way and the number one reason is liberal politicians and their "feel good" gun laws. Look at D.C. Even with the gun ban, its still one of the most violent cities in the country. Most gun control laws only empower criminals.

Its funny that youre from Illinois. I was accepted to grad school there at UI Urbana Champagne, into the physics department for condensed matter, number one ranked condensed matter physics school in the country.

Turned it down, simply bc of the gun laws.

that seems like a funny reason to turn down grad school. I mean you can move away as soon as your done.... I know I'm going to get the hell out of this state as soon as I can.... but not because of gun laws.

BTW, I am from UIUC.... where the shooter went to grad school so we're hearing all about this everywhere.

 

[Thirdeye]

'Nuff Said.
Not mine, but my buddies collection. My personal colection is slightly smaller.

Nice 1911 up there in the corner! Ive recently been bitten by that bug.

 

[Thirdeye]

that seems like a funny reason to turn down grad school. I mean you can move away as soon as your done.... I know I'm going to get the hell out of this state as soon as I can.... but not because of gun laws.

BTW, I am from UIUC.... where the shooter went to grad school so we're hearing all about this everywhere.

I never said I turned down grad school altogether. I had decent options.

 

[DeathBrewer]

seems like guns are pretty important to you

 

[Warped04]

feck... i don't have a fire extinguisher in my house either, nor have i ever had one....

I used to think the same thing until my house caught on fire, and had the propane guy not shown up and put it out, I would have been screwed.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Wow, I can't believe it, I'm IB4TL!!!!

My .02:

I own guns. They are hunting weapons. I own no handguns, though many of those are also used as hunting weapons.

Orfy, you said it yourself: Very few crimes are committed with legally owned guns. I think if we enacted some sort of gun control, the gun crimes wouldn't change, just the legality of the gun ownership.

And thirdeye, apparently all of your PHD education hasn't taught you how to be civil. If you can't voice your opinion nicely, then shut it.

 

[buraglio]

that seems like a funny reason to turn down grad school. I mean you can move away as soon as your done.... I know I'm going to get the hell out of this state as soon as I can.... but not because of gun laws.

BTW, I am from UIUC.... where the shooter went to grad school so we're hearing all about this everywhere.

I work at UIUC so I'm in the same area as z987k, and he's right, it is everywhere here. I'm really familiar with the NIU area, I spend some time up there at least once a year... It's just a shame. I'm about as apathetic as you can get, but this kinda thing is just a bad deal all around.
Life will always be there to kick you in the ass, it's just a fact. This kind of thing solves nothing.

 

[Ize]

It's funny to hear all the people claim that all the problems with violence would be solved by removing the guns. I've lived in three states that allow its citizens to carry concealed weapons if they choose to and complete the required background checks and training. I've also lived in a state, oklahoma, where a guy with a grudge filled a Ryder Truck full of ammonia nitrate and diesel fuel and parked it outside the federal building.

Crazy people will always find a way to do the harm that they seek, be in through a gun, a knife, a truck or a subway in London.

Excellent post, dead on right, and cuts thru the BS too. It's not the choice of weapon, it's the nutbag that wields any form of weapon for whatever reason their addled brain tells em' to.

Did I end a sentence with a preposition? I never could figure that one out...

Ize

 

[PeteOz77]

how many crack heads do you have busting down your door in canberra?

Not one! And I don't have a gun either, I was just making a point. People who live in those type of situations won't have much fun in a fistfight.

 

[landhoney]

I need to get a gun. Seriously, just for home protection. Basically this post is IB4TL, but I'm not for increased gun control. I will say olllllo's words in threads like these often put things in perspective and coool everybody down. olllllo......?

 

[Orfy]

Thirdeye.

The "take it outside" comment was to show how things can be handled without guns and weapons and in fact was relating that in this country 99.9% of the time violence is no gun related.
It was also to demonstrate that such statements can not be made without getting oneself in trouble. Saying such things would land you in a fight if said in most local bars in the UK.

I am not offended easily and not by your comments.
I 100% do not agree with what you said and thought they were out of line and over the top.

That's why I asked you to elaborate.

I appreciate the apology and understand you backing down.
I was not trying to make you do that. I just wanted you to substantiate your statement.
There are not many of us who live in a truly free country and I personally do not see how owning guns makes a country "Free"

Now before anyone jumps to conclusions about my position on fire arms you should know that whilst I do not think they should be readily available to the public in this country I do not own and in my current circumstances would not own any firearms, I do have certificates for marksmanship. I do occasional hunt for food and I used to instruct sessions using small bore rifles and shotguns.

 

[Ryanh1801]

I need to get a gun. Seriously, just for home protection. Basically this post is IB4TL, but I'm not for increased gun control. I will say olllllo's words in threads like these often put things in perspective and coool everybody down. olllllo......?

Ill tell you what, we had a guy talk in one of my classes that was in a wheel chair, from when a gang came into his house, put a shot gun to him and his wife.. Killed his wife and severed his spine.. After hearing about his ordeal, I will never not have a gun by my bed. Its just not worth the risk anymore with all the idiots out there.

 

[Orfy]

There is the argument that criminals need guns because every one has guns.
Then there is the argument that if you both have guns then someone needs to shoot.

The average burglar over here may have a knife.
I can take on a knife with a 2x2 or just about anything
If I'm up against a gun I give in.

The laws are ****ed up here. If some one breaks into my house and the dogs bites the then I can be sued. I am not allowed to attack a burgular!!!
I come across an intruder in my house I will end up in jail because I will put him in hostpital (If he doesn't have a gun)

I may not agree with a gun culture and maybe glad we do not have one here but I respect everyone's views who see it as a right that they will not and do not want to give up.

==============================

On a side note about this thread.
No one is going to change anyones mind.

As long as we all understand that and it doesn't get personal again then I don't see a problem with it.

==========================

 

[MikeFlynn74]

The real problem is now that when you legally kill the stupid bastards breaking into your house. The media and the liberals make sure you pay for it.

 

[DeathBrewer]

well put, orfy, but may still need another history lesson...

 

[Chris_Dog]

RE: Kennesaw GA (The town where every house is supposed to have a gun)

I don't think comparing a smallish town in GA to a suburb of Chicago is fair.

Prior to the law passing in the 80's I don't think there was a lot of gun violence in Kennesaw.
I think the law was passed in response to the violence in Atl. Like saying "not in our town".



For the record I am not for gun "control" and own a few myself. I am among the people who think that if guns were illegal only criminals would have them. (I would be 1 of them). I agree that differences should not be settled by weapons of any sort. However for protection they can't be beat.



I think at least 1 thing is being missed from this conversation. Guns can't be un-invented. Making them illegal will not get rid of them. That is particularly true in the USA there are just to many.

 

[EdWort]

The laws are ****ed up here. If some one breaks into my house and the dogs bites the then I can be sued. I am not allowed to attack a burgular!!!
I come across an intruder in my house I will end up in jail because I will put him in hostpital (If he doesn't have a gun)

What's up with that? Why has England emasculated their citizens and left them with fear of defending themselves against scum that would do them harm?

I for one do not understand why criminals in England have more rights and protection under the law than their victims. WTF?

Many states here in the US have put laws on the books that protect home owners from BS law suits from criminals (or their surviving families) who are killed or injured in the process of breaking into someone's home at night.

Most Americans have the right to use that 2x4 up side an intruders head and the dogs can have at em too. It's a shame that British people are forced to retreat and flee their house and allow the criminal to do as he pleases. I think the government has lost their minds in their proper role here as protector.

 

[Brew-boy]

Remember that GUNS do not kill people, people kill people. Its the sick bastards out there with screwed up heads, weaklings really to go and shoot innocent people.

Not sure how to fix the problems but the guns are not the issue its the people using them.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

The laws are ****ed up here. If some one breaks into my house and the dogs bites the then I can be sued. I am not allowed to attack a burgular!!!
I come across an intruder in my house I will end up in jail because I will put him in hostpital (If he doesn't have a gun)

Same fckued up laws here, Orfy.

 

[EdWort]

Same fckued up laws here, Orfy.

Not in Texas Bernie. Me & Mr. Mossberg will be just fine.