ANOTHER mass shooting?

[zbeeblebrox]

off topic.
ahh yes the Lahti L-39 20mm anti tank rifle. on the C&R(curios and relics) list and one day i will own one. yet another great product of Finland.
now for on topic.
im not sure its the violence in tv/movies/video games that leads toward violence in real life (although i don't doubt that it may teach people how to commit acts of violence). i think it is more a problem of parenting of children. meaning the lack of knowledge of right from wrong. unless completely mentally ill the people who commit these horrible crimes believed somewhere in their mind that it is ok to solve their own problems by hurting innocent people.

 

[xellios]

In a way, this really shows whats wrong with the gun control argument on a much smaller scale. Those that chose to obey the law are left defenseless sitting ducks while the criminals get free reign.

The so called "gun free" zones in every school do nothing to stop a would be shooter. As if anyone really honestly thought an invisible barrier would...

A few guns in the hands of some responsible people would have made this situation turn out much much different.

Lets not forget that more times then not, these are angst filled punks that commit these crimes.

Once they start blasting people they have reached the point of no return, but perhaps if a would be shooter knows that some of the teachers on campus are armed, he might think twice about going forward with his suicide mission. The problem could very well be resolved before it even starts.

 

[EdWort]

Well, you don't read about this happening in England. Stricter gun control laws there, or less of a f$%#% up culture? I agree with the NRA...and for that reason I think it's time to repeal the second amendment.

Repeal the 2nd Amendment? I don't think so. The people of England have been emasculated and the criminials hold all the cards (including the guns). Englands libtard governement even pays the legal fees for the criminal's family to sue the person who killed in self defence. It's pathetic. Now they want to ban kitchen knives over there.

England and Wales have the highest crime rate among the world's leading economies, according to a new report by the United Nations.
The survey, which is likely to prove embarrassing to David Blunkett, the Home Secretary. shows that people are more likely to be mugged, burgled, robbed or assaulted here than in America, Germany, Russia, South Africa or any other of the world's 20 largest nations. Only the Dominican Republic, New Zealand and Finland have higher crime rates than England and Wales.

Add to that unchecked immigration, and an Arch Bishop who says adopting Sharia law in England is unavoidable.

Less F'dd up in England? I think not.

 

[EdWort]

Once they start blasting people they have reached the point of no return, but perhaps if a would be shooter knows that some of the teachers on campus are armed, he might think twice about going forward with his suicide mission. The problem could very well be resolved before it even starts.

Wackos will never be stopped.

Armed citizens, however, can reduce the amount of senseless killing by a major factor by taking out the wacko early in his quest.

 

[Soulive]

Armed citizens, however, can reduce the amount of senseless killing by a major factor by taking out the wacko early in his quest.

I don't disagree with that, but how do you guarantee those armed citizens aren't potentially wackos? I'm clueless when it comes to guns, but would they have to pass emotional/psychological tests?

 

[EdWort]

I don't disagree with that, but how do you guarantee those armed citizens aren't potentially wackos? I'm clueless when it comes to guns, but would they have to pass emotional/psychological tests?

Here in Texas you have to pass a VERY stringent background check to be able to carry concealed. No felonies, no misdemeanors, no substance abuse, no psych problems, etc. You are fingerprinted and both the local and FBI run checks. This is after 10 hours of training and a written and practical exam.

CHL holders tend to be the most law abiding citizens out there (at least in Texas) due to the process to obtain the privilege.

 

[zoebisch01]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but seriously does anyone think the shootings in VA last year would have gone very far if responsible citizens or the (campus) police were packing on campus? I don't think so.

I feel 'Gun control' is a moot point in this nation because we will always have a black market. You can't make it go away. One of the only real successful nations to implement a gun control methodology is Japan. And it is not 100% effective because the Japanese gangsters still obtain and use guns (from the black market illegally). And more importantly it comes with a HUGE price in that basically the police can search you at any time for reasonable suspicion of carrying a firearm (or sword). And And the other side of the coin is that the police themselves do not generally carry firearms. Does anyone ever see that happening here?

The only way gun control would ever be effective would be to implement a police state, and quite frankly I say "no thanks". The solution? I don't claim to have one or know what should be done...but for starters we could probably do a better job as a society from isolating ourselves from one another. Most cases the people in mass shootings are disturbed individuals. People are angry, the youth is angry...but at what? How does one go so long before snapping? In many cases these people are angry and disturbed and need help, or need to be stopped before they cause harm to others.

 

[Soulive]

Here in Texas you have to pass a VERY stringent background check to be able to carry concealed. No felonies, no misdemeanors, no substance abuse, no psych problems, etc. You are fingerprinted and both the local and FBI run checks. This is after 10 hours of training and a written and practical exam.

CHL holders tend to be the most law abiding citizens out there (at least in Texas) due to the process to obtain the privilege.

If that were the protocol everywhere, I'd agree with it. My dad is a retired cop (honest, good variety) and I know if he were in that lecture hall, that kid would've been dropped in about 1.5 seconds. Then again, if it were made known that these people were in the schools, it'd most likely serve as prevention. These cowards always do this to unarmed innocent people...

 

[Soulive]

People are angry, the youth is angry...but at what? How does one go so long before snapping? In many cases these people are angry and disturbed and need help, or need to be stopped before they cause harm to others.

But in many cases they're not helped. In many, many cases irresponsible doctors just feed them meds and write them off. Then one day they think they don't need their meds and they snap. I think it comes down to the laziness of many doctors and parents today...

 

[PurdyGood]

I think another factor that contributes to all of this is the aforementioned "wackos." It is a known fact that underlying mental illness (depression, schizophrenia, bipolar, mood/personality disorder, etc.) commonly unveils itself during the college years. It is multifactorial as to why this occurs: take someone with a delicate hormonal/neurotransmitter balance out of the environment that they are accustomed to, throw them into a brand new place with brand new people and A LOT of new stressors, mix that with some excessive substance use, and BAM! Mental illness that was imminent becomes apparent. Without appropriate treatment, they "crack" and pull stuff like this shooting. Not much we can do about this, except maybe education and awareness so that friends and family can recognize the signs and symptoms and get the person appropriate treatment. (medication PLUS psychotherapy)
I agree that parenting (or the lack thereof) is a huge problem in today's society, and this is definitely another contributing factor.
Also, "Firearm control" involves hitting your target.

 

[EvilTOJ]

Gun control laws certainly wouldn't have mattered to this guy. He went off his rocker due to a corrupt city government that ruined his life and built himself a tank out of a bulldozer.

On the other hand, if the citizenry were all armed, it wouldn't have mattered either. In fact, the police shot at him multiple times but the killdozer was immune to small arms fire.

So yea, people can go on a rampage without simply buying a gun and going off half cocked.

 

[Donner]

I feel 'Gun control' is a moot point in this nation because we will always have a black market. You can't make it go away. One of the only real successful nations to implement a gun control methodology is Japan. And it is not 100% effective because the Japanese gangsters still obtain and use guns (from the black market illegally). And more importantly it comes with a HUGE price in that basically the police can search you at any time for reasonable suspicion of carrying a firearm (or sword). And And the other side of the coin is that the police themselves do not generally carry firearms. Does anyone ever see that happening here?

The only way gun control would ever be effective would be to implement a police state, and quite frankly I say "no thanks". The solution? I don't claim to have one or know what should be done...but for starters we could probably do a better job as a society from isolating ourselves from one another. Most cases the people in mass shootings are disturbed individuals. People are angry, the youth is angry...but at what? How does one go so long before snapping? In many cases these people are angry and disturbed and need help, or need to be stopped before they cause harm to others.

Even Japan's gun laws haven't stopped the problem of crazy people doing bad things. Just remember the guy who went on a knife rampage in 2001.

If people think that banning guns would fix this, go take a flight somewhere and see all the different things that the TSA bans. If guns were the only threat out there, why are box cutters now banned? Oh wait, that's right, a group of people were so determined to do others harm that they found a way around the protects that had been put into place.

 

[Lil' Sparky]

The recent shooting at New Life Church in Co is a GREAT example of how legally armed citizens can put an end to things like this. Yes, the gunman did kill two people, but had the lady with a concealed weapon not stopped him, how many more would the nut case have killed?

A little blog I found on it: http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2007/12/shooting_at_new_1.php

When I lived in New Mexico, you would see people walking around town, in the mall, etc. with a weapon in full sight (don't think they had concealed carry then, not sure now). Anyway, you'd have to be a retarded psycho to try and pull something in a public place there, except possibly in "Gun Free Zones".

 

[Evan!]

Kodos: It looks like the Earthlings won.

Kang: Did they? Right now they have a board with a nail in it. But they won't stop there. Soon they will make bigger boards with bigger nails until they make a board with a nail in it so big it will destroy them all!

 

[njnear76]

In my opinion the problem is not guns. The problem is us. American society is based on fear and violence. Based on how much we consume, we just can't get enough of the stuff.

 

[Evan!]

In my opinion the problem is not guns. The problem is us. American society is based on fear and violence.

As absurd as the movie was, there was one thing to take home from "Bowling for Columbine": the fact that up in Canadia, there are many more guns per capita, but the gun crime rate is much lower. So is getting rid of the guns really the answer?

 

[srm775]

In my opinion the problem is not guns. The problem is us. American society is based on fear and violence.

Not sure about society being based on fear and violence, but I would definitely say the problem is "them." I'm so sick and tired of these little rat-punks thinging they have to be "hard-core."

It was a 6'4", 140 lbs little b!tch punk that probably got picked on and wanted to show everyone up. These d@mn kids these days are so wussified that they can't take their lumps like a man. I hope as soon as his name is released (in about 10 min.) someone goes to his house and beats the crap out of his parents for not teaching him to be a man. Just like they should have done with that VA-Tech kid.

 

[Soulive]

Not sure about society being based on fear and violence, but I would definitely say the problem is "them." I'm so sick and tired of these little rat-punks thinging they have to be "hard-core."

It was a 6'4", 140 lbs little b!tch punk that probably got picked on and wanted to show everyone up. These d@mn kids these days are so wussified that they can't take their lumps like a man. I hope as soon as his name is released (in about 10 min.) someone goes to his house and beats the crap out of his parents for not teaching him to be a man. Just like they should have done with that VA-Tech kid.

That's harsher than I would've put it, but I agree that so many people under the age of 25 (for instancel) can't cope with life. So many people my age and younger have no problems, yet they medicate or self-medicate. Meanwhile people like my grandfather slept on a park bench when he was 16 and is one of the happiest people I know. Too many "generation me" mindsets out there...

 

[njnear76]

I hope as soon as his name is released (in about 10 min.) someone goes to his house and beats the crap out of his parents for not teaching him to be a man. Just like they should have done with that VA-Tech kid.

Well, you are right that it all comes down to how the kid was raised. The parents should be keeping tabs on their kids and teaching them that getting teased and made fun of happens to everyone and it's no big deal.

Every time something like this happens, it is all over the news. Instantly making the murderer into a martyr for disenfranchised losers. In their eyes he got even and that makes him their hero. It's disgusting, but that is what some of these kids think when see a story like this on the evening news.

 

[srm775]

Driving home yesterday, I saw three black, unmarked suburbans heading from the City to Dekalb. I'm positive it was Feds heading to DeKalb ... the only city in the direction they were heading was DeKalb.

 

[Beerthoven]

Its a mistake to assume that people like the shooter are somehow "new". Disenfranchised and angry people have always been here and they always will be. 50 years ago a guy like this would have become an alcoholic and beat his wife, kids, and dog, and it would have gone on like that until he died of a heart attack at age 55.

What is new is the idea of the mass shooting/suicide and the public spectactle that follows. I was watching "Lost" last night and during the commercial breaks the local TV news ran sensationalist promos about "Another college shooting! Tune in at 11 for details!" It was disgusting. Now all the other borderline psycopaths out there will have another example to follow, and some surely will.

There is a deeper sickness in our society that leads to events like this. I don't know what the answer is, but angry calls to arm every citizen and lynch mob the parents are probably closer the problem than the solution.

 

[Hopleaf]

I want to see independant research on how many of the people who do this stuff are on Zoloft and the like.

 

[zoebisch01]

I want to see independant research on how many of the people who do this stuff are on Zoloft and the like.

Don't get me started on presciption med issues (legal, not the black market use). Not to make this a whole other topic, but good Lord the doctors are the new dealers. They do it legally. I can't tell you how many times I have directly encountered people that have suffered because of over medication or improper medication.

A friend of mine (before we were friends) started getting really depressed and suicidal. Comes to find out that the medication he was on, the doctor just basically kept renewing the prescription, was only supposed to be used for like 6 months with counseling. The doctor never informed him of this. He went off the meds and was better in a week. That's just one out of many many cases I know.

 

[Soulive]

Don't get me started on presciption med issues (legal, not the black market use). Not to make this a whole other topic, but good Lord the doctors are the new dealers. They do it legally. I can't tell you how many times I have directly encountered people that have suffered because of over medication or improper medication.

Yup, as I mentioned earlier they're just lazy. Instead of trying to solve peoples issues, they take the easy route of throwing pills at them. I had anxiety problems for a while and refused to take anything, but I was offered an Rx over and over...

 

[srm775]

A friend of mine (before we were friends) started getting really depressed and suicidal. Comes to find out that the medication he was on, the doctor just basically kept renewing the prescription, was only supposed to be used for like 6 months with counseling. The doctor never informed him of this. He went off the meds and was better in a week. That's just one out of many many cases I know.

Doctors, as much as we want them to be, aren't omnipotent. They can only prescribe and adjust medications as well as the feedback they get from patients. Far too often you hear about people griping that their pain medication just isn't working and the doctor won't do anything about it. Then when you ask them if they've talked to their physician about it you get the "Well, no ..."

It's the same thing with anti-depressants. All too often people willing to be a passive participant in their health and well-being care. It's easy that way, then it's not their fault but their doctor's fault/therapists/psychiatrists fault.

I'm not suggesting that your friend was in the same situation, but you got to ask yourself, did he do everything he could/should to ensure the proper and best care for himself.

 

[EdWort]

In my opinion the problem is not guns. The problem is us. American society is based on fear and violence. Based on how much we consume, we just can't get enough of the stuff.

If that is true and is so bad, then why are so many people trying to come to America?

Why has America in just over 200 years become the biggest economy and biggest innovator in history? Could it be a simple thing like freedom?

Wackos are everywhere, but has anyone noticed that they have never tried shooting people at a Gun Show? Noooo, they choose to go where it is safe for them, a place where guns are not allowed by law. Laws do not apply to wackos and more people die from stupid laws every day.

 

[zoebisch01]

Even Japan's gun laws haven't stopped the problem of crazy people doing bad things. Just remember the guy who went on a knife rampage in 2001.

If people think that banning guns would fix this, go take a flight somewhere and see all the different things that the TSA bans. If guns were the only threat out there, why are box cutters now banned? Oh wait, that's right, a group of people were so determined to do others harm that they found a way around the protects that had been put into place.

Hey I agree man. I was talking to the owner of a daycare once. She mentioned that they took all the toy guns away because they thought it would make the kids play 'more civilized'. Well the kids took the crackers at snack, broke off a piece making a 'cracker gun'.

 

[srm775]

It appears as though he was on some sort of medication

 

[zoebisch01]

I'm not suggesting that your friend was in the same situation, but you got to ask yourself, did he do everything he could/should to ensure the proper and best care for himself.

Well the real problem is the common perception of doctors as being the guys that have all the answers. It is a much deeper situation than simply blameshifting to either/or. I agree wholeheartedly that the individual should be responsible for his/her own actions and should do whatever is necessary to 'get well'.

However, in many cases the 'responsible' thing is to go to the doctor for help and when the doctor says "this will help" I'd imagine that most people trust this to be so. My friend is a rather intelligent fellow who has been through a lot. I could easily have seen the case going extremely sour if someone who could not make the connection between the drug and the depression was in his shoes.

But to go back on topic and tie this all in, D) it's really quite clear that there is no simple solution to these problems...damn I need a homebrew now

 

[Alamo_Beer]

I'm 21. I've grown up with this. When I was in High School there was Columbine. Now in college there is Virgina Tech and now this. My question is, whats next? Is this going to follow me for the rest of my life? In 5-10years are school shootings going to be work shootings? Then retirement community shootings?

I was in class last night when I found out. Our prof said something about it and I didn't know what she meant. I looked it up on my phone and saw that 18 people were shot in Dekalb. I showed it to the guy next to me and he said "That would never happen here." At first I thought he was just being stupid bc it could happen any where. Then he said "Because I have a concealed handgun."

It's probubly not the most legal thing to do but I'm totaly with that guy. Schools are becoming dangerous and even if your caught with a licensed concealed handgun I'd rather pay the $2000 or whatever than not carry.

I don't have my CHL yet buy my old man and I are going to take the test this summer.

Oh and for everyone talking about gun control. This is gun control:

EDIT: One more thing. While the MAJOR school shootings get lots of press time it just sickens me that there are OTHER school shootings that get just a blub. There should be NO school shootings. You know what I'm talking about, like a week or two after Virgina Tech there was a shooting at a high school that didn't get that much attention. *goes to clean guns*