Another leak?

[Mdean4421]

New to kegerator world. Brand new KegCo Outdoor kegerator dual 1/4 barrels. First PRV valve was faulty and leaked a whole tank of air. Got new one that cam from Kegco. Everything was working well for most of summer. Drained two 1/4 barrel kegs this summer. Hooked up 2 more. Had about 40-60 beers off them. Now air is completely out. I was out of town on vacation for 10 days. Poured a beer and it tasted off and was extra foamy. Looked at air tank and to my surprise completely empty. My questions are;

1.) Is my beer ruined? (Can't get new air tank until Monday)
2.) How long is a tank of air suppose to last? I was told dozens of kegs, so now I'm confused.
3.) When this happens is it important to unhook the kegs to prevent them from going bad?

 

[Broken Crow]

I just went back and looked at your first thread back in May, and looking at the first pic you posted leaves me to ask:
Do you have a hose-clamp on the gas-line>regulator barb?
You should probably get more than 4 1/4 barrels from a tank of CO2.
(Just so your thread doesn't get derailed: Please: Call it CO2 and not 'air'...air-tanks are for divers and will ruin your beer.)

 

[camonick]

I just went back and looked at your first thread back in May, and looking at the first pic you posted leaves me to ask:
Do you have a hose-clamp on the gas-line>regulator barb?
You should probably get more than 4 1/4 barrels from a tank of CO2.
(Just so your thread doesn't get derailed: Please: Call it CO2 and not 'air'...air-tanks are for divers and will ruin your beer.)

I was just typing something similar.
I assume that by “air”, I hope OP meant CO2

 

[camonick]

Do you have a hose-clamp on the gas-line>regulator barb?

I too just looked at the photos in the other thread the OP posted earlier and I don’t see any clamps on any of the hoses either. That would be a major problem with regards to massive leaks.

Edit:
These are the photos from OP’s thread earlier this summer. I don’t see any clamps on either shutoff valve at the regulator and only a flimsy nylon type “pinch” clamp on the sanke connection at the keg. Oetiker type clamps are recommended at these locations with a standard type worm clamp being a possible 2nd option that’s at least better than nothing. If new kegs were recently installed and things were jostled around and tweaked, a new leak could definitely have been created.

 

[Mdean4421]

Thanks guys! That was super fast. Yes, CO2. I just followed the instructions from KegCo, but you are right no clamps here. I can get 2 oetiker clamps on these and replace the plastic clamps that came with the it with oetiker clamps as well. I'll throw some worm clamps behind all them as well to be double sure. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks!

 

[Bobby_M]

Most importantly, you need to learn how to do a leak down test to see if you're all good on the plumbing. With the keg couplers in the "not tapped" position:
https://www.brewhardware.com/category_s/1992.htm

 

[Mdean4421]

I sprayed soapy water on all connection points & no bubbles, however, it was when the kegs were tapped. I'll try today untapped

 

[Bobby_M]

The leak down procedure will tell you with absolute certainty if you have a leak in the plumbing, regulator, or regulator to tank connection. I've found these leaks to be happening via this method without seeing any bubbles initially. If it shows you have a leak, push the pressure up to 40psi and start with the soap starting at the tank connection. If everything passes with the couplers untapped, then tap them and see if you're leaking between the keg and coupler. Sometimes those gaskets get dried out and sometimes the top surface of the keg is beat up enough that the gasket can't seal.

 

[Mdean4421]

Thanks! Just did the double oetiker and worm clips on the regulator and tap connection. Will get more CO2 tomorrow.

@Bobby_M - I'm not super handy (just a beer lover), so forgive the elementary question. You are saying hook regulator up to CO2 tank, attach the couplers to the kegs, but don't push the lever down to actually tap them. Then turn the CO2 on & open up the cut off valves. If the CO2 level goes down on the regulator I'd know I have a leak? If level does go down proceed to spray down the connections at 40 PSI to find leak. If level doesn't drop I should be fine?

 

[Bobby_M]

Thanks! Just did the double oetiker and worm clips on the regulator and tap connection. Will get more CO2 tomorrow.

@Bobby_M - I'm not super handy (just a beer lover), so forgive the elementary question. You are saying hook regulator up to CO2 tank, attach the couplers to the kegs, but don't push the lever down to actually tap them. Then turn the CO2 on & open up the cut off valves. If the CO2 level goes down on the regulator I'd know I have a leak? If level does go down proceed to spray down the connections at 40 PSI to find leak. If level doesn't drop I should be fine?

Yes that's everything. When the coupler handles are in the up position, they close off the CO2 so it won't go into the keg. When you're checking for a leak down, you don't want the entire system involved because it makes it harder to find the source of the leak. In much larger complicated systems, you'd start at the regulator with the output valves turned off, then pressurize more and more of the distribution system outward until you find the leak.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Check the actual tank valve also. I had a tank leak if the tank valve was not fully open (or closed). If I just cracked it, say halfway, it would leak.
Also the little valves below the regulator. I had several of those do the same. If they were fully open or closed no leak. If the were not quite all the way open (vertical) they leaked.

 

[Jim R]

Several years ago I had a leak and discovered my tank was empty (frustrating). It certainly isn't that difficult to prevent leaks but I also solved the problem by just not leaving the CO2 tank on all the time.

Now after I keg, I pressurize the keg to the correct CO2 pressure once or twice a day for the first couple days when I walk past the refrigerator as the beer absorbs CO2 and then shut off the tank. After a few days, the beer is perfectly carbonated. Then I just repressurize the keg after drinking and, again, just shut off the CO2. My beer is carbonated perfectly and there is zero chance of losing CO2 because I never leave the tank turned on for more than a few seconds. I don't lose anything by not leaving the tank on 24/7 except the 5-10 seconds of time that it takes to repressurize the tank after drinking. The tank doesn't need to be on 24/7.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw - and not judging - but that would be what we engineers call a "work-around" - or "problem avoidance" - not a "solution".
The solution is to find the leak(s) and fix it. Which admittedly can be a difficult, tedious pita. But it can be done.

I have 3 separate CO2 systems serving 3 fridges and a keezer with two dual body and one single body primary regulators with a total of four manifolds and a 23 CO2 QDs. It took a lot of submersion testing all that in chunks to find and correct 95% of the problems before final assembly of each system. Even then I had to cure a couple of tiny but annoying leaks, one of which was a poorly sealed PRV on one Chudnow regulator, and the other a cracked nylon "fish eye" flare washer under a swivel nut.

Since those days I've been able to leave those systems (and a beer gas system for my stout) always connected and always on, even when The Spousal Unit and I are out of the country for a couple of weeks. It's the way it should be...

Cheers!

 

[Jim R]

I also shut off the valve on the propane tanks on my gas grill and on my home brewing propane burner after I use them although I don't think I have any leaks so I should be able to leave them on 24/7.

I agree with you that if you meticulously check and maintain every single gasket, seal, valve and hose clamp from the tank regulator components to all of the gaskets on the kegs, there should be no reason to shut off any of these gas tanks. On the other hand, there is no real downside to simply turning off the tank valves and never worrying about losing gas anymore.

 

[Mdean4421]

Ahhh. Did the leak down test. Gauge didn’t noticeably go down after hour. So turned tapped kegs and sprayed all those connections with soapy water too. No bubbles. Cut kegerator off temporarily too to listen better. No hissing. No bubbles anywhere. Thought great. Tank valve opened up all way. Plastic washer inside it. That was Friday. Had a cold beer out of it. Saturday and Sunday I was busy. Today checked it and damn tank of air is now just above red zone empty. Cut it off.

Will spray down with soapy water again, but doubt I’ll find anything given how meticulous I was last time. This will be by third tank of c02. Idk what else to do.

 

[camonick]

You still have a significant leak somewhere. Do you have a large enough container to fill with water and submerge entire components? ie, complete kegs, gas tank with regulator, etc.

Edit: I forgot you’re dealing with 1/4 barrel kegs. Cornelius kegs are much easier to submerge.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

An hour is not long enough for a test. Open the tank, charge the regulator, then close the tank the valve to the keg. Wait a day or two. If the regulator loses pressure you've narrowed it down at least.

 

[Mdean4421]

Well I found one leak tonight. Can't believe another failed part. The coupler to the keg where the PRV is is leaking. I snapped it back and forth a few times to try and get it to seat right. Still leaked. This was the same issue on the regulator and they had to send me a new regulator. I suppose I will have to get a new coupler piece.

Also, sprayed every where again no other leaks. Turned tank on, cut shut off valves to kegs off, marked exact spot of air in tank. Will check in morning to see if any leaks at regulator. Then plan to cut the 1 keg line that has the coupler that is not leaking on to have one keg going. I'll do the same test. Mark exact line of air check 12 hrs later and see if it moved.

Thank yall for help. Hopefully I solve here soon. Enough forum posting and video watching. Time to drink beer

 

[camonick]

Well I found one leak tonight. Can't believe another failed part. The coupler to the keg where the PRV is is leaking. I snapped it back and forth a few times to try and get it to seat right. Still leaked. This was the same issue on the regulator and they had to send me a new regulator. I suppose I will have to get a new coupler piece.

Also, sprayed every where again no other leaks. Turned tank on, cut shut off valves to kegs off, marked exact spot of air in tank. Will check in morning to see if any leaks at regulator. Then plan to cut the 1 keg line that has the coupler that is not leaking on to have one keg going. I'll do the same test. Mark exact line of air check 12 hrs later and see if it moved.

Thank yall for help. Hopefully I solve here soon. Enough forum posting and video watching. Time to drink beer

Well… a leak is a leak. Hopefully that’s the last one. If it’s a new component, maybe you can get it replaced. If not, they’re about $6-10 each depending on supplier.