Another "help me with my basement Brewery" thread

[phyllobeddo]

I still go back to "where is the main panel" because at 70' for the run from the sub panel it is hard to imagine you gaining much by coming from a sub panel instead of the main load center.

The main panel is upstairs, and not extremely far from the sub panel in the basement. I haven't looked at where power comes into the sub panel from.

I talked it over with the electrician and he seems to understand what I need/want. He is pricing a roll of 10 gauge wire, and hasn't done any work on this project yet. I'm hoping he can make one more trip to finish the main project and start and finish this one at the same time on the same day.

 

[phyllobeddo]

I finally got a quote yesterday from the electrician for the job, $435. I don't have the money for that right now, so I told him I'd have to wait. The quote was for installing two 110s (1 GFCI), and a 220 (30amp GFCI). One of the 110s would be installed close to the sub panel, and the other 110 and the 220 are approximately 75 feet from the sub panel. He priced it using 10 gauge wire.

I need to price all this on my own and see what I come up with and get a couple of different quotes.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

I finally got a quote yesterday from the electrician for the job, $435. I don't have the money for that right now, so I told him I'd have to wait. The quote was for installing two 110s (1 GFCI), and a 220 (30amp GFCI). One of the 110s would be installed close to the sub panel, and the other 110 and the 220 are approximately 75 feet from the sub panel. He priced it using 10 gauge wire.

I need to price all this on my own and see what I come up with and get a couple of different quotes.

FYI, that seems very reasonable if it includes everything.

 

[86turbodsl]

I am 90% sure the NEC forbids sub panels in series...<snip>

Not true. You can run a sub panel off a subpanel. I've done it. And passed inspection.

 

[phyllobeddo]

FYI, that seems very reasonable if it includes everything.

It does seem reasonable after looking up a few prices online.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Not true. You can run a sub panel off a subpanel. I've done it. And passed inspection.

Yeah, that was why I put it at 90%. Do not remember reading the specific code that forbade it, but I thought the bonding requirements made it "frowned upon".

FYI, just because you pass inspect does not mean it meets the letter of the NEC code book. The number of variable or immense from what edition of the code is adopted locally, is it adopted in whole or in part, how knowledgeable the inspector is and is is specifically addressed. Finally, the inspector interpretation of the code comes into play as well.

 

[phyllobeddo]

I guess I could go this route......

10/3 Romex - $98
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cerrowire-100-ft-10-3-NM-B-Wire-147-1803CR/202206569

12/2 Romex - $44
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cerrowire-100-ft-12-2-NM-W-G-Cable-Yellow-147-1602CR/202942419

50A Spa Panel $70
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Midwest-...MW250P/100686230?keyword=50+amp+spa+gfi+panel

30A breaker $9
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-30-Amp-Two-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-HOM230CP/202353325

Receptacle $6
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cooper-W...le-with-Side-Wiring-White-1876W-BOX/203492426

Receptacle $15
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...I-Duplex-Outlet-White-R02-N7899-0KW/203427638

$242


or this route.....


10/3 Romex - $98
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cerrowire-100-ft-10-3-NM-B-Wire-147-1803CR/202206569

12/2 Romex - $44
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cerrowire-100-ft-12-2-NM-W-G-Cable-Yellow-147-1602CR/202942419

30A GFCI Breaker - $77
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Murray-30-Amp-5-in-Double-Pole-GFCI-Circuit-Breaker-MP230GFP/202315509

Receptacle $6
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cooper-W...le-with-Side-Wiring-White-1876W-BOX/203492426

Receptacle $15
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...I-Duplex-Outlet-White-R02-N7899-0KW/203427638

$240

Not sure I'm comfortable installing all this, however. I may just have to save up the $435 and/or get more quotes. In the mean time, I'll be brewing with my turkey fryer and propane.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

I guess I could go this route......

10/3 Romex - $98
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cerrowire-100-ft-10-3-NM-B-Wire-147-1803CR/202206569

12/2 Romex - $44
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cerrowire-100-ft-12-2-NM-W-G-Cable-Yellow-147-1602CR/202942419

50A Spa Panel $70
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Midwest-...MW250P/100686230?keyword=50+amp+spa+gfi+panel

30A breaker $9
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-30-Amp-Two-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-HOM230CP/202353325

Receptacle $6
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cooper-W...le-with-Side-Wiring-White-1876W-BOX/203492426

Receptacle $15
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...I-Duplex-Outlet-White-R02-N7899-0KW/203427638

$242


or this route.....


10/3 Romex - $98
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cerrowire-100-ft-10-3-NM-B-Wire-147-1803CR/202206569

12/2 Romex - $44
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cerrowire-100-ft-12-2-NM-W-G-Cable-Yellow-147-1602CR/202942419

30A GFCI Breaker - $77
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Murray-30-Amp-5-in-Double-Pole-GFCI-Circuit-Breaker-MP230GFP/202315509

Receptacle $6
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cooper-W...le-with-Side-Wiring-White-1876W-BOX/203492426

Receptacle $15
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...I-Duplex-Outlet-White-R02-N7899-0KW/203427638

$240

Not sure I'm comfortable installing all this, however. I may just have to save up the $435 and/or get more quotes. In the mean time, I'll be brewing with my turkey fryer and propane.

Wire, even hooking it up to the panel, is not hard. Easily and efficiently routing wire can be depending on the construction you are running through.

 

[phyllobeddo]

Wire, even hooking it up to the panel, is not hard. Easily and efficiently routing wire can be depending on the construction you are running through.

The wire run will be in an unfinished basement. I'll just have to grab a ladder and make the run from the sub panel to the spot where the receptacle will be. I'll need a few feet of conduit for the wall run, but if I do it like the rest of the wiring down there, it'll just need to be tacked to the joists and/or run along the outer perimeter. Does that sound about right? Just run it along with the rest of the existing wiring?

 

[Onkel_Udo]

The wire run will be in an unfinished basement. I'll just have to grab a ladder and make the run from the sub panel to the spot where the receptacle will be. I'll need a few feet of conduit for the wall run, but if I do it like the rest of the wiring down there, it'll just need to be tacked to the joists and/or run along the outer perimeter. Does that sound about right? Just run it along with the rest of the existing wiring?

Sounds right. In many jurisdictions NMB cannot be run exposed and unprotected. If the existing is that way, go for it.

Simple plan is run you wire leaving twice the height of you breaker box at the top of the box
Make you terminations (outlets, switches, etc)
Knockout the most convenient holes in the box (assuming the is not a large, partially filled conduit already in place) and run the wire through a clamp and then through the knockout
If you are uncomfortable around the live box, kill the main for the next 15-20 minutes but remember the main lugs are still hot
Strip the outer sheath off the romex in the box
make 180 degree bend at the bottom of the box with the individual wires before figuring out where to cut them off to enter the breaker, neutral bus or ground bus
Strip about 1/2" of the ends of the wires
Neutral and ground go in their bus bars (often the same bar but not if this is a sub panel)...Neutrals go into GFCI breakers and the pigtail on the breaker goes to the neutral bus
Hot(s) go into the breaker(s)
Breaker (s) snap into the panel

Leaving the breakers you added off, turn back on the main power
Turn one break on at a time and use a tester to check the termination
put the cover back on the breaker box

 

[phyllobeddo]

Sounds right. In many jurisdictions NMB cannot be run exposed and unprotected. If the existing is that way, go for it.

Simple plan is run you wire leaving twice the height of you breaker box at the top of the box
Make you terminations (outlets, switches, etc)
Knockout the most convenient holes in the box (assuming the is not a large, partially filled conduit already in place) and run the wire through a clamp and then through the knockout
If you are uncomfortable around the live box, kill the main for the next 15-20 minutes but remember the main lugs are still hot
Strip the outer sheath off the romex in the box
make 180 degree bend at the bottom of the box with the individual wires before figuring out where to cut them off to enter the breaker, neutral bus or ground bus
Strip about 1/2" of the ends of the wires
Neutral and ground go in their bus bars (often the same bar but not if this is a sub panel)...Neutrals go into GFCI breakers and the pigtail on the breaker goes to the neutral bus
Hot(s) go into the breaker(s)
Breaker (s) snap into the panel

Leaving the breakers you added off, turn back on the main power
Turn one break on at a time and use a tester to check the termination
put the cover back on the breaker box

Thanks for the rundown. I'm looking into doing this myself. I plan to start small by dropping a 110 close to the sub panel. I am going to put a dehumidifier in that area of the basement. It should be a good learning experience.

 

[phyllobeddo]

In a moment of revelation, I remembered that my childhood friend is an electrician, as well as a biomedical electronic technician. I called him today and he said he would help me wire all this up. Woo Hoo! Just gotta buy the parts. One step closer....

 

[brettwasbtd]

Not sure if you did the electric yet but I'm pretty sure the avantco unit uses 12/2. That's what I have, 20a 240v. Don't need gfci on it

 

[phyllobeddo]

Not sure if you did the electric yet but I'm pretty sure the avantco unit uses 12/2. That's what I have, 20a 240v. Don't need gfci on it

Not yet. I have 250' of 12/2, though. I just need the breaker, the outlet, some conduit, and mainly time....

 

[brettwasbtd]

Not yet. I have 250' of 12/2, though. I just need the breaker, the outlet, some conduit, and mainly time....

Nice, what is this "time" you speak of? I am not familiar with it either

 

[phyllobeddo]

I've got some of the wiring in place, but not all of it. It's a very "slow go" at this point. I have so many other responsibilities.

 

[phyllobeddo]

I got all the wiring for the 220 plug and four 110 plug s installed along with the conduit, boxes, etc. My buddy came by yesterday and installed the outlets and the breakers. I ran a quick test on the Avantco 3500 with one gallon of water and it boiled in 10 minutes or so! I've got some rearranging to do with tables, etc. I bought a utility sink, but haven't got the plumbing run for it yet. No big hurry there. I think I'll be happy being able to brew inside using electricity.

 

[Kampenken]

I bought a utility sink, but haven't got the plumbing run for it yet. No big hurry there. I think I'll be happy being able to brew inside using electricity.

I just saw your thread, and how old it was!, but then this so not sure if you've got your plumbing figured out yet, but if you haven't I have one word: PEX.

I just replaced all my basement plumbing yesterday, in 8 hrs. I removed copper and galvanized steel. I lucked out that all risers out of basement were copper. Shark bites are your friend! I used the cinch clamps (read up a lot on them). At least 1/2 if not more of the effort was on removal of old pipes and cutting copper with a mini cutter in tight places. The whole job, with ~$80 in tools, cost about $325- with 4 valves, one to hook up dishwasher, 1 to hook up fridge, other 2 shut off one half the house (I still have a main, and 2 valves on one side of the house in good shape). Whole thing looks neat, and I really like the red & blue pipe! This stuff is used in many new homes, including multi-million dollar homes (lots of advantages, like home runs to outlets).

So my point is this is cheap, easy and quality product- see if you can borrow or find the tools, that's the worst part of the expense!

 

[phyllobeddo]

I just saw your thread, and how old it was!, but then this so not sure if you've got your plumbing figured out yet, but if you haven't I have one word: PEX.

I just replaced all my basement plumbing yesterday, in 8 hrs. I removed copper and galvanized steel. I lucked out that all risers out of basement were copper. Shark bites are your friend! I used the cinch clamps (read up a lot on them). At least 1/2 if not more of the effort was on removal of old pipes and cutting copper with a mini cutter in tight places. The whole job, with ~$80 in tools, cost about $325- with 4 valves, one to hook up dishwasher, 1 to hook up fridge, other 2 shut off one half the house (I still have a main, and 2 valves on one side of the house in good shape). Whole thing looks neat, and I really like the red & blue pipe! This stuff is used in many new homes, including multi-million dollar homes (lots of advantages, like home runs to outlets).

So my point is this is cheap, easy and quality product- see if you can borrow or find the tools, that's the worst part of the expense!

Pex! Yeah, good point. That's what a guy I know that did a small plumbing job for me said would work just fine and would be cheap, maybe around $100 or so including his labor. He was just estimating, but that price sounded great. I wouldn't be replacing any of the copper, just adding new plumbing for the sink.

I still have the problem of a drain, though. I haven't got that part figured out yet. I do have all the wiring in and working, but I have yet to break it in and brew a batch. I'll get there one day!

 

[Kampenken]

Yeah the drain is another thing!
I'm lucky that I can tap into a low waste pipe. But Pex, man that stuff is easy and cheap! Good luck with the build hope you get to test it all out soon! I'm going with the Grainfather now so will be flexible (kitchen, basement, outdoors) where I brew.

 

[phyllobeddo]

Yeah the drain is another thing!
I'm lucky that I can tap into a low waste pipe. But Pex, man that stuff is easy and cheap! Good luck with the build hope you get to test it all out soon! I'm going with the Grainfather now so will be flexible (kitchen, basement, outdoors) where I brew.

I got to test it out today! My last brew day was 06.22.2015. I brewed a pale ale recipe that I came up with last year. Everything went pretty well. I hit all my numbers and efficiency was like it normally is. It was really nice not to have to tote equipment up and down the stairs. No complaining about the smell of boiling wort floating through the house either. I still need to move tables and other objects around, but nonetheless I was able to brew in my basement using electricity! The Avancto 3500 worked phenomenally! Love it. I already want to upgrade my boil kettle to a 10 or 12 gallon one so that I can brew five gallon batches. I'm limited to 2.5 gallon batches now with my 20 quart kettle.

 

[phyllobeddo]

I brewed another batch in the basement with my Avantco 3500 this morning. Brewed the Left Hand Milk Stout clone here on HBT. Great recipe, although I did make some changes due to inventory. Really, really enjoying my ghetto basement brewery.

 

[brettwasbtd]

Pics?

 

[phyllobeddo]

Pics?

Let me figure that out. I do have one from today.

 

[phyllobeddo]

Totally ghetto right now as you can see. Upgrades on the way!

 

[Kampenken]

I brewed another batch in the basement with my Avantco 3500 this morning. Brewed the Left Hand Milk Stout clone here on HBT. Great recipe, although I did make some changes due to inventory. Really, really enjoying my ghetto basement brewery.

Awesome two batches in such a short time after a 6 mos break, well deserved! I bet your glad to be back at it. Setup looks good except for that window jam!

I brewed two yesterday in the kitchen on my Grainfather. My gf and daughter both don't appreciate the wonderful smells so I need to get my basement brewery setup with a good ventilation system.

 

[phyllobeddo]

Awesome two batches in such a short time after a 6 mos break, well deserved! I bet your glad to be back at it. Setup looks good except for that window jam!

I brewed two yesterday in the kitchen on my Grainfather. My gf and daughter both don't appreciate the wonderful smells so I need to get my basement brewery setup with a good ventilation system.

The window jamb was on sale...

If feels completely awesome to get back in the saddle after six months off! You hit the nail on the head. I've done 25 All Grain / BIAB batches now and I've gotten to know the process fairly well. Having all this set up in the basement makes it much easier now that I don't have to go through a setup and tear down phase. Work continues on improving the process and in turn improving the beer.

I considered brewing again tomorrow, but all three of my good 3 gallon Better Bottles are full right now. Plus my fermentation chamber is full with two of the bottles. I have another 3 gallon bottle, but it's infected. Can't use it.

Besides moving stuff around in the basement to make it look and act like a brewery, I want to upgrade to a larger pot that works with the Avantco. I will be happy to have one with a valve so I don't have to pick it up and dump it! The ventilation solution will have to do for now. Seems to work OK. There is a dehumidifier in the basement that helps with the moisture. I have no plans to cut a hole in the wall and install a ventilation system. Before I do that, I will get a drain put in and install a sink. Main thing right now is to move furniture around and get it set up better.

Cheers!

 

[phyllobeddo]

Pics?

I had almost forgotten about looking at your thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=518033

I totally dig that stand! It will look and work a lot better than my Black and Decker Workmate 200. I gotta build one!

 

[Kampenken]

Yeah I'd avoid cutting holes. I plan to brew by my door out of the basement (when cold / bad weather, otherwise just outside basement), 5 steps up from basement floor, full size door- not a bilco. I installed a doggie door there, so with my setup I plan to build a hood that can drop down over top of the full boil with possible a flexible pipe venting out the doggie door. Just remove when done and store away. I bet you could do something similar out your window if you wish to avoid the dehumidifier. 60 min boil in the kitchen creates a lot of steam!

 

[phyllobeddo]

My wife and I were able to move some stuff around today. Made a bit of progress.