Another craft brewery bites the dust...

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Yikes, I'm not sure what their distribution is in other parts of the country but they are huge in the PacNW. Surprised to see them go that route.
 
"I keep trying to sell out but no-one is buying"
- Al Jourgensen

I'm happy for them. They get to retire and enjoy the rest their life in style. The companies I know of that have been bought out by AB/ Inbev have been bought for an absolute fortune. If they really want to I'm sure they could open another brewery.
 
Kate00 said:
"I keep trying to sell out but no-one is buying"
- Al Jourgensen

I'm happy for them. They get to retire and enjoy the rest their life in style. The companies I know of that have been bought out by AB/ Inbev have been bought for an absolute fortune. If they really want to I'm sure they could open another brewery.
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They can't. They would have had to sign a non compete for the acquisition to go through. So they won't be able to do anything for a few years at best. The employees will be the ones to suffer in all this. Moral will decline as corporate ethics take over. The very essence of what a craft brewery is about will be sucked dry in efforts to maintain maximum profit.

Distribution will widen, so more people can consume the beer, but I'm sure the obsession of profit will drive the quality down as processes and ingredients change.

It sucks they bought out a few great NW breweries... 10 barrel was another one.
 
Wonder if they will still make Loser?

LoserLabel.jpeg
 
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Maybe I'm a corporate tool, but I haven't seen life sucked out or quality suffer at Goose Island or Widmer. And listening to Mitch Steele in interviews or reading his blog, I never sense any ill sentiment towards AB/InBev. The Goose Island sale also enabled Virtue Cider to be founded by Greg Hall, which I love.

Evidence of the impending doom, please.
 
Quaker said:
Maybe I'm a corporate tool, but I haven't seen life sucked out or quality suffer at Goose Island or Widmer. And listening to Mitch Steele in interviews or reading his blog, I never sense any ill sentiment towards AB/InBev. The Goose Island sale also enabled Virtue Cider to be founded by Greg Hall, which I love.

Evidence of the impending doom, please.
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Can't speak to GI, but I can certainly say that Widmer beers suck! (Then again, maybe they sucked before the buy out :p)
 
Quaker said:
Evidence of the impending doom, please.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of reasons it's a bad thing for the large corporations to buy out the small guys. If you don't think quality suffers and you prefer to support the large businesses vs the home town one, go for it. But here are a couple articles that point out a lot of good points on how it's not a good thing they're starting to dominate the "craft" industry.

http://newschoolbeer.com/2014/11/anheuser-buschs-purchase-10-barrel-can-ruin-industry.html

http://business.time.com/2013/08/13/that-craft-beer-youre-drinking-isnt-craft-beer-do-you-care/

And there are plenty more if you Google search

15+/- years ago, how hard would it have been for a guy to get shelf space for his "bud light" beers? It took a new approach of beer... It took the "craft beer" industry. In fact, that "innovation" took off so well it made the big guys take a second look. They realized people actually want flavor in their beer. So they e strategize their business model. So what's their goal? Total domination of the "craft" industry.

Once these large corporations buy out all the decent "craft" breweries, it will become virtually impossible for the small guys to gain shelf space... then what will hold them to their "standards"? I'm for one glad I have a brewery at home, so I don't have to support their company and I can boycott the beer labels they own. No loss to me.

It won't affect me one bit walking into a grocery store and seeing my only options for beer are "bud light" or "bud craft." Keep your support up!
 
I don't buy beer from the store much anymore, but I do frequently visit local brewpubs to enjoy a pint, good food, and the atmosphere (here's looking at you, Hoppin' Frog). @Silentdrinker 's first article had a good quote that echoes my sentiment:

"Most of them are turning their backs on 10 Barrel not because they fear for the brand’s quality, but because they don’t want to fuel mega conglomerations that are increasingly controlling the world."

I wouldn't hesitate to change my support to another local brewery in-lieu of my favorite establishment if that brewery sold out to an international corporation. I don't want my dollars to line the pockets of suits in a board room; I would rather have that cash go to the local guy who is trying to build his business and support his family while doing something he/she loves.
 
I never said I'm a supporter of them, and I'll always opt for the more local non-franchise restaurant for example. I'm just expressing my opinion that it's a bit of fear mongering to assume such an acquisition is the worst thing to happen to a brewery operation. It might result in improved benefits packages available to the workers, broader opportunities in their careers, and an infusion of resources to improve their process controls and product quality. But that's just as hard to definitively state as the opposite with dropping morale and quality without direct involvement in the situation.

Now whether or not this is good for the craft beer market or consumer, that's a completely different discussion than the earlier argument.


I'm forgetting there's a reason I steer clear of the Debate Forum. Apologies for turning this into one.
 
Quaker said:
I never said I'm a supporter of them, and I'll always opt for the more local non-franchise restaurant for example. I'm just expressing my opinion that it's a bit of fear mongering to assume such an acquisition is the worst thing to happen to a brewery operation. It might result in improved benefits packages available to the workers, broader opportunities in their careers, and an infusion of resources to improve their process controls and product quality. But that's just as hard to definitively state as the opposite with dropping morale and quality without direct involvement in the situation.

Now whether or not this is good for the craft beer market or consumer, that's a completely different discussion than the earlier argument.


I'm forgetting there's a reason I steer clear of the Debate Forum. Apologies for turning this into one.
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There's no debate. i understand the role of a Devils advocate, but if you think AB has the employees, or even customers, best interest at hand? You think half of the employees would have applied to work for this corporation vs the locally owned establishment they did sign up for?

If you think corporations like InBev has anybody but their investors interest in mind, you should check this article out: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/18/walmart_n_4466850.html

It's not a win for anyone but their investors.
 
I'm happy for them, that is why all of us start our own businesses. On the other hand From a consumer point and small business owner, large corps like them can and do do a lot of damage to small business. It is easy for a corp of this size to manipulate the market prices anything that they use in the business. They will also be able to manipulate prices at pubs especially if they are able to get more than one in an area. (4 in this case) Just consider them the walmart of beer.

On another note, non compete clauses are often unenforceable. It basically goes against the basic principles of the our free market economy. At one time they were entirely unenforceable but now as big corps get better at stomping out competition and buy more politicians the laws are changing to benefit the guys with the bucks, in this case a foreign company.
 
As disappointed as I am, to be honest (much like 10 barrel) this is the death of Elysian, at least in the Pacific NW. There's literally 100+ other breweries in the Puget Sound for people to go to and generally speaking Oregon and Washington are heavily pro-craft brewery and anti-BMC. The worst thing about both of these guys selling out isn't that they sold out, it's that they aren't being honest about it. Elysian built their brand, in part, on being anti-corporate and then they sold out to the biggest corporation of them all; they then have the gall to try and say it wasn't about money at all, and that's bull****. I love some of their beers, but you know what? There are so many other options I'll never run out of beer to try in Seattle, RIP Elysian.
 
I think for most of us.... its not wanting to support a company that has bullied vendors, distributors and whoever else they can to gain an advantage..

Plus the fact they ultimately are more worried about profits for their shareholders than anything else.

With eyes on them, I don't think InBev will change much about the craft brands they purchase... for now.... but if they could get away with it.. they'd cut corners and purchase cheaper ingredients in a heart beat...


I'll simply keep supporting the guys I know who are independent... if they get bought by InBev.. I'll find others..

Though it seems it might start getting harder to know who InBev owns if they keep it up.. which I'm sure they will. Spending 30-50 million on a brand/brewery is nothing to them.
 
I don't blame the owners at all, they went into business to make money and in that sense good for them.

BMC are mega corporations, out to make as much money as they can. They do that by selling very popular products- not by cheapening products and losing share (look at McDonald's).

But I try to be a "locavore" support family and small business, local beer, local farming, etc. to whatever reasonable degree you can.

It would be wonderful if all mega breweries lost broad distribution because locals and nanos dominated this industry. But I doubt it'll ever happen.
 
This disappoints me - same as 10 Barrel. Both make great beers, but I now have little interest in either. I don't know why, but selling out really turns me away from them. But, like others above have said, there's plenty more out there to choose from so I'll be moving on. RIP Spacedust IPA, you were tremendous.
 
I sort of understand why 10 barrel sold. They lost so much money on their recall for bottle bombs with their 'swill' that they were hurting pretty bad. Elysian, I don't know why other than the offer was too good.

It's my understanding that Dick Cantwell was the only one apposed to selling to InBev, but he lost to the majority vote.
 
Silentdrinker said:
There's no debate. i understand the role of a Devils advocate, but if you think AB has the employees, or even customers, best interest at hand? You think half of the employees would have applied to work for this corporation vs the locally owned establishment they did sign up for?

If you think corporations like InBev has anybody but their investors interest in mind, you should check this article out: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/18/walmart_n_4466850.html

It's not a win for anyone but their investors.
Click to expand...

LOL. Right.

Then you should have no problem opening a brewery and taking all their customers.
 
Quaker said:
Maybe I'm a corporate tool, but I haven't seen life sucked out or quality suffer at Goose Island or Widmer.

Evidence of the impending doom, please.
Click to expand...

I was scared bad things would happen when Sleeman bought Unibroue. False alarm as Unibroue is still making some of the best beer on this side of the world.
 
I'm all about making money, buy it just goes against the grain! Yes, you open a business to make money, but with this industry, there is a lot of people that love it for the local, craft beer atmosphere. I don't want brew pubs to become Applebee's... Just sayin
 
There are two ways you can look at the aquisition. The first is that Elysian is a bunch of sell outs even IF the beer continues to be great. The second way never gets mentioned. That by buying stock in Elysian via AB is about the only way most craft beer drinkers will ever directly benefit from the craft beer movement.
 
Clonefan94 said:
My problem with this one, is their obvious anti-corporate scheme they had going on. I don't normally call people sell outs for taking the money, but in this case, it's tough to not call them a sell out when it seems they built a brand on not being that.
Click to expand...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEKbFMvkLIc[/ame]

That said, I have no issue with the buyout per se. And just because a business becomes corporate doesn't mean it's bad. Having a profit-minded business model to satisfy investors doesn't mean you're screwing over the customer or the employees. You still have to sell a good product to make the profit and find efficient ways of selling the good product. And just because you're not corporate, doesn't mean you don't have investors you have to show growth in some form to produce a return on the investment.
 
Capitalism is awesome! These guys busted their butt for years hoping they would build their brand to the point that a big corporation would see them as a threat, or simply a good investment. Congratulations to them!
If you got fooled by them playing your emotional side by selling you on the fallacy that they were anti business (or anti big corporation), then you just drank their cool aid too.
No matter what they said, it ALL about the money. That's what business is.
I hope they enjoy their better, less stressful lives.
 
I like beer and I like breweries .. big or small :) My nephew makes a very good living at AB and does so even after the In-Bev merger. They want to make good beer that people will like and buy - and yes, they want to make money. No harm in that.

If I am going to get my shorts in a twist it will be with beer whoresalers and the guarantees they have based on the three tier system that some rich guys bought post prohibition. There is enormous political and economic influence wielded by these cronyists, and they determine what the shelf space will look like and how the legislators will bless or punish independent brewers.
 
seigex said:
You still have to sell a good product to make the profit.
Click to expand...

I hardly consider bud light a good product. But ok... I think another approach of profiting is to dominate the market and massive advertising. Look at Dr. Dre beats. They're garbage headphones with the most elaborate advertising. So no, it isn't about a good product. Some would argue beer has 5 main ingredients."water, malt, hops, yeast and advertising." Don't believe me? Watch the super bowl in feb.

Here's a story (happened last year) on the opposite side of all this: http://www.commonsbrewery.com/blog/ (second blog post)

They're another NW brewery here in PDX. Found out InBev bought out the distributor they were using, so they got out to go back to self distribution. He felt inbev's business model was different to his.
 
Why would anyone turn down a profit. It's a business! If I could create a business, bust my butt to make it successful, then sell it for enough profit to retire... Count me in. We are home brewers, these are businesses. They have a life and families to consider. Who are we to judge them for making a business decision.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
 
Silentdrinker said:
Here's a story (happened last year) on the opposite side of all this: http://www.commonsbrewery.com/blog/ (second blog post)

They're another NW brewery here in PDX. Found out InBev bought out the distributor they were using, so they got out to go back to self distribution. He felt inbev's business model was different to his.
Click to expand...

Glad you posted this Silent -

It points to another critical point of this crazy beer distribution game that becomes vital to small, independent brewers. Each state writes their own rules as it relates to the 3 Tier System but still within the 3 Tier System. ABI is allowed to own a distributor in OR, but not in some other states. The lobbyists for the beer whoresalers in FL and GA use this to strike fear into the hearts of their membership and the politicians they own. They contend that ALL self distribution is bad because ABI (those evil Belgians) is trying to set up self distribution nationwide (cutting out the wholesalers) .. so they lobby to keep a current broken system for fear of what a new system might yield. Money in campaign chests rules, but fear marches alongside.
 
Silentdrinker said:
I hardly consider bud light a good product. But ok... I think another approach of profiting is to dominate the market and massive advertising. Look at Dr. Dre beats. They're garbage headphones with the most elaborate advertising. So no, it isn't about a good product. Some would argue beer has 5 main ingredients."water, malt, hops, yeast and advertising." Don't believe me? Watch the super bowl in feb.
Click to expand...

Whether you, or I, personally think bud light, or Beats, are good products is inconsequential in the market. There are millions who believe it is, whether it be by marketing, or for some odd reason, they just like the product. Opinions are just that, opinions. It's a businessman's job to make a fool part with his money, whether a corporate business, or a privately held company. I know many non-corporate breweries whose beer I can't stand, yet they have customers.

Silentdrinker said:
Here's a story (happened last year) on the opposite side of all this: http://www.commonsbrewery.com/blog/ (second blog post)
Click to expand...

They're another NW brewery here in PDX. Found out InBev bought out the distributor they were using, so they got out to go back to self distribution. He felt inbev's business model was different to his.[/QUOTE]

This is how business works. InBev bought the distributor because either the distributor couldn't make it in today's market, or they wanted to make a return on their investment and cash out. Brewery doesn't like their business model, so they decide to do it on their own. If ABInBev wants their business back, they have to introduce the model, or some other way to attract them back. The Commons Brewery now gets to distribute based on the model they want, and can pitch that model to other breweries, take on new customers, and grow until they are bought out by ABInBev and get to cash out as well. Sounds like how things are suppose to work to me, and definitely doesn't make ABI evil by any means.
 
seigex said:
Whether you, or I, personally think bud light, or Beats, are good products is inconsequential in the market. There are millions who believe it is, whether it be by marketing, or for some odd reason, they just like the product. Opinions are just that, opinions. It's a businessman's job to make a fool part with his money, whether a corporate business, or a privately held company. I know many non-corporate breweries whose beer I can't stand, yet they have customers.

They're another NW brewery here in PDX. Found out InBev bought out the distributor they were using, so they got out to go back to self distribution. He felt inbev's business model was different to his.

This is how business works. InBev bought the distributor because either the distributor couldn't make it in today's market, or they wanted to make a return on their investment and cash out. Brewery doesn't like their business model, so they decide to do it on their own. If ABInBev wants their business back, they have to introduce the model, or some other way to attract them back. The Commons Brewery now gets to distribute based on the model they want, and can pitch that model to other breweries, take on new customers, and grow until they are bought out by ABInBev and get to cash out as well. Sounds like how things are suppose to work to me, and definitely doesn't make ABI evil by any means.
Click to expand...

Lol, keep on supporting them then, homie! That's your right... Turn a blind eye because, "it's businss."

Keep buying their beer. All you're doing is sending your American dollars to another country. Before you were supporting a local business where that money stayed in the community. Now, it goes into the pockets of the 10% who own 90% of the worlds money. Those same people who lobby to keep the poor man down to profit. Again, it's businss!

While you're at it, Keep buying those products in China that utilize slave labor and support that industry. You're an American, it doesn't affect you. i mean it is simply all about profits because it's simply business. How could there be any down side to it. Turn a blind eye, you'll never be affected... It's not like Walmart who profited over $17billion made YOU as a tax payer she'll out $3billion to support their under paid staff members. (Reference link on post #12)

We all get it. Everyone who is in support of corporate take over keeps referencing, "it's business. That's how it works." Businesses need profits to stay alive. We understand. That's NOT the issue, so everyone who keeps pointing this out can stop.

But, once InBev gets enough power to lobby against the production of homebrew, and they tighten regulations for small breweries to make it damn near impossible for them to exist, you will be the loudest of them all to stop that $h|t.
 
Silentdrinker said:
They can't. They would have had to sign a non compete for the acquisition to go through. So they won't be able to do anything for a few years at best. The employees will be the ones to suffer in all this. Moral will decline as corporate ethics take over. The very essence of what a craft brewery is about will be sucked dry in efforts to maintain maximum profit.
Click to expand...

Since you can see the future, can you please tell me how my job interview is going to go next week? Thanks!
 
I thought they already owned Elysium or had a significant investment. Having spent a fair numbers of evenings at the brewpub in Seattle when I used to travel there on business, I hope they don't muck it up. The food and beer was very good.

On a side note, I went to Hardly Strictly in SF last fall and was amazed at the predominance of craft beer that was packed in. There was a bit of BMC, but 80+% was craft. The market is, indeed, changing.
 
"Keep buying their beer. All you're doing is sending your American dollars to another country."

US dollars always come back to the US because you need US dollars to buy products from the US. So US dollars don't go overseas and stay there unless someone is stuffing it in their mattress.

"Before you were supporting a local business where that money stayed in the community."

Complete BS. Your local brewery is not getting all its supplies locally. They are sourcing ingredients from around the world.

"While you're at it, Keep buying those products in China that utilize slave labor and support that industry."

You make sure keep posting on this message board from your computer/phone/tablet that was made completely in the US and sourced from all US materials.


"But, once InBev gets enough power to lobby against the production of homebrew, and they tighten regulations for small breweries to make it damn near impossible for them to exist, you will be the loudest of them all to stop that $h|t."

Red herring much?
 
"Keep buying their beer. All you're doing is sending your American dollars to another country."

US dollars always come back to the US because you need US dollars to buy products from the US. So US dollars don't go overseas and stay there unless someone is stuffing it in their mattress.

"Before you were supporting a local business where that money stayed in the community."

Complete BS. Your local brewery is not getting all its supplies locally. They are sourcing ingredients from around the world.

"While you're at it, Keep buying those products in China that utilize slave labor and support that industry."

You make sure keep posting on this message board from your computer/phone/tablet that was made completely in the US and sourced from all US materials.


"But, once InBev gets enough power to lobby against the production of homebrew, and they tighten regulations for small breweries to make it damn near impossible for them to exist, you will be the loudest of them all to stop that $h|t."

Red herring much?
 

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