Announcing 'Mash Made Easy', a mash pH adjustment assistant

[Silver_Is_Money]

Just as for all minerals, I add baking soda to the mash water and dissolve it fully therein well before heating the water and doughing in.

That said, I once sprinkled a small amount of baking soda across the surface of an active mash and then rapidly stirred it in, and I did not notice anything resembling a volcano gusher. In fact, I didn't notice anything of the sort. But my pH at the time of the addition was only 5.26, and not 5.0. And I did not toss it in at only one location. In the end my sprinkle only moved the mash to pH 5.32, as it was just a pinch.

I don't have a modern phone (mine is an older flip-phone) so I never intended MME for use on a phone. I can't help you with that one.

 

[Big Monk]

The version 4.30 upper limit for Sauermalz (Acid Malt) strength has been bumped up to 4%. 5% seems to be truly unusual, but I will consider expanding this range even more in a future release.

It only seems unusual if you take to heart the ROT about 1%/0.1 pH.

Sauermalz does not behave like Lactic acid. It varies not only with whatever pilsner malt it was made but also the acid characteristics of the Sauergut that is sprayed on it. You can’t directly coordinate its equivalent weight as Lactic with its acidity without fudging the numbers in many instances until they seem improbable.

I consider my unique in that I’ve always used Sauermalz to acidify in every single all grain batch I’ve ever made.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

It only seems unusual if you take to heart the ROT about 1%/0.1 pH.

In 'Mash Made Easy' version 4.30, the default strength of 2.40% corresponds closely with Weyermann's advice that 1% Acid Malt (by weight of the grist) moves the mash pH downward by 0.1 pH points.

 

[Big Monk]

In 'Mash Made Easy' version 4.30, the default strength of 2.40% corresponds closely with Weyermann's advice that 1% Acid Malt (by weight of the grist) moves the mash pH downward by 0.1 pH points.

Analytically? Yes.

Empirically? No. That correlation is the exception rather than the rule in the real world.

I’ve set weight based Sauermalz calcs using equivalent Lactic Acid percentage to greater than 6% on some lots of Sauermalz to match calculations vs. real world data in my batches.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I'll have to monitor this closely going forward, but my current stock of acid malt is from Swaen, and not from Weyermann.

 

[Droot]

Thank you, I am in the right track. I will add the baking soda to the water before heating.

David

 

[Big Monk]

I'll have to monitor this closely going forward, but my current stock of acid malt is from Swaen, and not from Weyermann.

Shouldn’t make a lick of difference who makes it.

The major point is that if Sauermalz calcs using Lactic Acid % are being implemented or considered, and are considered by the user and developer as a necessary evil, then the most flexibility possible should be granted to the user.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Shouldn’t make a lick of difference who makes it.

The major point is that if Sauermalz calcs using Lactic Acid % are being implemented or considered, and are considered by the user and developer as a necessary evil, then the most flexibility possible should be granted to the user.

Understood, and I fully agree. When v_4.40 comes out it will offer the end user the choice of selecting 5%, as opposed to the current 4% maximum acid malt strength as seen in version 4.30.

As a bonus related to looking into this, I just noticed a typo in my original post of version 4.30, wherein I rather quite embarrassingly spelled 'Kolbach' as 'Kolback' in error. I just fixed this typo and all future downloads of 4.30 from my website will have the correct spelling.

 

[Big Monk]

Understood, and I fully agree. When v_4.40 comes out it will offer the end user the choice of selecting 5%, as opposed to the current 4% maximum acid malt strength as seen in version 4.30.

As a bonus related to looking into this, I just noticed a typo in my original post of version 4.30, wherein I rather quite embarrassingly spelled 'Kolbach' as 'Kolback' in error. I just fixed this typo and all future downloads of 4.30 from my website will have the correct spelling.

If it were me, I’d make it a free form entry. Like I said, my current lot needs to be entered as 5.6% to match reality.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

If it were me, I’d make it a free form entry. Like I said, my current lot needs to be entered as 5.6% to match reality.

You've talked me into 6%. Completely "free form" entry can lead to huge errors if the end user does not fully understand.

But if Weyermann is to be believed, 2.4% should be their own target norm. It's almost as if they have little wherewithal by which to control this in their process. It's likely better to just use Lactic Acid if that is the case.

 

[Big Monk]

You've talked me into 6%. Completely "free form" entry can lead to huge errors if the end user does not fully understand.

Right, but ultimately the goal IS to help people understand what they might otherwise not fully comprehend. That's kind of what we are doing by constantly posting in the Brewing Science forum.

But if Weyermann is to be believed, 2.4% should be their own target norm. It's almost as if they have little wherewithal by which to control this in their process. It's likely better to just use Lactic Acid if that is the case.

It's not whether Weyermann should be believed or not, as they are 100% a credible source, but rather that we are aware of the variables in the process that can change what we see batch to batch.

Error Source #1: Sauermalz isn't Lactic Acid. A.J. has shown the graph a number of times that shows the curves for Lactic and for Sauermalz and they are not even close.

Error Source #2: There are a number of similar but slightly different calculations for weight based Sauermalz pH prediction using Lactic Acid % as an input.

Error Source #3: Since Sauermalz is a malt, it's properties are affected by the specific pilsner malt lot used as it's base.

Error Source #4: The specifications and Acid % of the Sauergut used in making the Sauermalz can vary as well.

Even Weyermann (and for that matter anyone making Sauermalz) concedes that there is likely to be variation from the standard 1%/0.1 pH ROT.

I can say that much of this futzing around with Acid % numbers has been avoided on the last few batches I've made using the Gen. II engine and Sauermalz as a malt, with full titration info.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

Having never used Acid malt to lower pH and choosing to use Lactic acid instead. Am I missing out on any other benefits using Acid malt would add?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

From Weyermann:

Sensory studies show that acidulated beers receive higher sensory ratings and consumer acceptance than do non-acidulated beers.

Biologically (naturally) produced lactic acid results in better flavor stability in the finished beer than does artificially produced lactic acid.

Importantly, Acidulated Malt NEVER imparts “sour,” acidic notes to the finished beer, as long as its portion of the grain remains below 10%!

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

From Weyermann:

@Silver_Is_Money thank you. This coming weekend I will be using Acid malt instead of Lactic acid in a Kolsch recipe I've brewed several times already.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

@Silver_Is_Money thank you. This coming weekend I will be using Acid malt instead of Lactic acid in a Kolsch recipe I've brewed several times already.

Will you be going by the Weyermann guideline that 1% drops mash pH by 0.1 point?

Be sure to tell us how it turns out with this change.

 

[Big Monk]

@Silver_Is_Money thank you. This coming weekend I will be using Acid malt instead of Lactic acid in a Kolsch recipe I've brewed several times already.

If you don't mind, can you run it through the "Brewing Engine Lite" sheet I just posted in my other thread?

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

If you don't mind, can you run it through the "Brewing Engine Lite" sheet I just posted in my other thread?

@RPIScotty yes of course I’ll include your GenII calculations too.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

@RPIScotty I just found out my LHBS only carries 'meussdoerffer sour malt' listed under acid malts. I'm not at all familiar with this malt or using any type of acid malts for that matter. Any insight would be much appreciated.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

@RPIScotty I just found out my LHBS only carries 'meussdoerffer sour malt' listed under acid malts. I'm not at all familiar with this malt or using any type of acid malts for that matter. Any insight would be much appreciated.

I'm not RPIScotty, but all you have to go with (until you discover differently) is Weyermann's long standing advice that 1% by grist weight should give you ~0.1 points of downward pH shift.

RPIScotty seems to be inferring that he is getting twice or more the anticipated downward pH shift with his particular lot of Weyermann's Sauermalz.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I'm not RPIScotty, but all you have to go with (until you discover differently) is Weyermann's long standing advice that 1% by grist weight should give you ~0.1 points of downward pH shift.

Larry my question is 'meussdoerffer sour malt' interchangable with 'acidulated' or 'acid' malt?

The specs say "Produced with natural lactic acid bacteria. Used to adjust mash PH and for sour beers. AKA Acidulated" so I guess it is?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Remember that acid malt requires saccharification, so it is best to grind and add it right along with the rest of the grist.

It is the same stuff, but no one knows if different manufacturers are shooting for the same general acidity level as for Weyermann. You must initially presume that they do. A quick test batch might help here. Make up one base malt mash with 50 grams of Pilsner base malt and 100-150 mL of DI water, and another with 48 grams of the same Pilsner base malt, 2 grams of your acid malt, and the same water. Mash, cool, and compare pH's. That will indicate how much pH suppression 4% by weight will bring with it. You should see about 5.8 pH and 5.4 pH respectively.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

Remember that acid malt requires saccharification, so it is best to grind and add it right along with the rest of the grist.

It is the same stuff, but no one knows if different manufacturers are shooting for the same general acidity level as for Weyermann. You must initially presume that they do. A quick test batch might help here. Make up one base malt mash with 50 grams of Pilsner base malt and 100-150 mL of DI water, and another with 48 grams of the same Pilsner base malt, 2 grams of your acid malt, and the same water. Mash, cool, and compare pH's. That will indicate how much pH suppression 4% by weight will bring with it.

Ok thank you. I'm brewing a 10-gallon batch of Kolsch this weekend and may need to hold off on using acid malt until I get more information.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Ok thank you. I'm brewing a 10-gallon batch of Kolsch this weekend and may need to hold off on using acid malt until I get more information.

Without test mashing, where would you expect to find more information? Even if it doubles the pH depression, you should still be OK. Or cut the calculated amount in half. But since pH is logarithmic, you are at this juncture ballparking it by assuming linearity where none is to be found.

 

[Big Monk]

Ok thank you. I'm brewing a 10-gallon batch of Kolsch this weekend and may need to hold off on using acid malt until I get more information.

Prior to committing to the Gen. II approach, I was using weight based Sauermalz calcs and using Acid % (Lactic Acid by weight) for Sauermalz. Similar to what Larry and many others before had done.

What I would do is buy a 2 lbs of base malt. I would run a test mash with one pound to obtain the DI pH for the base malt. Id buy a quantity of Sauermalz that would last me a while and make sure it was from the same bag at the LHBS.

I’d run the test mash parameters through my spreadsheet using the other pound of base malt and a specific weight of Sauermalz and assume an acid % for the Sauermalz. I’d take that pH prediction and compare to the actual for the test mash. I would then adjust the acid % until the pH numbers matched and use that acid % for all subsequent batches until I purchased new Sauermalz.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

Without test mashing, where would you expect to find more information? Even if it doubles the pH depression, you should still be OK. Or cut the calculated amount in half. But since pH is logarithmic, you are at this juncture ballparking it by assuming linearity where none is to be found.

No actually I meant test mashing. I picked up citric acid yesterday but tomorrow I'll be brewing but I do plan on doing a bunch of test mashes over the coming months.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Announcing 'Mash Made Easy' version 5.00 in both Standard and Metric formats. Major revisions!!!

Details:
1) Per a users request, MME now allows for the selection of your calcium chlorides percent concentration (purity) across a broad span of available purities for CaCl2 Prills (crystal), and also allows for the use of liquid calcium chloride solutions at any concentration. For liquid CaCl2 solutions you must simply measure and input your solutions specific gravity. These changes are due to the fact that crystalline CaCl2 prills pick up additional moisture every time they are exposed to air, and as such the percent concentration (purity) of such CaCl2 declines steadily as it absorbs water from the air. Moving to a liquid calcium chloride solution eliminates this nagging problem, but MME now allows for the end users accommodation of this phenomenon both for solid and liquid CaCl2.
2) Major engine change to accommodate my recent direct brewing day observation that dark recipes such as Stouts and Porters mash at noticeably lower measured pH's than the previous version of Mash Made Easy would predict.
3) Removed Acid Malt as a "drop down" selection choice for the grist. As always, it is still available as one of the 3 acid addition choices offered to bring your mash to your selected mash pH target. I will consider adding this feature back in at a later date once I learn to incorporate it properly as a drop down selection within the math model dictates of the new MME engine.

As always, Mash Made Easy is both free and complete, and it can be downloaded at the website seen below.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Announcing the release of Mash Made Easy version 5.10 in both the standard and metric formats.

1) Eliminates odd Boolean logic descriptors such as "FALSE" that mysteriously appeared for those using exclusively and specifically Excel, and the same for which I had been unaware as to these nagging and unsightly yet otherwise harmless visual issues until quite recently, since I develop this spreadsheet using LibreOffice Calc under Linux/Unix, and I do not use or have access to Excel.

2) Minor improvement made for the utilization of the "Brown / Mid Roast" classification.

As always, Mash Made Easy is both free and complete, and it can be downloaded at the website link seen below.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I would like to personally thank forum member @BeerSavesLives for testing the "visible Boolean statements" fixes (making them invisible) described in my post above in Excel before version 5.10 went public.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Announcing the release of 'Mash Made Easy' version 5.20 in both standard and metric format.

Corrects an error discovered in 'Sparge Water Acidification' output for the highly specific case of lactic acid at anything other than 88% concentration, whereby lactic acid was formerly defaulting to 88% on only the sparge water adjustment page of the spreadsheet, regardless of the actual percent concentration of lactic acid selected by the end user. Version 5.20 correctly adjusts sparge water acidification output to reflect your desired input selection for lactic acid concentration.

All users of both standard and metric MME are urged to transition to version 5.20

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Announcing the release of 'Mash Made Easy' version 5.30 in both the standard and metric formats.

Changes include:

1) Far more radically separates the DIpH values computed for Roasted Barley (plus Black Barley) and Roasted Malt, after more closely reviewing the data I have on hand from Briess. Roast Barley and Black Barley (which are not malted) now retain a fixed DIpH of 4.7 across all color levels, whereas Roasted Malt has a DIpH which changes appreciably in conjunction with roast level and Lovibond color changes. This change allows for well more acidity to be exhibited for the darkest representatives of the deep roasted malt class, while holding roasted barleys acidity at a noticeably more modest and fixed level with respect to color. To my knowledge no other software solution offers this flexibility, as the others all seem to conflate the two classes of deep roast into one, as if there is no observed acidity difference between them.

2) Given that most of the other available mash pH prediction software (with the potential exceptions of Bru'n Water and the Kaiser Water Calculator) appears to be more linear math model based, and that MME 5.20 was 100% base 10 logarithm based, MME 5.30 now lets you easily dial in an output that blends any percentage of the two radically differing approaches. The 100% log based engine within MME calculates deep roasted and high caramel/crystal containing recipe mash pH's which are noticeably lower and in line with the need for added (or inherent) mash water alkalinity, which has clearly historically been the observed and documented case for such beer recipes, whereas the 100% linear based engine within MME delivers output in line with many recent pH prediction software solutions and in violation of most all of past documented history, presuming all of it to be incorrect, and thereby exhibiting output in line with no need (or desire) for alkalinity for most all dark roast and caramel/crystal containing recipes. The ability to choose one or the other, or any percentage of blend of the two approaches, permits the end user to dial in MME to conform with end user measured and observed mash pH output, in strict keeping with MME's philosophy of easily permitting a broad range of methods whereby its output can be modified to conform to observed and measured reality.

3) Cleaned up a bit of the internal code.

I highly recommend that all current users of 'Mash Made Easy' transition to this newly updated version.