Announcing 'Mash Made Easy', a mash pH adjustment assistant

[Silver_Is_Money]

Thank you for your dedication and hard work to create something so easy for something so difficult and mystical for many brewers! You've opened a gateway for beginning all-grain brewers and all-grain brewers who never bothered with their water to gain control over their water and mineral content in an easy to understand fashion.

I've tested it out on Excel 2013 for Windows and so far, so good!

There are a few areas that may benefit from some cosmetic tweaks, but the functionality is excellent from where I stand.

Perhaps consider adding a preferences/advanced options area where defaults can be changed. For example, a user defined dilution of their Phosphoric Acid, etc.

The "Base Malt Type" drop down was a complete surprise to me, as well as the location of it. I like it, it has a lot of elegance, but could be easily overlooked by a novice.

Thanks for the great feedback! Selecting variable Phosphoric Acid % concentrations via a "preferences" page addition is on my radar screen for the next update.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Looking forward to trying this out

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Announcing the release of 'Mash Made Easy' version 1.20.

In response to your requests for the ability to variably select Phosphoric Acid concentration, 'MME' now allows the user to easily select the actual percentage concentration of their Phosphoric acid.

https://mashmadeeasy.yolasite.com/

 

[Contrarian]

This is interesting, I'm looking forward to trying it out. Thank you for putting this together.

One functional request is to have control over the concentration of lactic acid used - I use 80%.

Another minor niggle is I'd prefer to input the metric document with lovibond malt specs and have a readout in SRM. But that is really just personal preference, might be the impetus I need to move over to SRM and EBC.

 

[The_Bishop]

Any reason the sheet doesn't show magnesium and/or sodium concentrations? Or total calcium? Those are important to know, as well.

Edit: Never mind. I'm blind. It's at the top. The sodium would be nice, though. And maybe a way to accommodate Calcium Chloride solutions?

 

[jgourd]

In the spirit of openness and sharing in the homebrew community (plus we like to learn), I would suggest protecting the formulas (and other cells that you do not wish to be changed) with blank passwords. This way anyone can easily un-protect them to show the formulas used to calculate things (and re-protect them back). It is relatively simple to remove password protection nonetheless using LibreOffice (even without knowing the password), but I thought I'd suggest a slight improvement.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

The sodium would be nice, though. And maybe a way to accommodate Calcium Chloride solutions?

Sodium is listed right along with chloride and sulfate on the lower right hand side.

Calcium and Magnesium are listed separately along the top/center because they contribute to pH reduction in the mash.

Sodium, chloride, and sulfate do not contribute to mash pH reduction.

https://mashmadeeasy.yolasite.com/

 

[The_Bishop]

Doh. Don't know how I missed that. Thanks, and sorry.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

One functional request is to have control over the concentration of lactic acid used - I use 80%.

If it is common to use Lactic Acid in strengths other than 88%, then I will certainly be looking into incorporating this feature into a future version 1.30.


https://mashmadeeasy.yolasite.com/

 

[MaxStout]

Just downloaded v. 1.20, trying it out for an upcoming wheat beer brew. Very intuitive. Thanks for sharing this!

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Just downloaded v. 1.20, trying it out for an upcoming wheat beer brew. Very intuitive. Thanks for sharing this!

Keep us in the loop as to how it turns out!

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Announcing 'Mash Made Easy' version 1.30

Changes made to this spreadsheet since version 1.20:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Added a new malt classification for "Brown/Mid Roast" which is to be used with brown malts that are roasted, but not considered deep roasted (and are not caramel or crystal malts). The typical Lovibond range for brown roasted malts spans from about 38L to 130L (Metric: 100 EBC to 350 EBC).

2) Simplified and made critical output fixes on the sparge water acidification page.

All current or new users should upgrade to version 1.30. Download this upgrade at the link below. As always, free and complete.

 

[Javaslinger]

As with most of these, I'm confused as to which category to put various malts. For example, is Rye Malt a base malt or a specialty? I think it would be helpful to have a list of 'most' malts and their appropriate category or perhaps work it into a dropdown as well.

 

[Javaslinger]

A few comments. I'm comparing the results that your software is giving with what I got for Bru n' Water. I have no idea which is more accurate - but Brun'water is considered the gold standard. My grain bill is 15lb Pale 2 row, 1lb 10oz Black Patent (500), 1lb 10oz Caramel 120, 1lb 10oz Chocolate Malt (350) and 1lb 6oz Rye Malt (4.7). Your software is giving me a pH of 5.36 without any mineral additions. I have very clean water to begin with. On the other hand, Brun'water is giving me a pH of 5.11. Considerably different. I'm curious if I'm doing something wrong, or which should I trust?

Perhaps more importantly, after adding the same mineral additions in both, the pH in BrunWater falls to 4.9 and yours only falls to 5.2. I suppose the fall about the same, but BruNwater indicates I need to raise my pH considerably whereas yours would suggest it's perhaps a tad low, but possibly in the range to work with...

Maybe the only way to really test it is to mash in and take a pH reading to see who is right, but I thought you might have a comment or suggestion.

 

[Javaslinger]

One other thing, I think it would be a good idea to add mineral addition options to raise pH, such as Pickling Lime (Slaked Lime) or Ca(OH)2 and Baking Soda.

 

[Javaslinger]

A few comments. I'm comparing the results that your software is giving with what I got for Bru n' Water. I have no idea which is more accurate - but Brun'water is considered the gold standard. My grain bill is 15lb Pale 2 row, 1lb 10oz Black Patent (500), 1lb 10oz Caramel 120, 1lb 10oz Chocolate Malt (350) and 1lb 6oz Rye Malt (4.7). Your software is giving me a pH of 5.36 without any mineral additions. I have very clean water to begin with. On the other hand, Brun'water is giving me a pH of 5.11. Considerably different. I'm curious if I'm doing something wrong, or which should I trust?

Perhaps more importantly, after adding the same mineral additions in both, the pH in BrunWater falls to 4.9 and yours only falls to 5.2. I suppose the fall about the same, but BruNwater indicates I need to raise my pH considerably whereas yours would suggest it's perhaps a tad low, but possibly in the range to work with...

Maybe the only way to really test it is to mash in and take a pH reading to see who is right, but I thought you might have a comment or suggestion.

Followup on this. I brewed this Thursday and used the mineral additions according to Brun'water. I was shooting for 5.4 pH and took a measurement 20 minutes into the mash. My pH reading was 5.44. So this would seem to suggest (with a single data point of course) that your software would have underestimated the pH by about 0.2. Not a huge difference but if I has not used any Calcium Hydroxide to raise the pH I would have likely ended up as low as 5.0.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

A few comments. I'm comparing the results that your software is giving with what I got for Bru n' Water. I have no idea which is more accurate - but Brun'water is considered the gold standard. My grain bill is 15lb Pale 2 row, 1lb 10oz Black Patent (500), 1lb 10oz Caramel 120, 1lb 10oz Chocolate Malt (350) and 1lb 6oz Rye Malt (4.7). Your software is giving me a pH of 5.36 without any mineral additions. I have very clean water to begin with. On the other hand, Brun'water is giving me a pH of 5.11. Considerably different. I'm curious if I'm doing something wrong, or which should I trust?

Perhaps more importantly, after adding the same mineral additions in both, the pH in BrunWater falls to 4.9 and yours only falls to 5.2. I suppose the fall about the same, but BruNwater indicates I need to raise my pH considerably whereas yours would suggest it's perhaps a tad low, but possibly in the range to work with...

Maybe the only way to really test it is to mash in and take a pH reading to see who is right, but I thought you might have a comment or suggestion.

I know what makes my program tick, and I don't know what makes the other program tick, so with that bias in mind it goes without saying that I have every confidence in mine. I also know that my DI_Mash pH data regressions originate from maltsters own internal lab tests. That said, Rye Malt seems to be outside of the realm of either program at the present time. And I was constantly receiving mash pH data from my Beta-Testers well before release (and now I'm receiving feedback from other users post release) generally praising the overall accuracy of my program vs. others.

My program carefully considers that mineral additions will not in the real world have the full measured impact upon pH in the mash that Kolbach originally calculated (and monitored) at "knock out", which is a step that occurs well down stream of the mash and is therefore not fully relevant to the mash. I can only speculate that perhaps the other program incorrectly applies to mineralization the full impact of Kolbach's monitored knock out pH to the mash.

Due to utilizing actual maltster data my program also understands that deep roasted malts are not generally as acidic as some other programs may presume.

The only way to nominally gauge each programs pH predicting accuracy is to mash and monitor your pH. And to do so multiple times across a range of different styles. The only way to truly gauge the precision of each program is to undertake your own DI_Mash pH monitoring for every new lot of malt which you purchase. My program allows for entering these values, which then override the regression based output and offer a (theoretically at least) far more accurate output.

Basing opinions on one single mash with one single data point is not necessarily the best way to go about things.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

One other thing, I think it would be a good idea to add mineral addition options to raise pH, such as Pickling Lime (Slaked Lime) or Ca(OH)2 and Baking Soda.

If 'Mash Made Easy' were to evolve to became a Swiss Army Knife capable of juggling all of the myriads of potential desired features it would no longer be intuitive or easy, defeating its very purpose.

 

[bitteritdown]

Have you based your work off of Kai's: Effect of Water and Grist on Mash pH or have you developed your own algorithm, maybe A.J. Delange's Mash pH prediction?

 

[Javaslinger]

Deleted

 

[Javaslinger]

Ok, I think I see a mistake I made... Does Mash Made Easy automatically determine and add the 'appropriate' base if a boost of pH is needed? I'm now seeing that it seems to have added 4.9 grams of Baking soda.... My mistake it seems, but this I think is not an intuitive way to do this. With most of the mineral additions being user driven, to have one determined automatically, I just missed it completely.

It's still fairly significantly off from Brun'water, but at least now I see there is an option to raise pH.

On the other had, I still think you should consider Ca(OH)2. After all you do have 3 options for acid additons that all serve the same exact purpose. While Ca(OH)2 has several advantages over Baking soda. 1) Alternative source for more Ca, 2) No sodium and 3) No Chloride.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Ok, I think I see a mistake I made... Does Mash Made Easy automatically determine and add the 'appropriate' base if a boost of pH is needed? I'm now seeing that it seems to have added 4.9 grams of Baking soda.... My mistake it seems, but this I think is not an intuitive way to do this. With most of the mineral additions being user driven, to have one determined automatically, I just missed it completely.

If pH must be raised to bring you to your chosen target mash pH, then 'Mash Made Easy' informs you automatically as to how much baking soda must be added in order to achieve your personally chosen target mash pH. Once you are aware of how it functions it is far more simple and intuitive (the "Easy" part of 'Mash Made Easy') than the tedious "hunt and peck" (as well as for some programs: adjustment entered cumbersomely as "per gallons" instead of adjustment directly converted to match your chosen strike water volume) method of mash pH adjustment offered by all of the alternative programs. The same applies to mash acidification if/as required to meet your mash pH target.

Off the top of my head, if you choose to add Ca(OH)2 instead of baking soda to raise mash pH, simply multiply the suggested baking soda addition by 0.61 and add that amount of pickling lime instead. But beware that calcium hydroxide is leagues more hazardous to handle than baking soda.

Whatever path you take, please do not fall into a trap of presuming that any mash pH program (including my own) is to be considered as gospel, and to be placed upon a pinnacle above ones own techniques and measurement. I urge you to see my other posts that address this subject in order to understand why this is critical to grasp.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Have you based your work off of Kai's: Effect of Water and Grist on Mash pH or have you developed your own algorithm, maybe A.J. Delange's Mash pH prediction?

My influences were derived from a little of this, a little of that, plus my own work, and other.... See my list of credits.

Edit: I just noticed that Briess should be listed among my credits, but is not. I'll fix that with my next upgrade.

 

[bitteritdown]

So basically you used Briess/Weyermann pH data and fitted what you thought were appropriate regressions?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

So basically you used Briess/Weyermann pH data and fitted what you thought were appropriate regressions?

Overall something along those lines was a very small part of what is a much bigger picture. Would you be willing to share ideas that would improve upon this?

 

[Rhaop]

Sub’d Thank you for this, i like anytime KISS is the theme especially with water chemistry it should be quick and easy!!

 

[bitteritdown]

Overall something along those lines was a very small part of what is a much bigger picture. Would you be willing to share ideas that would improve upon this?

What's with the vague answers? You either have a new algorithm or are using some form of one or both of those that have been previously developed. This stuff isn't top secret.

 

[Teesquar]

Did a Helles last weekend and a 15 minute mash reading came in almost right on to the MME 1.3 value. Simple grain bill of 90% European Pilsner and 10% Munich I.

The more complex or darker the bill, the more variation shows up. As long as it's close, it tells me I didn't screw up somewhere. Not that it matters, as I only use the pH for tracking purposes and not "adjust on the fly". Although, if a reading were to be out of whack, I'd probably try and correct it.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Announcing the release of the latest (5/2/18) update for 'Mash Made Easy', in both its standard (Avoirdupois) and fully metric formats. I've altered the DI_mash pH characteristics for the "Brown" malt class, lowering the default pH across the Lovibond (or EBC) scale for this specific classification of malts, to more closely reflect the recent DI_mash test results achieved by forum member 'cire' for a representative of this class (as seen on the "Brew Science" forum). The new Version 1.40 update can be downloaded for free at the below listed website.

 

[enkamania]

Announcing the release of the latest (5/2/18) update for 'Mash Made Easy', in both its standard (Avoirdupois) and fully metric formats. I've altered the DI_mash pH characteristics for the "Brown" malt class, lowering the default pH across the Lovibond (or EBC) scale for this specific classification of malts, to more closely reflect the recent DI_mash test results achieved by forum member 'cire' for a representative of this class (as seen on the "Brew Science" forum). The new Version 1.40 update can be downloaded for free at the below listed website.

This is timely, I ran some numbers yesterday and they seemed off. Today, got what I expected. Thanks for the update