And my Belgian Wit is no longer fresh

[jamesnsw]

Tonight I dumped out my beer. I brewed a Belgian Wit about 3.5 months ago, and bottled it about 2 months ago. Most of it went fast, but I saved a couple bottles.
Then tonight I opened up a bomber, and wow... it was gross. One of my friends who liked it a couple of weeks ago also thought it was gross.
I knew Wheat beers were better young, but wow... I will have to drink even faster next time, with no hoarding allowed.
I'll just ahve to wait and see if it is all the bottles, or if just that one went bad.
So, lesson learned. Drink lots of beer. Fast.

 

[killian]

what did it taste like?

 

[Schlenkerla]

Next time try to minimize how much yeast you get into the bottle. This style has poorer flocculation or will be cloudy at bottling so it will add to the sedimentation after they long past being carbed.

When you go to pour your beers rouse the yeast to get it back into suspension, its recommended on Hoegaarten. This helps more than you would think for flavor. Gently roll the bottle prior to opening or pour half a beer then swirl the bottle to get it re-suspended then up end the bottle. Maybe do both.

You can also chill these beers too for storage to help slow the aging. If you store them warm let them chill at least 24-48 hours.

 

[jamesnsw]

what did it taste like?

I wish I was better at describing tastes- maybe sour is the best way? It was definitely no longer a beer i enjoyed drinking (honestly, this one was for the housemates, I never enjoyed it as much as some of the others).

Okay... SWMBO's meeting went longer than she thought, so I had time to open up another to test.

Aroma is definitely not good. It smells like sour bananas. This beer definitely had an ester problem that bothered me (but not my friends necessarily) so that may have something to do with it... but it smells like the bananas have gone bad.

Ok.. this one isn't as bad as the other one. But now I'm sitting here, trying to figure out what it tastes like. Maybe a bit cidery? Anyone with experience on old Wits want to describe it, so I can yay or nay it?

 

[jamesnsw]

Next time try to minimize how much yeast you get into the bottle. This style has poorer flocculation or will be cloudy at bottling so it will add to the sedimentation after they long past being carbed.

When you go to pour your beers rouse the yeast to get it back into suspension, its recommended on Hoegaarten. This helps more than you would think for flavor. Gently roll the bottle prior to opening or pour half a beer then swirl the bottle to get it re-suspended then up end the bottle. Maybe do both.

You can also chill these beers too for storage to help slow the aging. If you store them warm let them chill at least 24-48 hours.

So if the beer tastes like it's going bad without swirling the bottle, and decent with swirling the bottle, does that mean the yeast is simply masking the bad taste?

I think I will probably chill my remaining 5 or 6 bottles now, and deal with it on a bottle by bottle basis, and try to drink them fast.

Although... is there any chance that an aged Wit will get better again? After a year or something? I'm willing to store this for awhile, at least a bottle or two, just to see. Anyone with experience on that?

 

[dontman]

I just finished up a batch of Wit that I brewed in November. I took a couple sixes to a party and it was really really good. Better than it was back in January and February. I only chilled it on the way to the party.

Oxidation can definitely take its toll on a beer.

I don't know. I was expecting less than stellar results when I tried it before the party and was very pleasantly surprised.

 

[Casey27]

Sour or cidery sounds like a contamination issue rather than just plain aging. I just tried a wit I brewed in January and it was certainly not as good as when fresh, but there were no distinct off-flavors. Rather, the interesting flavors had just mellowed out of it.

 

[Schlenkerla]

How did you carb these? Wonder if thats part of it...

Chill these for a good time, many days, roll the bottle and make two aggressive pours stopping to swirl once. If you have a hefe glass use that sucker.

Belgian Wits are banana and clove like and do have a touch of sour. Some bubble gum ester too. What yeast did you use? Also how warm or cool did you ferment? Warmer accentuates banana esters and cooler the clove.

The yeast will definitely add flavor. Be generous on the chill time.

 

[flyangler18]

Belgian Wits are banana and clove like and do have a touch of sour.

Come again?

Not the usual flavor descriptors I would associate with a Witbier at all.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Come again?

Not the usual flavor descriptors I would associate with a Witbier at all.

Maybe - Heres the BJCP style guidelines. No banana mention but I recall some banana and bubblegum (in my last two). Fruity to me often infers banana-likeness. In this case the clove is more so from the clove spices itself. Forgot about orange peel, citrus taste. A light lactic sour taste is not uncommon.

2004 BJCP Style Guidelines

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=69

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=137

Mind you I not talking hefe strengths subtle though. Have to admit I can't help think hefe when I drink a wit. It might be more mental.

Wits & Hefes are kind of like beer cousins.....


Truth be told, one should see the recipe and know the yeast with ferment temps before giving too much advice about flavor results.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I have made my last two hefe's with 3068 and they have been cool ferments about 62F. Each beer reminded me of Hoegaarten at the beginning of the beer. Estery smells and what not. Early to midway through the beer that seems to vanish.

I also have a Hoegaarten Clone that is spot on for that beer.

 

[Schlenkerla]

One note about the rousing yeast pour. Did you use any spices?

You might be getting those into solution with a good pour. Odds are if you have that sediment in the bottle they need to get perked up. Not to mention good solid pour lets out more esters as the CO2 escapes.

3 posts later.... I'm done...

 

[Revvy]

I also have a Hoegaarten Clone that is spot on for that beer.

Which I notice is NOT in your pulldown....

*hint hint*

 

[flyangler18]

Fruity to me often infers banana-likeness.

There are loads of ester compounds that have a vast amount of flavors and aromas; isoamyl acetate (banana) is but one. Phenols are equally diverse - smoke, for example, is a phenol. Eugenol, responsible for the clove character, is another.

 

[Schlenkerla]

There are loads of ester compounds that have a vast amount of flavors and aromas; isoamyl acetate (banana) is but one. Phenols are equally diverse - smoke, for example, is a phenol. Eugenol, responsible for the clove character, is another.

Right - This is the one I mainly associate with European wheat beers.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Which I notice is NOT in your pulldown....

*hint hint*

I'll get one on there shortly!!!

Done, its out there now.

 

[flyangler18]

Right - This is the one I mainly associate with European wheat beers.

Weissbiers, yes, but a clovey phenolic is most certainly out of place in a Witbier. Spicy and perhaps peppery, but definitely not clovey. Witbier strains just don't have that kind of character to my palate.

I geek out on Witbier.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Weissbiers, yes, but a clovey phenolic is most certainly out of place in a Witbier. Spicy and perhaps peppery, but definitely not clovey. Witbier strains just don't have that kind of character to my palate.

I geek out on Witbier.

I'll admit that I had hefe on my mind with that earlier comment, I am mistaken on the clovey phenolic parts. The estery-phenolics can change with the fermentation temps.

Wits can be spiced with clove, same with saison. Those damned Belgians throw all the style rules out when they make beer.

 

[flyangler18]

Wits can be spiced with clove, same with saison.

Can, but shouldn't - just my opinion, of course.

The beauty of both Witbier and Saison is the complexity comes from the yeast against a simple, uncomplicated grist and subtle, nuanced spicing (or none at all in the best saison).

 

[Revvy]

Thanks for posting your wit recipe Schlenkerla!!!!

 

[Schlenkerla]

Weissbiers, yes, but a clovey phenolic is most certainly out of place in a Witbier. Spicy and perhaps peppery, but definitely not clovey. Witbier strains just don't have that kind of character to my palate.

I geek out on Witbier.

Look at this; Wyeast Laboratories. Belgian Witbierâ„¢ 3944

Produces a complex flavor profile with a spicy phenolic character and low ester production. Phenols tend to dominate other flavors and dissipate with age. Ferments fairly dry with a finish that compliments malted and unmalted wheat and oats. Sometimes used in conjunction with lactic acid bacteria to produces a sharper finish. This strain is a true top cropping yeast requiring full fermenter headspace

Whats your opinion on what I have highlighted?

BTW - Have to bail for few hours....

 

[flyangler18]

Look at this; Wyeast Laboratories. Belgian Witbier™ 3944

Whats your opinion on what I have highlighted?

I've used that strain extensively - and while the spicy phenolic character is certainly present, it isn't at all like clove. As I mentioned earlier, there are loads of individual phenol compounds with very different flavors and aromas.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I've used that strain extensively - and while the spicy phenolic character is certainly present, it isn't at all like clove. As I mentioned earlier, there are loads of individual phenol compounds with very different flavors and aromas.

OK - forget I said that!!!

 

[Schlenkerla]

I have never noticed clove to be as strong a presence as banana. Phenolic vs Ester.

 

[Homercidal]

Jamesnw, I wonder if you got a contamination. I had a Wit that lasted several months with nothing more adverse than a very slight decrease in flavor. No more tart than when it started, which was very mild IMO.

 

[jamesnsw]

It may be a contamination, honestly. I counted, and I have 4 bottles left of this, so they're all in the fridge. The second I opened last night seemed less sour, so I'm hoping if it is contamination, that it is just a single bottle.

I used WLP400, and it definitely fermented too hot. It's been the only beer I've made so far that I was unable to drink the samples I took, it was so estery.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Here are reviews for WL400. White Labs - WLP400

Looks like its got that slight tart & sour taste. If young it can also have a sulfury odor.

Its possible that you got a dirty bottle. At times, I have found that I'm not in the mood for a particular beer. Might be what I ate or have been previously drinking.

Try those last few after they get some chill time.

FYI - Best foods for a Belgian Wit;

Breakfast: Any egg dish with cheese, bacon & sausage

Lunch: Salads with vinaigrette and cheese, ham, eggs.

Dinner: Fish; like salmon w/ smoked gouda on ciabatta, delicate fish like turbot, sole, tilapia, shellfish with spicy seasonings. Mexican or Thai dishes with pork or chicken

Snacks: Hot Pickled Eggs & Sausage https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f56/pickled-sausage-112481/​

 

[jamesnsw]

Here are reviews for WL400. White Labs - WLP400

Looks like its got that slight tart & sour taste. If young it can also have a sulfury odor.

Its possible that you got a dirty bottle. At times, I have found that I'm not in the mood for a particular beer. Might be what I ate or have been previously drinking.

Try those last few after they get some chill time.

FYI - Best foods for a Belgian Wit;

Breakfast: Any egg dish with cheese, bacon & sausage

Lunch: Salads with vinaigrette and cheese, ham, eggs.

Dinner: Fish; like salmon w/ smoked gouda on ciabatta, delicate fish like turbot, sole, tilapia, shellfish with spicy seasonings. Mexican or Thai dishes with pork or chicken

Snacks: Hot Pickled Eggs & Sausage https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f56/pickled-sausage-112481/​

Mmm you're making me hungry.

Honestly, I think it could be a combination of a dirty bottle, plus me not being in the mood for that beer. Oh well.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Saccharomyces]

It definitely goes down hill fast, but after four months it's still drinkable. By six months it tastes more like an American Wheat. But it shouldn't be nasty...

Wit pairs nicely with a donut. That's my brewday breakfast.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Wit pairs nicely with a donut. That's my brewday breakfast.

What kind of donut? Jelli-filled or with Bavarian Cream? Glazed or Plain.

 

[dontman]

I like a good hefe for my breakfast brew. It is like a fun bowl of wheatina.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I like a good hefe for my breakfast brew. It is like a fun bowl of wheatina.

Breakfast Stout is better w/ a bit of oatmeal!!!