Ancient brewing and crazy ideas

[kanzimonson]

I was recently reading an article that surmised how brewing and fermentation may have been discovered and got an idea that I doubt anyone will ever try but had the insatiable need to hear others' opinions.

So our ancient homies probably accidentally got some starches in a liquid solution, let it sit, ate/drank it later, and got mildly intoxicated. This got me thinking about fermenting a wort that still contains grains.

I'm not necessarily talking about letting a mash sit until its sour - rather, I want to mash, mash out, and then pitch some yeast in the liquid. Hell, you could boil it with some hops or whatever (I guess you might get some negative contributions from the grain here) if you want it to taste more like modern beer. Or you could mill grains to something of a grits consistency, ferment, and then eat an alcoholic mush.

Maybe I'm just trying to get alcohol into solid food...

 

[smmcdermott]

I am absolutely no expert and this seems like something that should be left to someone who knows more, but I will throw out what I think to see if I am right

1) the problem with not boiling is that you are not sanitizing everything. By not boiling the wort, you can pick up an infection from just about anywhere...the grains, the MLT, you touching it, etc.

2) without hops to balance out the malty flavors, you will have a very sweet "beer" if you could even call it that.

3) I think for something to be technically beer, it has to have hops in it (hence the "beer" inpoint two)

Not sure if I am right though.

 

[Dos_Locos_Brewery]

Well, as long as you boil the mush before pitching you avoid the infection problem, and if you use hops in the "mush boil", you avoid the flavor inbalance problem. I think it's worth a shot. Astringency from boiling the grains shouldn't be much of an issue - otherwise decoction would never work. Go for it! I suggest a small pilot batch, though

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

considering that it wasn't until Pasteur taht yeast were discovered i very seriously doubt our "Ancient Homies" boiled anything. Nor did they utilize hops as those are a relatively recent (historically in the perspective of beer) discovery.

Ifin's you want some ancient brew, mix some grain in some water and let it set til it foams over. I hope you have a iron stomach and a low deductible tho' as I suspect there is reason as to why the recipe changed over the years.

 

[TBrosBrewing]

Actually, you wouldn't need to boil it. Just do a mash out. Once the grist is above 165F just about anything will be dead. Just make sure your equipment is properly sanitized and I'm sure you would be fine.

 

[kanzimonson]

Have you ever tasted the decanted liquid from a yeast starter? It's not undrinkable... a slightly sweet ale, kinda refreshing.

And remember, the original brewers didn't know much about bacteria theory and they were able to produce drinkable alcohol. Might not have been that good, but drinkable. Sure, to make great beer by modern standards we have to be concerned about all this, but it's not like you "can't" make beer without concern for sanitation. Especially if you pitch a huge culture of yeast that will out-compete other organisms.

And another question: doesn't the length of time and temperature of mashing mean that your grains are pasteurized? Especially if you mash out? Most of the instructions for souring a mash involve you lowering the temp before adding some extra grain (which will contain the lactobacillus you're looking for).

 

[Hardleft]

Its weird that people assume that beer was horrible a long time ago. Why would people drink it if it sucked?

 

[Ashz]

Why do people drink MD20/20? Just saying.

 

[ODIN]

Its weird that people assume that beer was horrible a long time ago. Why would people drink it if it sucked?

Not arguing! but you have to remember that in the history of civilization the majority of water available was not safe to drink. therefore fermenting actually disinfected the water through the introduction of alcohol, therefore making the water potable. don't S#!^ where you eat and don't put your S#!^ in your drink. but necessity gave us fermentation so

Edit: forgot to add that i would rather drink something that tasted bad then die of dysentery (sp?).

 

[kanzimonson]

Its weird that people assume that beer was horrible a long time ago. Why would people drink it if it sucked?

Because it's the only thing they had to drink that was potable. The potency was just an added benefit! Have you ever made a terrible beer that didn't turn out right? I definitely have. If it were the only thing I had to drink, you better believe I'd drink it.

Also we need to take into account cultural preferences. I bet an ancient brewer might have a hard time enjoying the beers we make today. Imagine how different a high alcohol, bitter, hoppy IPA is from a very low alcohol, lightly sweet, herb-flavored, uncarbonated yeast water.

 

[Hardleft]

I think that beer as a replacement for water would have only been needed after the industrial revolution. What would have polluted entire rivers and lakes 2000 years ago?

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Sewage and other rotting household waste.

 

[ODIN]

Ancient civilizations also believed that water was a cause for almost all diseases such as the plague and others.Before the understanding of airborne, and vector disease transmission, the only thing in common with all the people who got sick was believed to be the water. True that some of those diseases were carried by the water but if you believed that water caused the scariest diseases of your time you wouldn't drink it unless it had been cleaned (fermented).

 

[Mongo64]

I think that beer as a replacement for water would have only been needed after the industrial revolution. What would have polluted entire rivers and lakes 2000 years ago?

Before the industrial revolution people were often sick from drinking water contaminated by animal and human waste. Waterborne microorganisms can be quite nasty; Cholera, Dysentery, Typhoid to mention just a few that can kill you and there are many more that can make you very ill. If I lived back then I think I'd rather have a beer.

 

[katja]

Sounds like basic sourdough bread to me. Try mixing equal parts water and flour. Each day, toss half the mixture in the garbage and add equal parts fresh water and flour. In 4-5 days (especially if you brew in your kitchen) you will have fermented grain and water and a sourdough starter.

 

[rugman]

as stated in previous posts in medieval Europe people avoided drinking water due to sanitation issues typically the rich drank wine, mead and poor people drank beer.

the ancient Egyptians brewed a beer like concoction 2-3,000 years ago but Alcohol consumption probably existed prior to agrarian life style with naturally fermented fruits.

 

[rico567]

Its weird that people assume that beer was horrible a long time ago. Why would people drink it if it sucked?

1. People's opinion of what "sucks" differs.

2. As has been stated, fermenting excludes other (and possibly harmful) organisms in an unsafe water supply. This, of course, predicates boiling. While fermented beverages were almost certainly discovered by accident when some wild yeast infected a sugar-rich liquid, the actual knowledge that this somehow made the liquid safe to drink probably didn't occur until much, much later.

3. What has not been covered is the Dionysian aspect of alcohol. "The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom." Thus the tendency for some human cultures to value "getting out of your own head" in one form or another: drinking alcohol, weed, magic mushrooms, opium poppies, coca leaves and more synthetic products of the chemical cornucopia such as heroin, meth, crack, etc. To get this, some people would drink a beverage that tasted like skunk juice, just as some people today will risk their lives shooting up with dirty needles.

cf. Ruth Benedict in Patterns of Culture discussing the plains vs. pueblo Indians, Joseph Campbell in Primitive Mythology discussing the whole thing in great detail, etc.

 

[COLObrewer]

One day while pounding my pestle I missed the mortar and the entire mash flew into the honey bowl I had soaking in water (That darn thing is hard to clean). No problem, I'll just let it soak a few minutes and make the bread. About that time the goats got out so I had to go beat them a while. Well I forgot about the bread cause about that time the Ower th' brae clan came a callin and I made haist for the woods (No-one messes with Ower th' brae clanfolk).

I didn't bother coming back for a couple of weeks cause I knew they wouldn't leave until every goat was either eaten or "ridden" to death. Well making a long story short, when I got back I was a might weak and discooraged, of course all my stock that was fit for eatin was laying in a heap made up entirely of charred bain ashes.

So, while I started to pick up the place I noticed a gantin' reek exuding from around the corner of the goat pen where I make the bread. I slinked my way around to peer over and see what manner of being made this odour and to my beguile I saw the honey bowl full of the bread meal and teppid water.

It didn't look too bad but something had foamed ower th' sides earlier and from the colur and reek of the mess I wondered if someone had used it for relief. After studying it awhile I decided to taste it, yes that's right, I was guttin' AND thirsty so don't give me that, YOU would do the same!

Well, . . . I ended up drinking all of it and ate the muck at the bottom too, That's about all I remember until I woke up the next morn. I must have gone a roamin' as I had the tartan pin from the chief of the Ower th' brae clan stuck in my hat and I saw his wench laying on the hides asleep looking mighty rested and ravaged. :rockin:

Man, I have a headache, ah well better get to it, . . . .now where's that pestle . . . .

 

[skadalajara]

Soon as I get my first AG brew done, I intend to make an "accidental" beer. I just need to find some whole barley.
Ancient breads contained sprouted grains and dried fruits. And I doubt they were baked thoroughly, either.
I'll make a bread of sprouted whole barley and some home-dried organic apples. Then I'll let it soak in water til it foams over.
There seems to be evidence that this is how beer started out. Some bread got wet in a surprise rainstorm and the yeast on the dried fruits was enough to prevent the lacto from consuming all the available sugars.
The Egyptians, from what little I've read, started intentional beer brewing with bread soaked in Nile water. Then they pressed the liquid out and set it in earthen vessels to ferment. The bread was then probably eaten too.
I expect it to be drinkable, if not tasty.

 

[rico567]

"COLObrewer" = WIN. Thread over.

 

[Ashz]

COLObrewer, well done sir, well done.