Amylase In Beer

[buresh_matt]

I've been thinking more about alpha/beta amylase in beer and i'm wondering why NEIPA's are not mashed in at higher temperatures? My understanding is Alpha amylase are around 158 mash and they are more complex sugars from the enzymatic conversion and yest find it harder to consume so the beer would taste sweeter. I'm sure my line of thinking is wrong but why? I don't see any recipes online that go for a higher mash past 153. Less alcohol percentage, but why wouldn't this be a viable method to sweeten up a beer with the alphas?

 

[day_trippr]

I believe most of the residual sweetness associated with New England IPAs is due to the trait of the most commonly used yeast strains towards very low conversion - like in the low 70s% range - leaving a lot of sugars like maltotriose and even maltose behind ("Boddington" strains such as London III, for instance).

That works so well there's really no need to push the mash temperature towards heavier sugar chain development - indeed, one may rather use a slightly "drier" approach if the finish tends towards too heavy. I use London III (wy1318) and my initial NEIPA saccharification rest is at 148°F...

Cheers!

 

[Nagorg]

I just don't brew NEIPA's at all... Problem solved!

 

[day_trippr]

 

[buresh_matt]

I believe most of the residual sweetness associated with New England IPAs is due to the trait of the most commonly used yeast strains towards very low conversion - like in the low 70s% range - leaving a lot of sugars like maltotriose and even maltose behind ("Boddington" strains such as London III, for instance).

That works so well there's really no need to push the mash temperature towards heavier sugar chain development - indeed, one may rather use a slightly "drier" approach if the finish tends towards too heavy. I use London III (wy1318) and my initial NEIPA saccharification rest is at 148°F...

Cheers!

I didn't know that about the NEIPA yeast so good to know. I wonder if I wanted to sweeten a beer up if that's a good technique? Since I have seen no recipes with a 158 mash temp I just assume it's a nono.

 

[Bobby_M]

I've been thinking more about alpha/beta amylase in beer and i'm wondering why NEIPA's are not mashed in at higher temperatures? My understanding is Alpha amylase are around 158 mash and they are more complex sugars from the enzymatic conversion and yest find it harder to consume so the beer would taste sweeter. I'm sure my line of thinking is wrong but why? I don't see any recipes online that go for a higher mash past 153. Less alcohol percentage, but why wouldn't this be a viable method to sweeten up a beer with the alphas?

Yes, the yeast find it hard to consume but then so do I. Just because the mouthfeel is generally fuller than other IPA variants, you're still striving for drinkability. Sure, if you're pushing the IBUs up and you need the residual sugar to balance it, mash hotter.

 

[passedpawn]

I've been thinking more about alpha/beta amylase in beer and i'm wondering why NEIPA's are not mashed in at higher temperatures? My understanding is Alpha amylase are around 158 mash and they are more complex sugars from the enzymatic conversion and yest find it harder to consume so the beer would taste sweeter. I'm sure my line of thinking is wrong but why? I don't see any recipes online that go for a higher mash past 153. Less alcohol percentage, but why wouldn't this be a viable method to sweeten up a beer with the alphas?

Sure, higher mash temperature is going to result in a sweeter beer.

Most drinkers, even those that like nasty NEIPAs, want their IPAs to be less body and less sweetness. This helps focus on the hop contribution.

But hey, it's homebrewing, make the beer of your dreams.

 

[HM-2]

i'm wondering why NEIPA's are not mashed in at higher temperatures?

I think they often are mashed at the higher end, 154°F being common (68°C) and sometimes as high as 70°C (is that 157 in Freedom Units?). Much over that, my understanding is you run the risk of denaturing the enzymes and getting very poor conversion.

I think there are two slightly divergent paths when it comes to retaining decent volumes of unfermentable sugars in NEIPAs, depending somewhat on the yeast strain used.

The "traditional" approach has been, as said above, to use relatively low attenuating English ale type yeasts (72-75%) and a pretty typical mash temperature.

As strains have evolved and people have experimented more, you've seen more use of higher attenuating yeasts (77-80%) which needs a hotter mash and slightly less conversion to get the same FG. Popular strains like Verdant fall into this category, as do some of the other strains that are growing in popularity for these beers like Kolsch.



I normally mash at 68 for my NEIPAs as I tend to co-pitch yeasts. My current favourite combination is Lallemand Koln and WHC Saturated which consistently nets me around 77-78% attenuation. This gets my mid 6% beers to 1.018ish, my mid 7% beers to 1.020ish, and my mid 8% beers to 1.022 which is exactly where I like them.