american stainless conicals from PA

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augiedoggy

augiedoggy

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So I just won this 12.5 gallon stainless conical from "americanhomebrewing" on ebay.. I've seen them selling these on ebay for a while now and I like the fact that they are made in PA. supposedly this is a new design. The 12.5 gallon stout conical I have now cost over $100 more than the $362 I paid for this one with shipping and this one comes with more barbed fittings and a butterfly valve. they auctioned a handful of these off one every 16hrs and it looks like they now settled on a buyitnow rice of $336 + shipping... HMM how is it possible that something made here can still be so affordable when its closest American made competitor charges more than double that price?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOMEBREW-CO...S-beer-wine-/291553997162?hash=item43e1f8f16a

Anyone out there use one of these or have experience with them?
 
So after doing some research it appears these are made by the people that make the spike conicals (On sale right now for only $550 + shipping!) (Which of course are also made in the USA like the blichmann ...)
http://spikebrewing.com/products/12-5-gallon-stainless-steel-conical-fermenter

These appear to be a new design like advertised with stronger leg supports and a newer locking top mechanism which is used by another conical maker as well. Same 2mm thick lid also with the port just being centered now.
 
augiedoggy said:
So after doing some research it appears these are made by the people that make the spike conicals (On sale right now for only $550 + shipping!) (Which of course are also made in the USA like the blichmann ...)
http://spikebrewing.com/products/12-5-gallon-stainless-steel-conical-fermenter

These appear to be a new design like advertised with stronger leg supports and a newer locking top mechanism which is used by another conical maker as well. Same 2mm thick lid also with the port just being centered now.
Click to expand...

For the record these are not made by the same company as us. Those eBay conicals are actually made in China. That's where the large price difference comes in. And ours are on sale for $550 with FREE shipping :mug:
 
SpikeBrewing said:
For the record these are not made by the same company as us. Those eBay conicals are actually made in China. That's where the large price difference comes in. And ours are on sale for $550 with FREE shipping :mug:
Click to expand...

Really? How do you know? From the manufacturing pictures and talk about it being designed and built by some guy name Dave it really appears they are made in the US? I'll admit I could have sworn there was a paragraph about them being made here in the USA before but It doesnt appear to be there now.

You have to admit they have an awful lot of similarities to the ones you sell and these have been being sold for at least five years according to the feedback. I did notice the different dimensions and that should have been a clue but I often see different specs and dimensions listed for the exact same products so I made a bad assumption there.

My bad on the free shipping... I see your still selling them for $700 on ebay..

many of the buyers commented about it being made in the USA in their feedback as well.

It would actually be pretty deceiving if it wasnt made here...I wonder if the tanks are made here and then sent to china for assembly? Guess I will have to inquire more about it. most have Chinese made valves and fittings regardless of origin.

Thanks for setting me straight BTW.
 
I don't know anything about these, but if this is the actual plant, that doesn't look like China.....

$%28KGrHqN,!iMFDykz1Vi9BRImHwgwsg~~60_57.JPG
 
Peruvian802 said:
I don't know anything about these, but if this is the actual plant, that doesn't look like China.....

$%28KGrHqN,!iMFDykz1Vi9BRImHwgwsg~~60_57.JPG
Click to expand...

Yeah I thought the same thing.... hopefully theres not some kind of shell game going on with the ebay seller... I have clicked on their add dozens of times in the last year and could have sworn they advertised as American made... maybe the "redesigned" ones are no longer made here and those are old pics?
 
Its eBay they can say what they want ...basically they buy from China and assemble in the U.S.
 
Schumed said:
Its eBay they can say what they want ...basically they buy from China and assemble in the U.S.
Click to expand...

No offense but I can say the same thing about your statement no? This isnt exact a Harley Davidson...Not sure they use their approach, Not much to buy from china to assemble besides the accessories like valves..

How do you know this or are you just assuming here?... I googled the origin and found a few old threads mentioning this Dave guys info and that he direct sells them through email or on ebay and has no website... all the reviews I could find on the product were top notch and that was really my main concern but it would be nice to know who and where this is made.
 
Until I see actual videos of people making the stainless steel and making equipment assume it's origin is Chinese with us assembly including blichmann ...you can go check some of the Chinese websites like Aliexpress and find almost anything that claims to be us made...I don't have a problem with it ..it's a global economy
 
Schumed said:
Until I see actual videos of people making the stainless steel and making equipment assume it's origin is Chinese with us assembly including blichmann ...you can go check some of the Chinese websites like Aliexpress and find almost anything that claims to be us made...I don't have a problem with it ..it's a global economy
Click to expand...
While I argree that this is very often the case its not ALWAYS the case... Some things are made in other countries like levis jeans which are made by some company in Egypt now even though they still use their "all american" marketing bs to perceive otherwise...:cross:

The bottom line is the manufacturing of most products has little to do with the brand name on said product in todays middleman economy but back on topic....

I think its safe to say your making an educated guess based on your experiences..

I messaged the seller and asked for his input... either way I report back with results but the bottom line is I have sifted thru like 5 years of positive feedback and praise about these things so I'm expecting a great value for the smaller than normal investment based on this.

I currently only have a Chinese made "stout" branded 12.5 stainless conical for reference but from the pics and experiences I've seen and read about here I was lucky and many were not so consistently satisfied.

I will say I have seen no evidence of poor quality or rust on my stout conical in the 11 months or so Ive owned it.
 
Hmm? the pic seems to show the spike conical without the spike logo but with the made in the usa logo that the spike kettle has as well as the spike style band at the top and legs yet the link below takes you to the seller I bought mine from....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEAMLESS-CO...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
http://www.homebrewfinds.com/2013/05/seamless-125-gallon-stainless-conical_30.html

Look at this!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEAMLESS-CO...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Well damn SPIKE! if that aint the closest damn clone to your "american made" conical I have ever seen? It looks like my original thoughts/ comments may have had some truth to them afterall?

I get the feeling the conical I just bought IS from the same supplier that made yours... question is? does that supplier STILL make his own?
Why wouldnt you just fess up and mention this in the first comment you made about it not being the same conical as yours and instead being Chinese made...

I have a feeling now I may not get an answer from the supplier/ manufacturer because they may not want to mess up any distribution deals they have with Spike IF they are still dealing with them.
 
augiedoggy said:
Hmm? the pic seems to show the spike conical without the spike logo but with the made in the usa logo that the spike kettle has as well as the spike style band at the top and legs yet the link below takes you to the seller I bought mine from....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEAMLESS-CO...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
http://www.homebrewfinds.com/2013/05/seamless-125-gallon-stainless-conical_30.html

Look at this!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEAMLESS-CO...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Well damn SPIKE! if that aint the closest damn clone to your "american made" conical I have ever seen... It looks like my original thoughts/ comments may have had some truth to them afterall?

I get the feeling the conical I just bought IS from the same supplier that made yours... question is? does that supplier STILL make his own?
Why wouldnt you just fess up and mention this in the first comment you made about it not being the same conical as yours and being chinese made...

I have a feeling now I may not get an answer from the supplier/ manufacturer because they may not want to mess up any distribution deals they have with Spike IF they are still dealing with them.
Click to expand...

Something is up both of these link have been pulled down and relisted? Never mind must have been a glitch I see both now.
 
cowboy1 said:
Something is up both of these link have been pulled down and relisted?
Click to expand...

yes they are old links because the ones that spike likely sells is "americanhomebrewers" earlier design and the one they used to also sell direct and now they have been upgraded to a newer style....

Questions still remain.

1)Are the new ones sold by "americanhomebrewer" still manufactuered by them and if so is it still done in the states? (this seems likely)


2) Did spike really bother to look at my links before commenting that they were not from the same supplier?

this reminds me of the time a vendor argued with me that his " superior 316 stainless quick disconnect pt100 sensors" where designed and made specifically only for him and no others had the same product.... I then proceeded to find the exact images of the exact products he took for the aliexpess site where he bought them in bulk and doubled the price.... Gotta love the internet.
 
Go to the ebay listing and click on the picture of the guy holding the conical. Blow it up, the poster behind him on the wall is Toledo Metal Spinning. It also looks like it could be the same gentlemen holding the conical. Just my two cents. Toledo does make sanitary conicals with 1.5" triclovers on the bottom.
 
gunmetal said:
Go to the ebay listing and click on the picture of the guy holding the conical. Blow it up, the poster behind him on the wall is Toledo Metal Spinning. It also looks like it could be the same gentlemen holding the conical. Just my two cents. Toledo does make sanitary conicals with 1.5" triclovers on the bottom.
Click to expand...


I did the same thing:

http://www.toledometalspinning.com/tmsproducts/100009
 
cowboy1 said:
I did the same thing:

http://www.toledometalspinning.com/tmsproducts/100009
Click to expand...

yes they also make the cone tanks for overpriced blichmann conicals....

So My original question remains?? if such a product can still be made and sold at a profit for such a competitive reasonable price than why does most of the advertised "made in America" stuff usually have such a high markup??
are these all factory seconds of some kind? or made by an employee at the factory on the side? does spike know of the upcoming design change and is that possible why current stock is on sale?

I think its become an excuse to jack the price up and middlemen are no longer content with the 30-35% markups that were the norm of the past...

At this point I feel I have opened a can of worms by even exposing this... Hopefully I dont cause anyone any serious trouble but it is what it is right?

I would have just looked for feedback and left my original comments alone until I was told it was a chinese product made by someone else..

I'd order quick guys they may raise the price drastically of remove the product entirely if they get complaints from customers.

of course maybe I'm wrong about much of this and only the cone tank is american made since I had read blichmann uses their toledo cone but with some china sourced hardware. I get that this stuff can change constantly.
 
I picked up one of these for $360 +- delivered and have made 4 10 gallon batches. Only complaint is that the lid seals are a pain to put on and keep on when setting the lid. I think I will add some handles and that should make it better. I was going to add a racking tube on the upper valve but it is actually possitioned just right for drawing clear beer with miimum waste, sometimes I tip it a lttle to get another pint.
 
brewfarmDan said:
I picked up one of these for $360 +- delivered and have made 4 10 gallon batches. Only complaint is that the lid seals are a pain to put on and keep on when setting the lid. I think I will add some handles and that should make it better. I was going to add a racking tube on the upper valve but it is actually positioned just right for drawing clear beer with miimum waste, sometimes I tip it a lttle to get another pint.
Click to expand...
I have used the stout as well as the SSbrewing conicals and can honestly say the seal at the top is the weakest point for all of them.
The ss brewing ones I ordered for my buddy are so hard to separate once sealed and after emptying. You can lift and shake the whole conical by just holding the unfastened lid.(with the valve open).. perhaps they are not all as bad as the two I have seen but still.. He ruined a seal after 2 uses somehow though and I wasn't there to see how.
 
A lot of questions so hopefully we can answer them all...

The conicals we us, American Homebrew *used* to use and Blichmann are all made at TMS. American Homebrew moved production to China. You can almost always tell if a brewing product has been made in China if it is polished. The polishing process is too expensive to do in the US.

Any other questions please ask, we have nothing to hide! :mug:
 
SpikeBrewing said:
A lot of questions so hopefully we can answer them all...

The conicals we us, American Homebrew *used* to use and Blichmann are all made at TMS. American Homebrew moved production to China. You can almost always tell if a brewing product has been made in China if it is polished. The polishing process is too expensive to do in the US.

Any other questions please ask, we have nothing to hide! :mug:
Click to expand...

Thank you! that was actually one of my theory's I brought up :mug: Ironically I feel better about the situation now. You can see how this was confusing and misleading right?

it stinks that American homebrewer still references all the pics from when they were selling the american made ones... I see they Did remove "Made in the usa" as it WAS there in their older auctions and I'm not going crazy.

I thought the polishing ws used to prevent inferior welds from rusting myself... they still claim they use 304 stainless and special unique process(they must have shared with china?) to prevent rust from forming. They actually they didnt change the description much from when they were selling the same conicals as you were so you can see how I originally linked the two.



especially since the seller claims he designed and built it over 5 years ago.... There's a lot of misleading info..

I'm surprised then that ss brewing doesnt polish their chinese made equipment...
 
The Seller did get back to me and verified they used to be made in the USA but it got too expensive... Which does coincide with his drop in pricing. from $469 to $339
 
So I received this conical in the mail already!

For the cost its a good value.
That said the fit and finish on my stout 12.5 gallon conical is much better... Keep in mind the stout was $150 more.
The inside is kind of rough and not polished. The welds are clean enough where I have no concerns that this wont do a good job.

If the lid seals good it looks to be a superior system to the one on my stout conical. Homebrewing supply does includ a lot of free extras... like an extra silicone seal for the top cover, actual 1 1/2" butterfly valve for the bottom. and two 1/2" barb to 1.5 tc adapters as well as a couple extra TC seals... it came in a nice heavy flannel bag too which kept it from getting scratched up since the outside of the tank is polished...

The stand is interesting... the legs and supports are polished but the main supporting ring is not and has kind of sharp edges... almost like they forgot to polish it although I'm sure its meant to be that way.

All in all I wouldnt hesitate to buy another for the price I paid and may do so once I get the extra scratch floating around.

I didnt really expect to get the kind of fit and finish that you would out of one of the 5-700 fermenters like spike sells so I guess its nice to know there is a difference even it it is just cosmetic.
 
What's you temp control plan. I been debating on moving to a conical. Also how do you plan on filling it? You think casters could be attached to the feet?
 
milldoggy said:
What's you temp control plan. I been debating on moving to a conical. Also how do you plan on filling it? You think casters could be attached to the feet?
Click to expand...

I already have a 12.5g stout... I use one of these with a glycol chiller setup which works well.
http://www.gotta-brew.com/products/cool-zone-cooling-jacket.html
I built a 4 port control system with 4 stc1000+ units to control temps alaong with 4 heat bands.

The nice thing about this conical is its only 32" tall and 16" or so in diameter so it would fit in a fridge if needed...

I just run a silicone hose to it from my chiller since they sit less then 5 ft from it. I do believe casters will mount up fine though... it actually has rubber or thick felt feet on it now.
 
augiedoggy said:
I already have a 12.5g stout... I use one of these with a glycol chiller setup which works well.
http://www.gotta-brew.com/products/cool-zone-cooling-jacket.html
I built a 4 port control system with 4 stc1000+ units to control temps alaong with 4 heat bands.

The nice thing about this conical is its only 32" tall and 16" or so in diameter so it would fit in a fridge if needed...

I just run a silicone hose to it from my chiller since they sit less then 5 ft from it. I do believe casters will mount up fine though... it actually has rubber or thick felt feet on it now.
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks for the info. Added a conical to my Xmas list. I will need to use casters or something. Need to plan this one out. I do have a glycol chiller, so maybe coils.
 
milldoggy said:
Cool, thanks for the info. Added a conical to my Xmas list. I will need to use casters or something. Need to plan this one out. I do have a glycol chiller, so maybe coils.
Click to expand...

I do plan on buying 50ft of stainless coil and making 2 top mounted chiller coils to cool two of these... The cooling jackets work great but I would need the extensions (16" in diameter) and the cost with shipping is pushing $100 a piece...

I had to passivate it with bar keepers friend because I had a small spot of rust form overnight from leaving the lid on with starsan solution sitting in the bottom... I will report back on whether I see any rust return.

I will say the conicals have been one of the best upgrades I have done in terms of improvement in the beer quality and ease of use.
 
augiedoggy said:
I will say the conicals have been one of the best upgrades I have done in terms of improvement in the beer quality and ease of use.
Click to expand...

What has improved the quality, just dumping off the trub? I'd like to get one, but my big issue is the step back in temperature control. After several years, I finally invested in a chest freezer to control fermentation temps. It seems like one step forward, two steps back for me.
 
augiedoggy said:
I do plan on buying 50ft of stainless coil and making 2 top mounted chiller coils to cool two of these... The cooling jackets work great but I would need the extensions (16" in diameter) and the cost with shipping is pushing $100 a piece...

I had to passivate it with bar keepers friend because I had a small spot of rust form overnight from leaving the lid on with starsan solution sitting in the bottom... I will report back on whether I see any rust return.

I will say the conicals have been one of the best upgrades I have done in terms of improvement in the beer quality and ease of use.
Click to expand...

Where was the rust? Was it on the weld or the area surrounding the weld?

From what I read, rust will appear on or around the weld on Stainless Steel when it was not welded properly by back purging with gas or was welded "to hot" (going to slow while welding), the chromium that keep stainless steel, stainless, is removed and it will continue to rust no matter what you do.

I could be wrong, maybe someone with better Stainless welding experience can chime in.
 
dmcman73 said:
Where was the rust? Was it on the weld or the area surrounding the weld?

From what I read, rust will appear on or around the weld on Stainless Steel when it was not welded properly by back purging with gas or was welded "to hot" (going to slow while welding), the chromium that keep stainless steel, stainless, is removed and it will continue to rust no matter what you do.

I could be wrong, maybe someone with better Stainless welding experience can chime in.
Click to expand...
it was not on a weld area... I have read about this too... it looked like surface contamination and has not returned since I cleaned it with bar keepers friend.
 
BBBF said:
What has improved the quality, just dumping off the trub? I'd like to get one, but my big issue is the step back in temperature control. After several years, I finally invested in a chest freezer to control fermentation temps. It seems like one step forward, two steps back for me.
Click to expand...


temp control is important but you can easily do it with a conical setup as I do.... I use a cooling jacket on my stout 12.5 gallon fermenter now and it works great... I will likely buy stainless coil and make an immersion coil for the fermenter I have now. as well as the next 2 I plan on buying.. (I setup my chiller with 4 stc1000= controllers and 4 soleniod valves to turn on or off the coolant flow. you can use your chest freezer with a cheap aquarium pump and one of these to keep a conicals temps down.
http://www.gotta-brew.com/products/cool-zone-cooling-jacket.html

Yes I believe dumping the trub and more importantly dead yeast as it builds on the bottom is the main thing that has improved my beers... some of them used to get a metallic taste and since using the conical the beers have been clean tasting. I admit I was lazy and didnt transfer to a secondary before (mainly from reading here that it wasnt needed).
 
augiedoggy said:
temp control is important but you can easily do it with a conical setup as I do.... I use a cooling jacket on my stout 12.5 gallon fermenter now and it works great... I will likely buy stainless coil and make an immersion coil for the fermenter I have now. as well as the next 2 I plan on buying.. (I setup my chiller with 4 stc1000= controllers and 4 soleniod valves to turn on or off the coolant flow. you can use your chest freezer with a cheap aquarium pump and one of these to keep a conicals temps down.
http://www.gotta-brew.com/products/cool-zone-cooling-jacket.html

Yes I believe dumping the trub and more importantly dead yeast as it builds on the bottom is the main thing that has improved my beers... some of them used to get a metallic taste and since using the conical the beers have been clean tasting. I admit I was lazy and didnt transfer to a secondary before (mainly from reading here that it wasnt needed).
Click to expand...

I have to agree with this. Since moving to a conical allowing me to dump trub and dead yeast, it has improved the taste of my beers as well. Not by huge amounts since they tasted good before, but, a cleaner taste. I thought maybe it was a placebo effect after buying the conical but after seeing someone say the same thing tells me it's not.
 
so I bought 100ft of 3/8" 316 stainless coil for $58 with shipping yesterday and some compression fittings (ebay)... I plan on putting 30ft in each fermenter (doing 3 of them) and using the other 10ft for other projects)

I also discovered this cheap discharge hose as well as the pvc stuff sold at home depot works well when wrapped around the conical.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5-25-Ft-Discharge-Hose-/330900552367?hash=item4d0b35baaf

there is a youtube video of a guy using the pvc stuff on a stout conical and he lagers with it fine...
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OboSC4EI0vs[/ame]

I have a v vessel im going to use it with since the stainless coil wont fit well in the tiny opening.
 
dmcman73 said:
I have to agree with this. Since moving to a conical allowing me to dump trub and dead yeast, it has improved the taste of my beers as well. Not by huge amounts since they tasted good before, but, a cleaner taste. I thought maybe it was a placebo effect after buying the conical but after seeing someone say the same thing tells me it's not.
Click to expand...
Curious? you you own a Delorean ? I saw the "DMCman" and it jumped out
 

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