American Pale Ale (Mosaic, Amarillo, Citra and Simcoe hopped)

[kchomebrew]

So this one scored reasonably well but didn't win a medal in the pale ale category. Actually, it scored fantastic in all criteria but came up a bit short in Taste and the critique was that it was a bit too bitter for the style, bordering on IPA. So I'm sure there it was marked down a tad for that. And I agree with that. I firmly believe the Amarillo is stronger this year (2013 crop) and gave it too much bite. I did get nice comments on the use of the malts. From having done this batch previously, I know this one was good, but not as good as past ones I've made due to excess bitterness. What I'll probably do in future batches is omit the Warrior addition all together and focus on tweaking late additions (maybe adding in some additions at 30min or maybe 15min (citra/simcoe/mosaic/amarillo mix) and see what that does with bitterness/flavor/aroma. I'll be making this again in a couple of months and will update.

 

[kchomebrew]

Planning to brew this again soon (probably weekend of 3/22). I know I'm close to perfecting this beer and just need some minor hop schedule tweaks to dial this in just right. I know the grain bill is in line and works. So no tweaks there. I am going to remove the Warrior bittering addition and attempt to obtain bittering IBUs from late hops. I'm doing a citra, mosaic, simcoe, amarillo pellet mix twice for late boil additions, and then the same mix at hopstand/whirlpool. I'm told there is about a 10% utilization on hopstand/whirlpool additions, so I should get about 2 IBUs for every oz. of hopstand/whirlpool. My previous IBU on this one was probably around 55. Would like to bring that down a tad but pack in the aroma/flavor with upping late additions. Also, the 2013 Amarillo crop is more grassy/harsh than years past, so I am backing off on the Amarillo additions. They are still there, just will take a back seat to the other hops. Also, I am going to tone down the dry hopping. I liked the dry hops on the v1.0, and v2.0 was too strong/grassy for a sessionable hoppy pale ale. So I'm going back to amounts in v1.0 but still using a mix of citra/simcoe and omitting the Amarillo. Since I do two 6 gal. carboys on the 10gal. batches, I might try dry hopping citra/simcoe and the other batch as citra/mosaic. Could also be interesting to do a Citra/Columbus in the future (I like Columbus dry hops).

>>v.1 & v. 2 Original approx. 55 IBUs <<
=============================
>> New Schedule approx. 44 IBUs all late addition <<

 

[kchomebrew]

Brewing this one again this weekend with new hop schedule. Hoping I'll get this nailed down once and for all.

 

[hunter306]

Just brewed a similar(ish) receipe (first time on my new equipment) and I'm excited to try it out. I kegged it up yesterday evening and set it to 12psi for a slow-carb. Mine lacked the Mosaic Hops, but otherwise has a VERY similar hop profile throughout. I managed 1.053 OG, 1.011 FG, 5.2%ish. 52ibus, so more in the middle of your two last batches.

Can you post a pic of the coloring and clarity you're getting? What yeast strain?

 

[kchomebrew]

Just brewed a similar(ish) receipe (first time on my new equipment) and I'm excited to try it out. I kegged it up yesterday evening and set it to 12psi for a slow-carb. Mine lacked the Mosaic Hops, but otherwise has a VERY similar hop profile throughout. I managed 1.053 OG, 1.011 FG, 5.2%ish. 52ibus, so more in the middle of your two last batches.

Can you post a pic of the coloring and clarity you're getting? What yeast strain?

Funny you should ask. I'm drinking one right now. I will say I didnt cold crash the fermenters on this batch ( out of pure laziness) but I do use gelatin in the keg. You can see from past photos how clear it is when I cold crash. When i cold crash, it's commercial quality clear, if that's what you're after. This batch I make this weekend will be cold crashed eventually. I used wyeast 1056 on the last few times but will use US05 this go around. I've used us05 enough to feel confident there is no difference. Oh also I ferment at 66/67f. Here you go



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[kchomebrew]

Btw that photo comes off dark. I'd say if you were actually looking at it, the color is comparable to a lagunitas IPA.


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[hunter306]

Thanks KChrome, looks great. I pitched 1056 and got good clearing in one of my two vessels. Mixed, it's a hair cloudy, so I'm going to have to cold crash to get decent clarity I think. Mine fermented at about 62-65 degrees.

 

[kchomebrew]

Thanks KChrome, looks great. I pitched 1056 and got good clearing in one of my two vessels. Mixed, it's a hair cloudy, so I'm going to have to cold crash to get decent clarity I think. Mine fermented at about 62-65 degrees.

Cold crash 3 days is all you need and you'll be set. Also add a cup of H2o with a couple of teaspoons of gelatin to the keg or add to secondary when you cold crash if you bottle prime.


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[kchomebrew]

Mashing in. Productive day so far. Kegged a heady topper clone and added 2 oz of citra dry hops to the keg and bottling a saison and working on v3.0 of this beer.




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[hunter306]

What kind of changes are you looking at for v3? I'm already pretty sure my first attempt suffers the same argument the judges made at the top of this page... A bit too bitter for the style that I was shooting for. I think next time, I'll kill a few of the 60min hops and go heavier on the late additions. Also think I might toss a few crystal hops in as well.

 

[kchomebrew]

What kind of changes are you looking at for v3? I'm already pretty sure my first attempt suffers the same argument the judges made at the top of this page... A bit too bitter for the style that I was shooting for. I think next time, I'll kill a few of the 60min hops and go heavier on the late additions. Also think I might toss a few crystal hops in as well.

I'm omitting the bittering additions all together on this one and ramping up amt of late additions to pull in my bitterness IBUs and really intensify the aroma. Also lessening the Amarillo profile to bring out more of the mosaic and citra. Amarillo is too dominating


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[kchomebrew]

1.054 OG. Aroma is way more intense on the wort than I recall. Very citra and mosaic fwd. I sampled the wort and the bitterness is perfect. Right where I hoped it would be from the late additions. This will be a nice beer ! I am excited to see what happens.




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[kchomebrew]

Transferred v3.0 to secondaries today. Wonderful aroma already. Sampled a bit and this one has very mild bitterness and the citrus is more pronounced on this. Excited already for the final product. Am going to let this sit in the secondary for about a week and then will dry hop for 4 days, cold crash, and then keg with gelatin (probably kegging on/around 4/16).

 

[zardozap]

Here's what I'm planning to brew this weekend. I was able to get my hands on some mosaic, amarillo, citra, and simcoe pellets. Also able to get a few oz. of Citra whole leaf hops. Wanted to make a bright, crisp, citrusy/orange pale ale to drink during late summer when it's hot out. I almost considered zesting some orange peel or grapefruit peel with this but have never used mosaic hops before so I just wanted to appreciate what those hops can do without adding in anything else. If this recipe turns out well, them maybe the next incarnation will include some orange peel zest. On the flip side of this, was thinking a similar recipe with nelson sauvin/sorachi ace/galaxy would be interesting and use some lemon peel zest. Maybe some point down the road.
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Category: 10 - American Ale
Subcategory: A - American Pale Ale
Kettle Volume: 14.0*gal @ 212*°F (1.047)
Boil Duration: 1.5*h
Final Volume: 11.28*gal @ 68*°F (1.056)
Efficiency: 90.0%
Attenuation: 77.0%
Evap./Hour: 1.5*gal

- 2 tsp of gypsum to HLT
- 1.25 qt/lb mash thickness. Single infusion mash at 152F for 90 mins.
- Mashout to 168F
- 90 min boil
- reduce boil kettle temp to 180F for flameout/whirlpool hops.
- primary ferment 7 - 10 days, transfer to secondary/dry hop 7-10 days, cold crash near freezing for 2 days. Keg.

Ingredients:
17*lb (85.0%) 2-Row Brewers Malt; Briess - added during mash
2*lb (10.0%) Munich Malt - added during mash
1*lb (5.0%) Crystal 15; Crisp - added during mash
1*oz (9.1%) Warrior® (16.0%) - added first wort, boiled 90*m
.25*oz (2.3%) Citra™ (12.0%) - added during boil, boiled 10*m
.25*oz (2.3%) Amarillo® (8.5%) - added during boil, boiled 10*m
.25*oz (2.3%) Mosaic (11.6%) - added during boil, boiled 10*m
.25*oz (2.3%) Simcoe® (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 10*m
.75*oz (6.8%) Citra™ (12.0%) - added during boil, boiled 5*m
.75*oz (6.8%) Amarillo® (8.5%) - added during boil, boiled 5*m
.75*oz (6.8%) Mosaic (11.6%) - added during boil, boiled 5*m
.75*oz (6.8%) Simcoe® (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 5*m
1*oz (9.1%) Citra™ (12.0%) - whirlpool, steeped 30*m
1*oz (9.1%) Amarillo® (8.5%) - whirlpool, steeped 30*m
1*oz (9.1%) Simcoe® (13.0%) - whirlpool, steeped 30*m
1*oz (9.1%) Mosaic (11.6%) - whirlpool, steeped 30*m
2*oz (18.2%) Citra™ (12.0%) - added dry to secondary fermenter for 7-10 days

WYeast 1056 American Ale™

Original Gravity: 1.056
Terminal Gravity: 1.013
Color: 5.76*SRM
Alcohol: 5.63%
Bitterness: 45

Looks terrific! Also, your hop schedule is pretty much exactly what I use for my APA's and IPA's. The only real difference is the dry hop. I double dry hop. 1st half for 5 days, then 2nd half for 5 days. (removing the first hop bag and adding the second) I find it keeps from leeching any nasty flavors out of the hops, and kicks up the aroma.

 

[kchomebrew]

Dry hopped today. Batch 1 got 1oz mosaic pellets and batch 2 received 1oz mosaic pellets and 1oz simcoe pellets. Will let this go for 4 days and then will add in 2oz citra pellets to batch 1 and 2oz of citra pellets to batch 2 for 3 days and then will cold crash and keg both batches. Decided to use pellets for dry hopping to minimize oxidation potential.


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[kchomebrew]

Added in citra pellets for second dry hop. Will let these sit till Sunday and then cold crash for 72 hours and then will keg.

 

[kchomebrew]

I've read that typical dry hopping for IPAs is usually at a ratio of an ounce p/gallon. One fermenter has 3oz. and the other has 4oz. Wasn't sure, for a Pale Ale, what was appropriate to do so I opted to stay under that ratio.

 

[kchomebrew]

Kegged both batches today with some gelatin. Aroma is jump out of the fermenter awesome. I've never made a beer that pops with hop aroma like this. As soon as I removed the airlock and racked to the keg, the room smelled like citrusy hops. I sampled some as well. Not much bitterness at all but truck loads of hop aroma and flavor. Very crisp. Very very excited to see what this shakes out like when carbonated !


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[kchomebrew]

Tried a sample of the keg today. Probably needs a few more days of carbing. But Wow ! This is nice. Very faint to mild bitterness and hop aroma that jumps out of the glass and hits you with citrus flavor. Will post more notes once it's fully carbed and will add photos too.


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[kchomebrew]

THe beer finally carbed up in the keg this weekend and I have a photos. The aroma and flavor on this is fantastic. As soon as I pour off the tap, citrus aromas fill the room. Orange rind and grapefruit dominate the aroma and the taste comes across almost like a mimosa. I think I've finally nailed this recipe. Bitterness on this is kind of what you get in session IPAs. Mild bitterness with no harshness at all.


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[kchomebrew]

Last keg of this blew last night. It's been a good one. I've won several gold medals in competitions with this pale ale and it's also placed in BOS in some of those. Will be brewing this again soon. Will probably do this next time and split the batch with an english yeast (WLP002) and compare it to US05.

 

[pickles]

How did the one dry hopped with simcoe compare?

 

[kchomebrew]

How did the one dry hopped with simcoe compare?

I didn't notice them and they didn't make much of a difference. The citra and mosaic were very dominant. If I was doing this again i'd just stick to 2 oz citra and 2 oz mosaic hops per 5 gal. I guess it would be interesting to have dry hopped one batch with a simcoe and Amarillo mix and the other with citra and mosaic since all 4 hops were involved in this.


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[Bru-noob]

New to All Grain but this is a recipe that speaks to my heart. I've tried to keep up with the many revisions of this recipe like bumping the 2-row to 18lbs and dropping the Warrior.. I was wondering if the OP would post his favorite version of this recipe again for newbies like me that would love to brew such a magnificent beer.. It's absolutely mouth watering just reading about it and looking at the pics!

 

[jsledd]

Adding this one the the list!

 

[kchomebrew]

New to All Grain but this is a recipe that speaks to my heart. I've tried to keep up with the many revisions of this recipe like bumping the 2-row to 18lbs and dropping the Warrior.. I was wondering if the OP would post his favorite version of this recipe again for newbies like me that would love to brew such a magnificent beer.. It's absolutely mouth watering just reading about it and looking at the pics!

85% 2row
10% Munich
5% crystal 15
Mash 152f 90 min
Sparge 168f
Boil 90 min
Add Amarillo, simcoe mosaic citra mix at 10 min and 5 min to get about 25 IBUs
Flameout additions calculate about 10% utilization and add enough of the hop mix to get 15 IBUs
Chill aerate and pitch us05
Dry hop 5 days with .60oz p/gal of citra and mosaic mix
Cold crash 72hrs and then keg or bottle.


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[kchomebrew]

Brewing this one up again. In looking back at judging notes, I've scored very well with this beer and won several gold medals and even placed in BOS a couple of times. Comments that keeps surfacing is that the beer needs more crispness to the mouthfeel to make it more drinkable. Some of the judges have said it's too dry. Interestingly enough, the beer is often complimented on how well balanced the hops are for the aroma impression it provides. It seems like I take the biggest point deductions in flavor and overall impression, while scoring almost flawless in all other categories. There's never any comments about the hops, usually just picking on the malt profile.

Taking all of this into consideration, I'm going to tweak the grain bill a bit and make the color a tad bit darker and drop the ABV a little, as follows:
74% American 2 Row
18% Munich
8% Crystal 10

This will raise the SRM up by almost a full point and drop the OG and lower the ABV. I'm also going to split batches and ferment one with US05 and try an english yeast in the other. I think the excess alcohol in the beer was contributing to a dry mouthfeel. I still don't get what the "crispness" factor is. I always attributed a "crisp" flavor/mouthfeel to being well balanced and having a somewhat dry character to a beer. I must be wrong. Anyway, hoping to see what the malt profile and yeast changes do.

Also going to tweak some of the hop profile a bit. Going to back down some of the citra and mosaic, keeping amarillo where it is, and bumping up simcoe additions. In my opinion, I think most people (and judges) will identify with a more pronounced simcoe character in a pale ale.

 

[tagz]

Yeah, saying a beer needs to be more crisp and that it's too dry is a contradiction. If it was from two different judges, you're just getting down to personal preference. In which case you should defer to your own.

 

[kchomebrew]

Brewed today. OG 1.053. Went a bit heavier on the amarillo and basically used cascade hops in place of mosaic and utilized the cascade as the amarillo addition amounts. Sample on this one was nice. Clearly a bit different of a profile , not as "orangey". This will be an excellent pale ale and excited to see how this one turns out.

 

[Brew-Dog]

Sounds like a fantastic beer! The recipe seemed to have changed quite a bit, did you ever end up settling on a favourite batch? Did the different yeast contribute anything nice?