Alternatives to Cornelius/Future of Kegging

[skokott]

Want to refresh an existing thread and ask about the future of homebrew kegging.

Cornelius kegs are becoming increasingly hard to come by (and therefore correspondingly expensive if you can even find them.)

LHBS here is selling them for about $110CAD which is about $86 USD right now.

As supply dries up I imagine something will/already is replacing Cornelius ball lock kegs as the standard for homebrewers.

Does anyone know what the community is moving to, or are people simply holding on to Corny's for dear life?

 

[fuzzy2133]

Companies are still making Cornelius kegs for both home brewers and other industries. Stainless has a really long life time so unless you crush a corny keg there should be plenty used ones around.

 

[skokott]

Been looking on eBay, Amazon, kijiji (our crappy version of Craigslist), Craigslist, local Pepsi distributors and LHBS.

Cheapest I've found is $109 @ LHBS.

Ann Arbor's Adventures in Homebrewing is selling them $60 USD = $84 CAD (including sales tax), which just might be worth the trip.

LHBS are usually out of them and on back order. Just not a lot around and I live in the Toronto area. Not exactly low population density.

I didn't realize they were still being made. I thought with Pepsi getting out of using them it would drive up costs considerably in the long term.

From what I understand they were available used for $35 USD just a few years ago. :-(

 

[Brickman]

I am moving over to standard Sanke kegs. You do not have to remove the spear for cleaning if you get a tap head made for it and they are much thicker and just more robust overall. Even last night with brand new orings and poppets I was having issues with my corny kegs once again. I can now buy 1/6 BBL (5 gal) Sanke kegs brand new for the price I can get used ball lock kegs. Plus my friends all have Sanke taps so if I take a keg over I can hook it up in their kegerators.

 

[ZebulonBrewer]

It's the pin lock kegs that went out of production, which were used by Coca-Cola, I think (I'm really not sure here...). Ball locks are still in production, just not by the soda manufacturers. Don't shy away from used kegs. Unless you want them super shiny on the outside without any elbow grease, there's no reason not to.

AIH (www.homebrewing.org) has sales fairly often. Pay attention to their descriptions of condition, however. Some will require cleaning/refurb. www.kegconnection.com used kegs are inexpensive, cleaned/tested, and shipping is usually awesome. Like $8 per order awesome.

 

[stonebrewer]

Pin lock was Pepsi.

Ball lock cornies are not going anywhere fast. There are lots of manufacturers like AEB Italy and Torpedo making new kegs that you can get for as little as $80-90 US.

Half barrel sankes are a good alternative, however they are very heavy when filled and thus I think most people go with the lighter corny kegs.

 

[Newsman]

You can also buy brand new Ball Lock Kegs, although they are expensive. The new ones are very nice, though. I strongly urge you to try and buy "imperfect" kegs whenever possible. I picked some up relatively cheap because they supposedly had "ugly welds." Who cares as long as the weld is sound.

 

[BeardedBrews]

I think there are two camps for the next generation of Corny kegs:

Northern Brewer went with a modular can+lids design:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/big-mouth-modular-keg-and-expansion
It's a neat idea, but for me the "feature" don't justify the cost and complexity.

MoreBeer went a different route and designed something more like a sixtel with a corny lid:
https://www.morebeer.com/products/torpedo-ball-lock-kegs.html
For my money, I'd say that's the better design, and the price is more competitive.

There will probably always be a stream of new AEB/Itallian style kegs coming in, so I don't think there is any real liklihood that cornies will go away. As an earlier post mentioned, it's not like the things can really wear out.
http://www.kegconnection.com/five-gallon-keg-ball-lock-new/


Readily available $35 kegs are probably not coming back, but it is still possible to find deals if you watch craigslist and have patience. Keep in mind that there really seems to be "pockets" of used market homebrew gear. You might have to use something like http://www.searchtempest.com/ in order to find where the good stuff is hiding.

 

[mongoose33]

You can get a brand-new Torpedo Keg from MoreBeer for $89.99, shipping included (that's in the lower 48). There are two models, shorter and taller, wider and thinner. I have three of them, they're terrific. Lighter than the standard Corny keg, don't leave marks from the rubber on floors or counters.

I don't think Corny Kegs are going away. Sankes will probably become more popular--in fact, I'd expect they might IF craft brewers started selling their brew in them.

I don't know if this is relevant to the OP, but I'd keep checking Craigslist or similar. I ran into a guy here on HTB who was selling 5 corny kegs for $250, so deals can be had if one is patient. In fact, I may sell off one or two as I don't know if I need that many. Wait....WHAT am I saying? Of course I'll fill them.

 

[fuzzy2133]

I don't think Corny Kegs are going away. Sankes will probably become more popular--in fact, I'd expect they might IF craft brewers started selling their brew in them.

Like Drakes BREW-RHINO PROGRAM? scroll to the bottom for all the details.

 

[mongoose33]

Like Drakes BREW-RHINO PROGRAM? scroll to the bottom for all the details.

What an inventive imagination I have! Exactly like that. Not even a bad deal on the beer and certainly not on the keg. That's like getting the keg for $90 and the beer for $35.

 

[day_trippr]

Pin lock was Pepsi.

Nope. Coke used pin locks, Pepsi (and nearly everyone other than Coke) used ball locks...

Cheers!

 

[stonebrewer]

Nope. Coke used pin locks, Pepsi (and nearly everyone other than Coke) used ball locks...

Cheers!

Yup...brain fart.

 

[MaryB]

I remember swearing at the pin locks when I worked for McBarf as a maintenance woman... I HATED them because the cornies always had crappy beat up posts and I had to make them work and seal... Even our 200 gallon coke bulk tank had them to make it easy to transfer to cornies when I needed to clean it.

And that is a story in itself... the guy I took over from was fired for stealing. He was setting food out in the trash and pickin git up after work. Boxes of burger patties etc. Plus he was drinking the OJ i the cooler and trying to hide the empties... it was way to obvious, I mentioned it to the manager and he was gone an hour later after they reviewed security camera footage of him placing boxes of burger patties behind the dumpster. One of my first tasks was clean the entire soda system from back to front, lines all had been ignored, the syrup hadn't been calibrated and the coke tasted like water... I emptied the bulk tank, took the lid off and stuck in an inspection mirror. There was an inch of mold growing on the top of the tank! I almost puked from the smell and it explained the bad flavor in the coke. We dumped 150 gallons of contaminated syrup and bleached everything, then ran normal cleaner for 2 hours. I scraped and scrubbed that tank for a day... it was GROSS!

 

[dcrog]

Last week AIH had new ones on sale for 69.00. They had 2.5 or 5 gallon versions. I didn't need any or I would have bought some.
They usually run about 50.00 used around here.

Looks like they are back to 89.00 now.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I switched to sanke kegs and never looked back.

 

[SGTSparty]

Last week AIH had new ones on sale for 69.00. They had 2.5 or 5 gallon versions. I didn't need any or I would have bought some.
They usually run about 50.00 used around here.

Looks like they are back to 89.00 now.

I saw this too, the used ones were down to 40 bucks, unfortunately by the time I got my gift card for Father's Day the sale had ended

 

[makisupapolice14]

^shipping ends up adding a bunch onto these kegs though.
I prefer to not spend more than $45 total for a used clean corny. The aih used ones stated they may not be clean.

 

[kh54s10]

The $35 mentioned was not a couple of years ago. I got my kegging going about 3 1/2 years ago and there was nothing under $45 in this area. Now the only way to get under $60 for used kegs it to get very lucky and find either someone who doesn't know what they have or someone who is very motivated to get rid of them.

As soon as you add shipping to most online buys it is no longer a good buy unless you get a great sale or bogo. And even those sales are getting more expensive.

I have seen the cost of the new AEB kegs and others drop over the past few years. They used to be over $110 almost everywhere.

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

I use the 1/6 bbl Sanke kegs, always have. As Brickman already pointed out, they're thicker and heavy duty, don't ever leak, and it's possible to clean them without disassembly. My LHBS sells new ones for $95. No-brainer IMHO.

 

[SGTSparty]

^shipping ends up adding a bunch onto these kegs though.
I prefer to not spend more than $45 total for a used clean corny. The aih used ones stated they may not be clean.

This is true. All 4 of my kegs are from AIH and were purchased used. they all still had pop/soda liquid or residue in them when I got them and had to be cleaned. They did however clean very easily and quickly.

for those who are a little more flexible they have a sale going on now, i just got an e-mail about: 4 used ball lock kegs for 179.99 not a terrible deal based on normal pricing if you're willing to deal w/ used kegs who need cleaning.

 

[dcrog]

I bought two earlier in the year from keg connection for 99.95 and 7.95 dollars shipping for the pair.

They were cleaned and soaked in a hot "Brew Clean" solution, re-rinsed, lubed and re-pressurized to check the seals. According to their product description. Plus a free O-ring kit besides the ones on the keg.

I liked them.

 

[MrFoodScientist]

Add to that the fact that local bottlers still use premix soda for special events (see: http://www.pepsicolaofthehudsonvalley.com/bristol/services/fountain-drinks/ under "Special Events"), yeah, cornies will be around for a while yet.

And yes, the average $35 cornies were about 6-10 years ago.

 

[woo_pig]

I was looking at 1000 ball locks recently. It was crazy .Got lost in a keg maze .

 

[Pantherjon]

Can pinlocks be converted fairly easily to ball lock? If so I have a lead on some pinlocks for a killer price!

 

[Brickman]

Can pinlocks be converted fairly easily to ball lock? If so I have a lead on some pinlocks for a killer price!

Depends on the keg make as there are 3 thread types. Some are only about $9.00 to convert. If it is not a standard they can be almost $30 to convert.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

Can pinlocks be converted fairly easily to ball lock? If so I have a lead on some pinlocks for a killer price!

Absolutely! But once you buy the parts to convert them, you are at or over the cost of the used ball lock. It's not cost effective. Plus, it's the size of the ball lock that makes it so popular. Tall and thin kegs work better for most people's setups than shorter and fatter kegs.

I've seen great offers (<$35) numerous times on converted pin locks before. I pass every time.

 

[55x11]

Add to that the fact that local bottlers still use premix soda for special events (see: http://www.pepsicolaofthehudsonvalley.com/bristol/services/fountain-drinks/ under "Special Events"), yeah, cornies will be around for a while yet.

And yes, the average $35 cornies were about 6-10 years ago.

Pin lock cornies are still available for $35 plus $7.95 flat shipping, see
http://www.kegconnection.com/pin-lock/

You can also get them cheap on craigslist. I never paid more than $40 for a keg (including some sub-$40 ball lock kegs I got earlier this year)

 

[Foosier]

I will put a plug in for Kegconnection too. I get their converted ball lock kegs. They started out as pin-locks and they switch them over to ball lock fittings with a pressure relief valve. They are a bit shorter and wider and less expensive. For me they are the only thing that fits in my fridge so it is a no-brainer. Definitely check them out.

 

[UndeadFred]

I actually like having both "real" "skinny" ball locks and converted pins as you only usually really only need one or two of the skinnies for all of them to fit in a keezer.. what I mean by that is, for example my 7.1 cu ft luckily can just make 4 pin locks, but if I put one or two ball locks in there then it's a loose fit. And guess what is better to put on the compressor hump.

I have several of the converted pins for about $45/ea shipped from on-line sources.. in the last two years or so... The balls were all in the $55 category shipped... wait for deals and sales.. free shipping goes a LONG way with these...

My favorite ones are the beat up ugly single handle Cornelius because 40 year old plastic handles don't need to be soaked over and over again in silicon spray to stop getting black on everything like the rubber handled ones are.

As for build quality? The Cornelius branded ones are the flimsiest... the Firestone ones are the toughest. I used to think the Pins were just more substantial than the Ball locks and then I lucked into a couple of local used Firestone Challenger ball locks.. it's the manufacturer, not the type.. literally the SS is a gauge thicker.

As for converting pin to ball there are two standard types, most are the "Firestone" 9/16-18 posts. Any "Cornelius" pin-lock will be 19/32-18 (new AEB are supposedly that too).. I've never seen any other type, but the "racetrack" type which are really old are different.

Most places sell the conversion kits for $10-ish, which is a good idea anyway as you want to do all the o-rings AND poppets when restoring a keg anyway, and a couple of universal poppets runs about $7 anyway.

As for going to Sanke? Yeah, doable.. that does have a whole another issue for sanitization.. once you get it down it is likely better but I like to see the inside of my kegs when cleaning, personally.... so the simplicity and appropriate batch size of Corneys are why they became the standard.

I suspect that the $70 ish sale price for new will be the upper bounds of the used market when all settles out. Expensive, yes, but likely you can get your money back out of a keg when you decided some day to sell it.