Alpine Nelson Clone Attempt

[BlurryEyed]

Blurry,

Thanks man! That hop schedule looks way more on point compared to what I just brewed, on paper at least (I havn't tasted the recipe I brewed yet). The version I just did had zero flameout or whirlpool hops which I found odd since Alpine's ipas have such massive hop aroma and flavor.

Quick question about your FG though: is it that high just because thats how this recipe comes out on your system or is that intended? I believe Nelson is OG 1.065, 7% alc so that would mean a lower FG, no?

Thanks!

My system doesn't have great efficiency, but if it did, it'd have a higher ABV. Those gravities came from BrewersFriend calculations. Sorry, no expert on that matter.

 

[hobomoto]

My system doesn't have great efficiency, but if it did, it'd have a higher ABV. Those gravities came from BrewersFriend calculations. Sorry, no expert on that matter.

Gotcha.

I was already planning on brewing the recipe I have a second time but skewed more towards a late hopping/hopburst/whirlpool hop schedule, similar to yours but I would have just been guessing on what to do. Thanks again for sharing whats worked for you. Can't wait to brew it.

I'm just getting into all-grain via BIAB and doing 2.5 gallon batches to dial it in. I bought a pound of Nelson and a pound of Southern Cross just to brew Nelson IPA variations until I feel I get it right

Batch #1 is currently dry hopping. I already have my grains ready to go for batch #2 so the grain bill will be the same as batch #1 but I'm thinking I will employ your hop schedule to see how that compares.

Just to put it out there, the grain bill I'm using is approximately 62% 2-row, 10% Marris Otter, 10% Rye Malt, 10% Flaked Rye, 5% Carapils, 3% Acidulated.

Thanks for the help again, looking foreward to dialing in my biab process and this recipe.

Cheers!

 

[BlurryEyed]

Gotcha.

I was already planning on brewing the recipe I have a second time but skewed more towards a late hopping/hopburst/whirlpool hop schedule, similar to yours but I would have just been guessing on what to do. Thanks again for sharing whats worked for you. Can't wait to brew it.

I'm just getting into all-grain via BIAB and doing 2.5 gallon batches to dial it in. I bought a pound of Nelson and a pound of Southern Cross just to brew Nelson IPA variations until I feel I get it right

Batch #1 is currently dry hopping. I already have my grains ready to go for batch #2 so the grain bill will be the same as batch #1 but I'm thinking I will employ your hop schedule to see how that compares.

Just to put it out there, the grain bill I'm using is approximately 62% 2-row, 10% Marris Otter, 10% Rye Malt, 10% Flaked Rye, 5% Carapils, 3% Acidulated.

Thanks for the help again, looking foreward to dialing in my biab process and this recipe.

Cheers!

I love BIAB! I've gotten much better efficiency now since I wrote that recipe. I double-mill my grains and also do a full volume mash (about 8.5 gal for a 5.5 gal batch). I did a SMaSH recently and achieved 70%, which I'm perfectly content with.

 

[hobomoto]

Blurry,

Ok so I cracked into the batch I brewed with your hop schedule and it was pretty intense! Like over the top Nelsony which I've never experienced before and quite a different character than the Alpine version.

I recently started kegging and doing CO2 transfers to the purged kegs and I have to say it has upped my IPA game immensely. I've never been able to get this amount of character before.

I had brewed the beer for a bbq and it all got drank at the 4 wk mark (2 wk primary, 1 wk dy hop in primary, and 1 week in keg)... I am left wondering if it would have came into its own after some mellowing, say around the 6 wk mark...

As it was, it was all fruit: mango, lemon and almost cloying white grape/nelsonyness... with none of the dankness I used to get from Alpine Nelson. Maybe with time it would have changed and shifted balance a bit.

I'll have to brew this again and wait a bit. I also have it on good authority that Alpine dry hops at 46 degrees F... this may lend the character I'm looking for. Can't wait to experiment again.

Thanks again!

 

[BlurryEyed]

Blurry,

Ok so I cracked into the batch I brewed with your hop schedule and it was pretty intense! Like over the top Nelsony which I've never experienced before and quite a different character than the Alpine version.

I recently started kegging and doing CO2 transfers to the purged kegs and I have to say it has upped my IPA game immensely. I've never been able to get this amount of character before.

I had brewed the beer for a bbq and it all got drank at the 4 wk mark (2 wk primary, 1 wk dy hop in primary, and 1 week in keg)... I am left wondering if it would have came into its own after some mellowing, say around the 6 wk mark...

As it was, it was all fruit: mango, lemon and almost cloying white grape/nelsonyness... with none of the dankness I used to get from Alpine Nelson. Maybe with time it would have changed and shifted balance a bit.

I'll have to brew this again and wait a bit. I also have it on good authority that Alpine dry hops at 46 degrees F... this may lend the character I'm looking for. Can't wait to experiment again.

Thanks again!

Right on! I don't think anything can be too hoppy for me haha but I do let mine mature a couple weeks in the keg. I only have 2 people in the household and the other drinks more wine than beer.

Can we see a pic of your final product? Curious to the amount of haze you got, which is to be expected with this brew.

Also - when did you taste Nelson? It has changed significantly since Green Flash took over...

 

[hobomoto]

Think I must have first had it around 2009 and it blew me away. Incredible beer.

Tried to upload my pic of the beer but kept getting an error. I think it came out pretty true to the original though, color wise.

I'm very curious to try the cold dryhopping at 46F for two weeks. This info came straight from Pat in an email that was forewarded to me.

Hopefully they get it dialed in at Greenflash. Sounds like they are really trying from what I've been reading. Even spending big big bucks for a giant hopback(s) to recreate Alpines process on a larger scale.

Really good and recent article if you get a chance to read it:

http://goodbeerhunting.com/blog/201...xcept-the-focussan-diegos-alpine-beer-company

If you skip down to "November 2014" you get some insight into thier late-hopping process which involves a hop back and centrifuge, which Greenflash had neither of when they first tried to brew it there.

 

[hobomoto]

Figured out how to post a photo. Had to upload to photobucket then link it for some reason.

Due to the lighting the color looks darker than it actually is, plus this is the last of the keg and I transported it to a friends house two days prior which stirred up the yeast sediment...

Take it for what its worth I guess.

Thanks again for the help. Going to brew this again tomorrow!

 

[2talljones]

Blurryeyed thanks for the recipe. I will be attempting this clone at the big brew day this year for my club. Love Alpine Nelson and have been looking for a recipe to try it on my own. Had Nelson on tap at Stone a few years back and was in love on my first sip. Have never had anything like it since.

 

[BlurryEyed]

Blurryeyed thanks for the recipe. I will be attempting this clone at the big brew day this year for my club. Love Alpine Nelson and have been looking for a recipe to try it on my own. Had Nelson on tap at Stone a few years back and was in love on my first sip. Have never had anything like it since.

Right on! Let us know how ya do

 

[Shenanigans]

I know it wouldn't be a clone anymore but has anyone tried this with Soarchi Ace?
I just want to brew a good beer and I have half a pound of it but no Southern Cross.
It has been suggested as a sub for Southern Cross on several sites.

 

[jolopez1026]

IMO southern cross is an underated hop in the recipe. About a year ago Alpine was doing variations of Nelson recipe. Keeping the Southern Cross but subbing out Nelson, with Galaxy , Green Bullet. Galaxy version was amazing and the best GF brewed version of Nelson. Green bullet a bit underwhelming

 

[jolopez1026]

getting ready to brew this again. Cant find Nelson at a decent price gonna try using Galaxy instead

 

[Shenanigans]

IMO southern cross is an underated hop in the recipe. About a year ago Alpine was doing variations of Nelson recipe. Keeping the Southern Cross but subbing out Nelson, with Galaxy , Green Bullet. Galaxy version was amazing and the best GF brewed version of Nelson. Green bullet a bit underwhelming

Cool sounds good.

I found this recipe looking for something good to brew with Nelson "IF" I splash out and buy some. However, I might give it a go Soarchi Ace and Galaxy as I have half a pound of Soarchi and about 5oz of Galaxy.
Will take a while to get to it though.

 

[Shenanigans]

Cool sounds good.

I found this recipe looking for something good to brew with Nelson "IF" I splash out and buy some. However, I might give it a go Soarchi Ace and Galaxy as I have half a pound of Soarchi and about 5oz of Galaxy.
Will take a while to get to it though.

So I got a pound of Nelson but I don't know how this will turn out with Soarchi Ace instead of Southern Cross.

I've actually never brewed with any of these 3 hops yet.

Anyway I'm going to do a half batch (2.5 gallons) with Soarchi and Nelson on the weekend to see if I like it.
I can't compare to the original but will report back in about a month

 

[missigsfan]

So I got a pound of Nelson but I don't know how this will turn out with Soarchi Ace instead of Southern Cross.

I've actually never brewed with any of these 3 hops yet.

Anyway I'm going to do a half batch (2.5 gallons) with Soarchi and Nelson on the weekend to see if I like it.
I can't compare to the original but will report back in about a month

Sorachi Ace will be kinda weird. It tastes like dill to me. Galaxy would work really well with the Nelson but would come out a bit different from Alpine Nelson. If you don't mind ordering online Yakima Valley has Southern Cross for a reasonable price. http://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/NZ_Southern_Cross_8oz_p/hopsnzsoutherncross2-2016crop.htm

 

[Shenanigans]

Sorachi Ace will be kinda weird. It tastes like dill to me. Galaxy would work really well with the Nelson but would come out a bit different from Alpine Nelson. If you don't mind ordering online Yakima Valley has Southern Cross for a reasonable price. http://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/NZ_Southern_Cross_8oz_p/hopsnzsoutherncross2-2016crop.htm

Thanks for the warning with Sorachi Ace.
I actually have a pile of hops in the freezer that I want to use up rather than buying new ones.

I have seen on a few websites that Soarchi is a good sub for Southern cross but maybe you are right that it might be a bit weird. Still haven't brewed with it.
I also saw Simcoe and Northern Brewer suggested and a mix of Simcoe and Sorachi of 3:1.

I need to decide before Friday what I want to do.
It doesn't have to be an exact Nelson Alpine clone but a nice alternative hop to compliment the Nelson and Rye.

The fruity/dank hops I have in decent quantities are:
Cascade, Amarillo, Simcoe, Sorachi, Columbus, El Dorado, Ella, Northern Brewer, Nugget, Chinook, Mosaic, Citra, Centennial, Summit, Calypso, Vic Secret, Topaz and Belma.

I'm leaning towards Simcoe, mix of Simcoe/Soarchi or Chinook but would appreciate any suggestions/input

 

[missigsfan]

Thanks for the warning with Sorachi Ace.
I actually have a pile of hops in the freezer that I want to use up rather than buying new ones.

I have seen on a few websites that Soarchi is a good sub for Southern cross but maybe you are right that it might be a bit weird. Still haven't brewed with it.
I also saw Simcoe and Northern Brewer suggested and a mix of Simcoe and Sorachi of 3:1.

I need to decide before Friday what I want to do.
It doesn't have to be an exact Nelson Alpine clone but a nice alternative hop to compliment the Nelson and Rye.

The fruity/dank hops I have in decent quantities are:
Cascade, Amarillo, Simcoe, Sorachi, Columbus, El Dorado, Ella, Northern Brewer, Nugget, Chinook, Mosaic, Citra, Centennial, Summit, Calypso, Vic Secret, Topaz and Belma.

I'm leaning towards Simcoe, mix of Simcoe/Soarchi or Chinook but would appreciate any suggestions/input

Columbus would work really well too. Trillium uses it in every one of their beers for bittering and some flavor.

 

[Shenanigans]

Columbus would work really well too. Trillium uses it in every one of their beers for bittering and some flavor.

Sounds like a good option.

I had decided to just go with Simcoe and built a 2.5 gallon recipe in Beersmith last night.
Just now I wanted to print it and it's not there. I probably didn't save it correctly but I have such a long to brew list and lots of other recipes I have saved that I took it as an omen and I'm going to brew a Maine Dinner clone instead. I will get back to this sometime this year for sure though.
Thanks for your input.

 

[Shenanigans]

So 1.5 years later and I hear this beer has been retired since I last posted here
Anyway I have 200g (7oz) of Southern Cross now so I'm going to brew it anyway. Probably this Summer. Can't think of anything better to do with these and Nelson.

 

[jpb2716]

I am totally happy with my recipe for Nelson, it is delicious:

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.056
Efficiency: 60% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.066
Final Gravity: 1.017
ABV (standard): 6.51%
IBU (tinseth): 98.61
SRM (morey): 5.42

FERMENTABLES:
12 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (72.7%)
1.5 lb - American - Rye (9.1%)
1.25 lb - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (7.6%)
1 lb - Flaked Rye (6.1%)
0.5 lb - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (3%)
0.25 lb - German - Acidulated Malt (1.5%)

HOPS:
0.66 oz - Southern Cross, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 26.99
1.25 oz - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 10.19
0.75 oz - Southern Cross, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 6.11
2.25 oz - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at 180 °F, IBU: 38.3
1 oz - Southern Cross, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at 180 °F, IBU: 17.02
3.5 oz - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days
2 oz - Southern Cross, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Sparge, Temp: 154 F, Time: 90 min, Amount: 6 gal

YEAST:
Wyeast - American Ale 1056
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Med-Low
Optimum Temp: 60 - 72 F
Fermentation Temp: 68 F
Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)

I know I’m digging up an older thread but I’m back to revisit this one. I brewed this recipe three years ago as one of my first all grain brews. It was delicious then and I’m looking forward to brewing it again, having a lot more experience under my belt since brewing it the first time.

If anyone has any updates or suggestions, I’d love to hear them.

 

[Shenanigans]

I know I’m digging up an older thread but I’m back to revisit this one. I brewed this recipe three years ago as one of my first all grain brews. It was delicious then and I’m looking forward to brewing it again, having a lot more experience under my belt since brewing it the first time.

If anyone has any updates or suggestions, I’d love to hear them.

I'm going to try this recipe very soon too.
Could actually be this weekend depending on how my starter for a Hop Hands clone goes.
I had some A38 yeast in a jar in the fridge for about 5 months and wanted to make a starter but it tasted a bit off/sour.
Not sure if it's because it's old and oxidized or if something is in there that shouldn't be.
I'll see what the starter tastes like in a few days and decide then.

If the starter is a fail then I will use good old US-05 and make a Nelson clone instead.
First time brewing it so no tips only that I might leave out the acid malt and use lactic acid to get the right PH instead.
What would be a good water profile for this brew? Just a normal west coast IPA profile?

Will report back after the weekend

 

[jpb2716]

I'm going to try this recipe very soon too.
Could actually be this weekend depending on how my starter for a Hop Hands clone goes.
I had some A38 yeast in a jar in the fridge for about 5 months and wanted to make a starter but it tasted a bit off/sour.
Not sure if it's because it's old and oxidized or if something is in there that shouldn't be.
I'll see what the starter tastes like in a few days and decide then.

If the starter is a fail then I will use good old US-05 and make a Nelson clone instead.
First time brewing it so no tips only that I might leave out the acid malt and use lactic acid to get the right PH instead.
What would be a good water profile for this brew? Just a normal west coast IPA profile?

Will report back after the weekend

Yes, a typical west coast IPA profile is what I plan to go with. I know Alpine claims that nothing has changed with Nelson since Green Flash bought them out but I completely disagree. While Nelson is still delicious, it has a lot more body and sweetness than what I remember the original having. I had some on draft a few weeks ago and it borderlined an NEIPA. This recipe leans more towards how Nelson was originally so a west coast ipa water profile is definitely appropriate.

 

[Shenanigans]

Yes, a typical west coast IPA profile is what I plan to go with. I know Alpine claims that nothing has changed with Nelson since Green Flash bought them out but I completely disagree. While Nelson is still delicious, it has a lot more body and sweetness than what I remember the original having. I had some on draft a few weeks ago and it borderlined an NEIPA. This recipe leans more towards how Nelson was originally so a west coast ipa water profile is definitely appropriate.

So I went for Ca 160 Mg 7 Na 24 SO4 245 Cl 66 SO4:Cl 3.7 Ph 5.35

The A38 starter seems to be OK but I'll wait until next month to brew the Hop Hands.
Just mashed in the Nelson about 15 mins ago.
I'll report back in about a month how it turned out.

 

[jpb2716]

So I went for Ca 160 Mg 7 Na 24 SO4 245 Cl 66 SO4:Cl 3.7 Ph 5.35

The A38 starter seems to be OK but I'll wait until next month to brew the Hop Hands.
Just mashed in the Nelson about 15 mins ago.
I'll report back in about a month how it turned out.

I forgot to check in with you sooner but how did this turn out for you? I’m going to be brewing it again next week. Looking forward to it.

 

[Shenanigans]

I forgot to check in with you sooner but how did this turn out for you? I’m going to be brewing it again next week. Looking forward to it.

Yeah I forgot to come back to report too
I've never had the original to compare it but it turned out great.
Nelson is indeed a unique hop.
It already tasted good as soon as it was carbed but after about two weeks in the keg it had improved a lot. Unfortunately I had drunk it all within 3 or 4 weeks

I never did brew the Hop Hands in the end because the harvested yeast got an infection.
I ordered a pack of London Ale III recently but will brew an Alien Church instead as I have a lot of Mosaic I need to use up.

 

[madscientist451]

I never did brew the Hop Hands in the end because the harvested yeast got an infection.

I'm fermenting a batch of Grisette with Saison Hands yeast from a growler I got back in February, but my real goal was to make a Sauvin/Moteuaka/Cascade session beer similar to one I had there last year about this time. I think it was called Adaptive Distortion. Any ideas?
I'm apologizing in advance for going off topic.

 

[Shenanigans]

I'm fermenting a batch of Grisette with Saison Hands yeast from a growler I got back in February, but my real goal was to make a Sauvin/Moteuaka/Cascade session beer similar to one I had there last year about this time. I think it was called Adaptive Distortion. Any ideas?
I'm apologizing in advance for going off topic.

Sorry I can't really help. With harvested yeast I meant from another batch I had brewed with Juice A38, not from an actual Tired Hands beer.

I live in Europe so don't get a chance to try out the majority of the beers mentioned on here.
I mainly just brew based on a beer that sounds like I would like it and not from what I have tasted.

I had a trip planned to Seattle next month with a list of about 50 beers I wanted to track down and taste but Corona will probably prevent that from going ahead now
I reckon some beer is getting old in the brew pubs now anyway.

 

[couchsending]

I'm fermenting a batch of Grisette with Saison Hands yeast from a growler I got back in February, but my real goal was to make a Sauvin/Moteuaka/Cascade session beer similar to one I had there last year about this time. I think it was called Adaptive Distortion. Any ideas?
I'm apologizing in advance for going off topic.

Grain Bill is pretty standard pils/raw wheat. Prolly finished super low so for 3.7% beer it could have even been a second runnings beer from a bigger recipe? Hop it like an IPA, use that yeast you have. Says theirs was fermented in an oak foudre which would be hard to replicate.

Also hard to get their level of hops. Jean hand selects in NZ and what’s available to homebrewers prolly isn’t that close. Also keep in mind that’s NZ Cascade or “Taiheke” which is way different than US Cascade.

 

[zvibloom613]

This is a huge post and I find it a little difficult to follow/remember everything. Is there anyone that can provide a 5 or 10 gallon batch recipe for Nelson clone that they tried and are quite satisfied with.