Alpine Nelson Clone Attempt

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
In the video Alpine is shown using a product called Clarity Ferm, this could be the reason why there is not as much hop haze in their final product compared to yours.

Otherwise, yes a good very cold crash around 32°F for a few days should knock 99% of the hop particulate out of the beer.

Idk man, this poured like straight orange juice.
JZJIDUk.jpg
 
Do you guys think Conan yeast would work well with the Nelson/Southern Cross combo, or should I stick with California Ale Yeast?
 
Do you guys think Conan yeast would work well with the Nelson/Southern Cross combo, or should I stick with California Ale Yeast?

Will Conan work well, if not be an excellent pairing? Yes. If using, be sure to ferment around 63F.

Will I have an exact Nelson clone if I use Conan? No.
 
Idk man, this poured like straight orange juice.

Seeing this makes me feel better about my color...I came pretty darn close.

I had a friend (better brewer than I) review my clone..and he wrote a good synopsis here:

Aroma - Perfect, bright, fresh and very aromatic

Appearance - a bit cloudy, BUT exactly the clarity of the Nelson beer that I recall

Flavor - Very pleasing, hops are prevalent but not overstated. I was looking for a touch more malt to balance it out which I'm not getting.

Mouthfeel - Good carbonation and head retention. The mouthfeel is pretty good up front, but it thins out as it moves across my palate and doesn't linger (I'm being very picky), but that also helps you drink more of it!!

Overall Impression - I'm personally extremely impressed (and am REALLY trying to find things to call out). There are ZERO flaws in this beer (diacetyl, etc).

I WOULD buy this beer.
 
I had a Nelson on draft recently in Davis, CA. I can certainly say there is a noticeable difference between Alpine Nelson vs Green Flash Nelson. I was not impressed and very disappointed. Hope Green Flash sticks with the original recipe...you can see visibly it's not the same brew...

View attachment 1428816378442.jpg
 
They are starting to distribute Alpine beers out my way north of Boston. I have had Hoppy Birthday and Duet. Both tasted great, but I have to wonder if the green flash mass produced batches match the original well?
 
They are starting to distribute Alpine beers out my way north of Boston. I have had Hoppy Birthday and Duet. Both tasted great, but I have to wonder if the green flash mass produced batches match the original well?

After drinking the green flash nelson, I came home to relief with my own homebrew nelson. Much closer to the real deal than green flash...
 
I had a Nelson on draft recently in Davis, CA. I can certainly say there is a noticeable difference between Alpine Nelson vs Green Flash Nelson. I was not impressed and very disappointed. Hope Green Flash sticks with the original recipe...you can see visibly it's not the same brew...

They have to tweak the recipe in order for the beer to come out well on the GF system. They've been experimenting with fining and dry hop ratios to counteract the fining process, and even taking criticism from people. I heard they accidentally filtered a huge batch of it and it's coming out really clear. I had a pint today that was clear as hell and it was noticeably different from when I had it out of the bottle last. I was skeptical about the people saying it's not as good from GF, but I can certainly say they're far different now. GF is lighter in body, more bitter, and less aromatic. Alpine has the most unique mouthfeel for an IPA; really smooth and feels like you could chew on it, and less carbonation as well. Not very bitter either and the hops just hit you in the face. As for your clone, appearance looks spot on.
 
They have to tweak the recipe in order for the beer to come out well on the GF system. They've been experimenting with fining and dry hop ratios to counteract the fining process, and even taking criticism from people. I heard they accidentally filtered a huge batch of it and it's coming out really clear. I had a pint today that was clear as hell and it was noticeably different from when I had it out of the bottle last. I was skeptical about the people saying it's not as good from GF, but I can certainly say they're far different now. GF is lighter in body, more bitter, and less aromatic. Alpine has the most unique mouthfeel for an IPA; really smooth and feels like you could chew on it, and less carbonation as well. Not very bitter either and the hops just hit you in the face. As for your clone, appearance looks spot on.

Agree 100%. They need to work on their rendition of the Nelson...everything you stated sums up.my last pint of GF Nelson
 
I'm really shocked they would ship out a beer like that...especially knowing the popularity of the Nelson and shipping something that far off the mark...poor quality control, but I don't like discrediting GF...I love their beer


They should have labeled it "Half Nelson" or something haha
 
I don't think I posted this before, but here's what someone at GF messaged me not too long ago.

Alpine uses biofine to clear the beer, and the haziness varies depending on which supplier the rye comes from, from batch to batch. Although now it should always be the same supplier. We've always filtered a percentage of Nelson and experimented with several ratios. There's still some unfiltered Nelson in there. We use biofine like they do, and then DE and plate and frame. The size and large quantity make it impossible for us to replicate they're process and end up with similar results. I think we've hit it and have lost track of what was what when we did side by side blind. Filtering definitely affects the aroma but we dry hop the **** out of it to minimize that. Hope this helps. I wish I could set it straight and put people's mind at ease, but I'm not willing to throw it all out there on social media. The main reason it's looking clearer is our dining process is better now. Next time you're at Societe you light notice pupil is a little less hazy now too, because they're changing their fining process as well. Cheers!

I'd like to do a side by side from a keg and from a bottle to see how far off they actually are. I bet most of the difference is in the mouthfeel. I don't really believe filtering only affects aroma; there's gotta be a profound affect on mouthfeel as well.
 
*Bump*

So i'm going to buy my grains this afternoon to brew this up this weekend. I had pretty much settled on just trying all rye malt, but reading through this thread again, now I'm questioning that. Almost leaning towards 50/50 rye malt/flaked rye. Anyone have any final insight before I buy today?
 
New question. My LHBS was out of rye malt, so I bought all flaked rye. What would be the differences if I brewed with all flaked rye vs a mix or all rye malt?
 
Mtnagel,

Sorry, can't help. I just brewed this for the first time last week. I'll be pretty stoked if it comes out close to the original. Its probably my favorite IPA. I used both flaked and rye malt so I'll.at least let you know how that compares to the original when mine is finished.

That being said, did anyone continue to work on this recipe and feel that they got it dialed?
 
New question. My LHBS was out of rye malt, so I bought all flaked rye. What would be the differences if I brewed with all flaked rye vs a mix or all rye malt?

I was under the impression the flaked rye gave the beer its cloudiness, but I could be way off course here.

If my theories correct, you might have one cloudy beer, but that's how it is supposed to be. Give it a whirl and let us know!
 
Mtnagel,

Sorry, can't help. I just brewed this for the first time last week. I'll be pretty stoked if it comes out close to the original. Its probably my favorite IPA. I used both flaked and rye malt so I'll.at least let you know how that compares to the original when mine is finished.

That being said, did anyone continue to work on this recipe and feel that they got it dialed?

I was under the impression the flaked rye gave the beer its cloudiness, but I could be way off course here.

If my theories correct, you might have one cloudy beer, but that's how it is supposed to be. Give it a whirl and let us know!
I did. I brewed yesterday. I asked locally and it sounded like they wouldn't be hugely different so I went with it. Someone said flaked will add more body and a touch of spiciness. Someone else said malted has more flavor and more complexity. When I tried both options in Beersmith, the flaked added 1 gravity point with the same estimated FG. We'll see how it goes.
 
That being said, did anyone continue to work on this recipe and feel that they got it dialed?

I am totally happy with my recipe for Nelson, it is delicious:

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.056
Efficiency: 60% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.066
Final Gravity: 1.017
ABV (standard): 6.51%
IBU (tinseth): 98.61
SRM (morey): 5.42

FERMENTABLES:
12 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (72.7%)
1.5 lb - American - Rye (9.1%)
1.25 lb - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (7.6%)
1 lb - Flaked Rye (6.1%)
0.5 lb - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (3%)
0.25 lb - German - Acidulated Malt (1.5%)

HOPS:
0.66 oz - Southern Cross, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 26.99
1.25 oz - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 10.19
0.75 oz - Southern Cross, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 6.11
2.25 oz - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at 180 °F, IBU: 38.3
1 oz - Southern Cross, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at 180 °F, IBU: 17.02
3.5 oz - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days
2 oz - Southern Cross, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Sparge, Temp: 154 F, Time: 90 min, Amount: 6 gal

YEAST:
Wyeast - American Ale 1056
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Med-Low
Optimum Temp: 60 - 72 F
Fermentation Temp: 68 F
Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)
 
Blurry,

Thanks man! That hop schedule looks way more on point compared to what I just brewed, on paper at least (I havn't tasted the recipe I brewed yet). The version I just did had zero flameout or whirlpool hops which I found odd since Alpine's ipas have such massive hop aroma and flavor.

Quick question about your FG though: is it that high just because thats how this recipe comes out on your system or is that intended? I believe Nelson is OG 1.065, 7% alc so that would mean a lower FG, no?

Thanks!
 
Blurry,

Thanks man! That hop schedule looks way more on point compared to what I just brewed, on paper at least (I havn't tasted the recipe I brewed yet). The version I just did had zero flameout or whirlpool hops which I found odd since Alpine's ipas have such massive hop aroma and flavor.

Quick question about your FG though: is it that high just because thats how this recipe comes out on your system or is that intended? I believe Nelson is OG 1.065, 7% alc so that would mean a lower FG, no?

Thanks!

My system doesn't have great efficiency, but if it did, it'd have a higher ABV. Those gravities came from BrewersFriend calculations. Sorry, no expert on that matter.
 
My system doesn't have great efficiency, but if it did, it'd have a higher ABV. Those gravities came from BrewersFriend calculations. Sorry, no expert on that matter.

Gotcha.

I was already planning on brewing the recipe I have a second time but skewed more towards a late hopping/hopburst/whirlpool hop schedule, similar to yours but I would have just been guessing on what to do. Thanks again for sharing whats worked for you. Can't wait to brew it.

I'm just getting into all-grain via BIAB and doing 2.5 gallon batches to dial it in. I bought a pound of Nelson and a pound of Southern Cross just to brew Nelson IPA variations until I feel I get it right :)

Batch #1 is currently dry hopping. I already have my grains ready to go for batch #2 so the grain bill will be the same as batch #1 but I'm thinking I will employ your hop schedule to see how that compares.

Just to put it out there, the grain bill I'm using is approximately 62% 2-row, 10% Marris Otter, 10% Rye Malt, 10% Flaked Rye, 5% Carapils, 3% Acidulated.

Thanks for the help again, looking foreward to dialing in my biab process and this recipe.

Cheers!
 
Gotcha.

I was already planning on brewing the recipe I have a second time but skewed more towards a late hopping/hopburst/whirlpool hop schedule, similar to yours but I would have just been guessing on what to do. Thanks again for sharing whats worked for you. Can't wait to brew it.

I'm just getting into all-grain via BIAB and doing 2.5 gallon batches to dial it in. I bought a pound of Nelson and a pound of Southern Cross just to brew Nelson IPA variations until I feel I get it right :)

Batch #1 is currently dry hopping. I already have my grains ready to go for batch #2 so the grain bill will be the same as batch #1 but I'm thinking I will employ your hop schedule to see how that compares.

Just to put it out there, the grain bill I'm using is approximately 62% 2-row, 10% Marris Otter, 10% Rye Malt, 10% Flaked Rye, 5% Carapils, 3% Acidulated.

Thanks for the help again, looking foreward to dialing in my biab process and this recipe.

Cheers!

I love BIAB! I've gotten much better efficiency now since I wrote that recipe. I double-mill my grains and also do a full volume mash (about 8.5 gal for a 5.5 gal batch). I did a SMaSH recently and achieved 70%, which I'm perfectly content with.
 
Blurry,

Ok so I cracked into the batch I brewed with your hop schedule and it was pretty intense! Like over the top Nelsony which I've never experienced before and quite a different character than the Alpine version.

I recently started kegging and doing CO2 transfers to the purged kegs and I have to say it has upped my IPA game immensely. I've never been able to get this amount of character before.

I had brewed the beer for a bbq and it all got drank at the 4 wk mark (2 wk primary, 1 wk dy hop in primary, and 1 week in keg)... I am left wondering if it would have came into its own after some mellowing, say around the 6 wk mark...

As it was, it was all fruit: mango, lemon and almost cloying white grape/nelsonyness... with none of the dankness I used to get from Alpine Nelson. Maybe with time it would have changed and shifted balance a bit.

I'll have to brew this again and wait a bit. I also have it on good authority that Alpine dry hops at 46 degrees F... this may lend the character I'm looking for. Can't wait to experiment again.

Thanks again!
 
Blurry,

Ok so I cracked into the batch I brewed with your hop schedule and it was pretty intense! Like over the top Nelsony which I've never experienced before and quite a different character than the Alpine version.

I recently started kegging and doing CO2 transfers to the purged kegs and I have to say it has upped my IPA game immensely. I've never been able to get this amount of character before.

I had brewed the beer for a bbq and it all got drank at the 4 wk mark (2 wk primary, 1 wk dy hop in primary, and 1 week in keg)... I am left wondering if it would have came into its own after some mellowing, say around the 6 wk mark...

As it was, it was all fruit: mango, lemon and almost cloying white grape/nelsonyness... with none of the dankness I used to get from Alpine Nelson. Maybe with time it would have changed and shifted balance a bit.

I'll have to brew this again and wait a bit. I also have it on good authority that Alpine dry hops at 46 degrees F... this may lend the character I'm looking for. Can't wait to experiment again.

Thanks again!

Right on! I don't think anything can be too hoppy for me haha but I do let mine mature a couple weeks in the keg. I only have 2 people in the household and the other drinks more wine than beer.

Can we see a pic of your final product? Curious to the amount of haze you got, which is to be expected with this brew.

Also - when did you taste Nelson? It has changed significantly since Green Flash took over...
 
Think I must have first had it around 2009 and it blew me away. Incredible beer.

Tried to upload my pic of the beer but kept getting an error. I think it came out pretty true to the original though, color wise.

I'm very curious to try the cold dryhopping at 46F for two weeks. This info came straight from Pat in an email that was forewarded to me.

Hopefully they get it dialed in at Greenflash. Sounds like they are really trying from what I've been reading. Even spending big big bucks for a giant hopback(s) to recreate Alpines process on a larger scale.

Really good and recent article if you get a chance to read it:

http://goodbeerhunting.com/blog/201...xcept-the-focussan-diegos-alpine-beer-company

If you skip down to "November 2014" you get some insight into thier late-hopping process which involves a hop back and centrifuge, which Greenflash had neither of when they first tried to brew it there.
 
Figured out how to post a photo. Had to upload to photobucket then link it for some reason.

Due to the lighting the color looks darker than it actually is, plus this is the last of the keg and I transported it to a friends house two days prior which stirred up the yeast sediment...

Take it for what its worth I guess.

Thanks again for the help. Going to brew this again tomorrow!


20160320_172733.jpg
 
Blurryeyed thanks for the recipe. I will be attempting this clone at the big brew day this year for my club. Love Alpine Nelson and have been looking for a recipe to try it on my own. Had Nelson on tap at Stone a few years back and was in love on my first sip. Have never had anything like it since.
 
Blurryeyed thanks for the recipe. I will be attempting this clone at the big brew day this year for my club. Love Alpine Nelson and have been looking for a recipe to try it on my own. Had Nelson on tap at Stone a few years back and was in love on my first sip. Have never had anything like it since.

Right on! Let us know how ya do
 
I know it wouldn't be a clone anymore but has anyone tried this with Soarchi Ace?
I just want to brew a good beer and I have half a pound of it but no Southern Cross.
It has been suggested as a sub for Southern Cross on several sites. :tank:
 
IMO southern cross is an underated hop in the recipe. About a year ago Alpine was doing variations of Nelson recipe. Keeping the Southern Cross but subbing out Nelson, with Galaxy , Green Bullet. Galaxy version was amazing and the best GF brewed version of Nelson. Green bullet a bit underwhelming
 
IMO southern cross is an underated hop in the recipe. About a year ago Alpine was doing variations of Nelson recipe. Keeping the Southern Cross but subbing out Nelson, with Galaxy , Green Bullet. Galaxy version was amazing and the best GF brewed version of Nelson. Green bullet a bit underwhelming

Cool sounds good.

I found this recipe looking for something good to brew with Nelson "IF" I splash out and buy some. However, I might give it a go Soarchi Ace and Galaxy as I have half a pound of Soarchi and about 5oz of Galaxy.
Will take a while to get to it though.
 
Cool sounds good.

I found this recipe looking for something good to brew with Nelson "IF" I splash out and buy some. However, I might give it a go Soarchi Ace and Galaxy as I have half a pound of Soarchi and about 5oz of Galaxy.
Will take a while to get to it though.

So I got a pound of Nelson but I don't know how this will turn out with Soarchi Ace instead of Southern Cross.

I've actually never brewed with any of these 3 hops yet.

Anyway I'm going to do a half batch (2.5 gallons) with Soarchi and Nelson on the weekend to see if I like it.
I can't compare to the original but will report back in about a month :ban:
 
So I got a pound of Nelson but I don't know how this will turn out with Soarchi Ace instead of Southern Cross.

I've actually never brewed with any of these 3 hops yet.

Anyway I'm going to do a half batch (2.5 gallons) with Soarchi and Nelson on the weekend to see if I like it.
I can't compare to the original but will report back in about a month :ban:

Sorachi Ace will be kinda weird. It tastes like dill to me. Galaxy would work really well with the Nelson but would come out a bit different from Alpine Nelson. If you don't mind ordering online Yakima Valley has Southern Cross for a reasonable price. http://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/NZ_Southern_Cross_8oz_p/hopsnzsoutherncross2-2016crop.htm
 
Sorachi Ace will be kinda weird. It tastes like dill to me. Galaxy would work really well with the Nelson but would come out a bit different from Alpine Nelson. If you don't mind ordering online Yakima Valley has Southern Cross for a reasonable price. http://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/NZ_Southern_Cross_8oz_p/hopsnzsoutherncross2-2016crop.htm

Thanks for the warning with Sorachi Ace.
I actually have a pile of hops in the freezer that I want to use up rather than buying new ones.

I have seen on a few websites that Soarchi is a good sub for Southern cross but maybe you are right that it might be a bit weird. Still haven't brewed with it.
I also saw Simcoe and Northern Brewer suggested and a mix of Simcoe and Sorachi of 3:1.

I need to decide before Friday what I want to do.
It doesn't have to be an exact Nelson Alpine clone but a nice alternative hop to compliment the Nelson and Rye.

The fruity/dank hops I have in decent quantities are:
Cascade, Amarillo, Simcoe, Sorachi, Columbus, El Dorado, Ella, Northern Brewer, Nugget, Chinook, Mosaic, Citra, Centennial, Summit, Calypso, Vic Secret, Topaz and Belma.

I'm leaning towards Simcoe, mix of Simcoe/Soarchi or Chinook but would appreciate any suggestions/input

:mug:
 
Thanks for the warning with Sorachi Ace.
I actually have a pile of hops in the freezer that I want to use up rather than buying new ones.

I have seen on a few websites that Soarchi is a good sub for Southern cross but maybe you are right that it might be a bit weird. Still haven't brewed with it.
I also saw Simcoe and Northern Brewer suggested and a mix of Simcoe and Sorachi of 3:1.

I need to decide before Friday what I want to do.
It doesn't have to be an exact Nelson Alpine clone but a nice alternative hop to compliment the Nelson and Rye.

The fruity/dank hops I have in decent quantities are:
Cascade, Amarillo, Simcoe, Sorachi, Columbus, El Dorado, Ella, Northern Brewer, Nugget, Chinook, Mosaic, Citra, Centennial, Summit, Calypso, Vic Secret, Topaz and Belma.

I'm leaning towards Simcoe, mix of Simcoe/Soarchi or Chinook but would appreciate any suggestions/input

:mug:

Columbus would work really well too. Trillium uses it in every one of their beers for bittering and some flavor.
 
Columbus would work really well too. Trillium uses it in every one of their beers for bittering and some flavor.

Sounds like a good option.

I had decided to just go with Simcoe and built a 2.5 gallon recipe in Beersmith last night.
Just now I wanted to print it and it's not there. I probably didn't save it correctly but I have such a long to brew list and lots of other recipes I have saved that I took it as an omen and I'm going to brew a Maine Dinner clone instead. :eek: I will get back to this sometime this year for sure though.
Thanks for your input. :mug:
 
So 1.5 years later and I hear this beer has been retired since I last posted here :(
Anyway I have 200g (7oz) of Southern Cross now so I'm going to brew it anyway. Probably this Summer. Can't think of anything better to do with these and Nelson.
 
I am totally happy with my recipe for Nelson, it is delicious:

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.056
Efficiency: 60% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.066
Final Gravity: 1.017
ABV (standard): 6.51%
IBU (tinseth): 98.61
SRM (morey): 5.42

FERMENTABLES:
12 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (72.7%)
1.5 lb - American - Rye (9.1%)
1.25 lb - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (7.6%)
1 lb - Flaked Rye (6.1%)
0.5 lb - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (3%)
0.25 lb - German - Acidulated Malt (1.5%)

HOPS:
0.66 oz - Southern Cross, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 26.99
1.25 oz - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 10.19
0.75 oz - Southern Cross, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 6.11
2.25 oz - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at 180 °F, IBU: 38.3
1 oz - Southern Cross, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at 180 °F, IBU: 17.02
3.5 oz - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days
2 oz - Southern Cross, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Sparge, Temp: 154 F, Time: 90 min, Amount: 6 gal

YEAST:
Wyeast - American Ale 1056
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Med-Low
Optimum Temp: 60 - 72 F
Fermentation Temp: 68 F
Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)


I know I’m digging up an older thread but I’m back to revisit this one. I brewed this recipe three years ago as one of my first all grain brews. It was delicious then and I’m looking forward to brewing it again, having a lot more experience under my belt since brewing it the first time.

If anyone has any updates or suggestions, I’d love to hear them.
 
Back
Top