Allagash Curieux Clone

[dogbar]

Racked to secondary today with the three ounces of JB-soaked oak cubes. Have to say, I'm a little surprised at how smooth the sample was. If I weren't committed to the Curieux idea, I could probably be drinking this in a week or so.

How did you come up with the initial yeast blend? Just something that was on hand?

 

[1Mainebrew]

I wanted 2 smack packs of Belgian Ardennes, but the LHBS only had 1, so I asked for his recommendation and he said the wlp 550 was similar. So I grabbed them both and made up a crazy starter for this beast!

Yeah, this yeast combination results in a tremendously smooth tripel. I would make a tripel with this yeast combination again without the curiuex take on it. Its not hot at all and is drinkable right out of primary. Obviously, pitching sufficiently makes that possible, but its an amazingly good combination of yeast characteristics. I am actually drinking a glass of the clone right as I type!

I will take this as another opportunity to warn you against adding too much JB to the keg. You really don't need to add any, just let the JB soaked oak sit longer in secondary and you should be all set. If its still not enough, only add like 1/4 cup JB to the keg. Whatever you decide you will end up with a delicious clone. Its not like you couldn't tell the difference in a side by side, but its totally respectable! Thanks for your interest dogbar!

 

[1Mainebrew]

BTW, try this brew with straight NY cheesecake when its all ready- an amazing combination!

 

[nduetime]

I'm a little disappointed with my results. I followed (a mistake I'm not sure I'll make again) the recommendation of the LHBS and only used one yeast. I was told that mixing two types of yeast would result in one yeast taking over the second, essentially waisting money spent on the second yeast. It's been in the keg for about 4 days now and I'm not sure I'm pleased with it. Sure, my tastes good, but I know it can be better. It's almost too malty, like I'm drinking grain. Nothing I've ever experienced before.

I suppose I can let time do it's thing. I did a triple years ago and it turned out very "hot". I let it sit on some oak chips (without soaked in any liquor), threw it in a keg and forgot about it. I tapped that keg about 3 months ago after sitting for 3.5 years and WOW...talk about smooth. That beer along with my first taste of Curieux is what got me back into brewing. I'll have to certainly try this again, this time following the recipe/directions posted. Thanks again.

 

[dogbar]

I'm really not sure why so many LHBS try to stop people from buying two packs of yeast

 

[1Mainebrew]

You really need the two yeasts and the temperates to give the smooth, highly attenuated taste.

My father, who owns a brew pub, said recently that this beer is his favorite beer of all time. He's been bringing his friends over for a taste of this in brandy glasses.

Age is your friend with this beer. Let that grainy brew age for a while and your results will improve for sure. Happy brewing!

 

[dogbar]

Pulled a sample today after two weeks on the cubes. I didn't add any Beam to the secondary, following 1Mainebrew's advice, so it was just the soaked cubes.

I'm getting more oak than Beam at this point, but even that's pretty subtle. Cold and carbed, you wouldn't pick up on much of it.

Now that the yeastiness has calmed down, the higher alcohols are more obvious. My drinking "in a week or so" comment from before was off

Two more weeks on the wood, then the next tasting and a possible move to long-term aging in the keg, depending on where we're at.

 

[1Mainebrew]

If there is no bourbon flavor at all try adding 1/4 cup of JB to the long term conditioning keg. This keg that I added the 1 cup of JB to it was positively overpowering at first but has aged and mellowed amazingly well. That's why I previously stated "try adding 1/4 what you think you should.". Happy brewing!

 

[dogbar]

Yeah, I'm just being a little more cautious than usual here. I don't have much experience with adding oak or bourbon, and this is such a light flavored beer I would rather work my way there slowly than overshoot the mark.

This beer's going to need some age anyway, so if more of that time is spent letting the cubes do their thing, that's fine by me.

 

[1Mainebrew]

My only thought is that you might get more oak than bourbon flavor.

 

[dfess1]

Well you've convinced me sir. I'll be brewing up a batch of this this weekend in a marathon brew session. I have a 55 lb sack of Pilsen malt, and was looking for something to make with it other than the Schwarzbier I bought it for!

 

[1Mainebrew]

Well good for you! Make sure that you use both yeasts! Have fun!

 

[dfess1]

your lb of corn sugar, was that for the entire boil? last 15 min?

 

[1Mainebrew]

15 mins

 

[1Mainebrew]

Last 15 mins

 

[dogbar]

Kegged today after exactly one month on the cubes. The oak level is perfect, but I went back and forth for awhile on the Beam. It wasn't as apparent as I remember in the real thing -- although it's now been a few months since I last tasted it -- but as I added small amounts to the tasting glass, there seemed to be a razor thin margin between "still not enough" and "way too much."

Anyway, I went with 1/8th of a cup of JB added to the keg. May not be enough, but adding more is a lot easier than taking it out

Will post again when I have tasting notes.

 

[1Mainebrew]

I am having another glass and oh my word this just gets so much better with age! It's getting closer to the original the longer I age it at 36F in the kegerator. I'm very, very happy with this beer!

 

[dogbar]

This beer* is stupidly good. I wish I'd made 50 gallons, rather than five.

Ordinarily I'm happy to share the homebrew with anyone in the neighborhood who wants it. I take pitchers across the street for our semi-regular "get together and let the neighborhood kids tire each other out" Friday gatherings.

This beer will be shared by the shot glass, not the pitcher.

----
*I say "this beer" advisedly. I changed the recipe somewhat. Since I plan to make this beer many times, for the first attempt I ditched the CaraPils and corn sugar and went with 100% Belgian pilsner malt. I also mashed slightly warmer, at 153, because to me this isn't a thin beer. And as noted before, we did different things with the hop (by necessity) and bourbon (by recommendation) additions. So I don't think 1Mainebrew and I have made the exact same beer.

But a lot of that stuff is really just marginal adjustment and everyone's system is different anyway. The two keys I see are the dual yeast selections and the oaking schedule, both of which 1Mainebrew's recipe absolutely nails.

I'll be back in CA soon. I hope to be able to find Curieux somewhere so I can do a comparison to see how close the clone is. That will help determine adjustments for next time. Right now, I can't decide if I like where it is right now or if I want to try to dry it out a bit more. I think probably the latter, but I've already been told "changing anything would be crazy," so we'll see.

Thanks, OP. This was awesome.

 

[sacrifice]

Have not brewed a triple on over a year, so I will be doing this brew on Friday. Have the oak (French Oak) soaking, and did seperate starters for the yeast. The only thing I am going to do differently is use table rather than corn sugar.

 

[dogbar]

Ok, so I finally made it back to California this past weekend, which meant I could pick up a bottle of the real thing for a comparison tasting:

My wife and I started with blind triangle tasting (we each poured for each other). The beers were pretty darn close -- if not for the difference in yeast character, you could have convinced me that either one was the Curieux -- but distinguishable.

In this go round, there were five key differences:

1. Finishing gravity - As mentioned before, I brewed the recipe without sugar. The Allagash:

Was dryer than my version:

2. Belgian yeast character - The Allagash had FAR more Belgian character. This is where my fermentation options get me. I have a secondhand wine fridge I use to control temperatures. Unfortunately, it's only adjustable up to 65 degrees. I'm going to need to figure out a way to go warmer to match this beer.

3. Obviousness of the bourbon - I added just 1/8th of a cup of bourbon when I went into the keg, yet the Jim Beam is obvious as the glass nears your nose. In comparison, I almost had to fight to pick up the bourbon character in the Allagash. I feel like that hasn't been the case when I've had the beer before, so maybe the past couple weeks of drinking my version have re-set my palate? Or perhaps they have some batch-to-batch variation.

4. Clarity - Once we moved on from the plastic cups to actual glasses, the visual difference between the beers was pretty obvious:

The Allagash might clear if I let it sit in the fridge long enough.

5. My version doesn't set me back $17.99 for a 750 ml bottle - And at the end of the day, that might just be the biggest difference of all

 

[dogbar]

[double post]

 

[1Mainebrew]

You're welcome, and thanks for the complements. I'm so glad that others found this beer as enjoyable as I have found it. My keg is almost gone... I'm going to have to start thinking about brewing this up again sometime soon. Not that it will be ready any time soon, but at least it could be in the works!

 

[Rehlgood]

This looks like a great beer. Curieux is one of my favorites! I have decided to brew this as my first leap into AG.

I do have one question though. I like to bottle big tasty beers like this so they last a little longer and can be saved for special occasions. What should I prime this with and how much of it. Thanks in advance for any help and thank you for this great recipe. I can't wait to get cookin!

 

[1Mainebrew]

5 oz priming sugar like corn sugar would work.

 

[stevehollx]

This looks like a great beer. Curieux is one of my favorites! I have decided to brew this as my first leap into AG.

I do have one question though. I like to bottle big tasty beers like this so they last a little longer and can be saved for special occasions. What should I prime this with and how much of it. Thanks in advance for any help and thank you for this great recipe. I can't wait to get cookin!

I carb my Belgian beers to just shy of 3 volumes. For a 5 gallon batch stored at room temp, that's 5.9oz.

 

[Rehlgood]

Would Belgian candy sugar be better than corn sugar?

 

[Jaybird]

I have to taste this beer!

 

[stevehollx]

Would Belgian candy sugar be better than corn sugar?

Nah. For dubbels/quads you want the candi syrup (carmelized beet sugar) for color/flavor, but clear rock candy is no different from corn sugar. Save your money.

 

[1Mainebrew]

Well you've convinced me sir. I'll be brewing up a batch of this this weekend in a marathon brew session. I have a 55 lb sack of Pilsen malt, and was looking for something to make with it other than the Schwarzbier I bought it for!

So how's it coming?

 

[dfess1]

So how's it coming?

ha! So I've had the oak cubes soaking in Jim Beam for the past 2 months. Just haven't made the damn beer!!