All my IPAs taste the same

[m3n00b]

I've done both methods of dry hopping. At room temp in the carboy and in a keg while on draft.

....and??? Any differences you care to share?

 

[jabergess]

Dry hopping in the keg cold the beer tasted greener - grassier. Plus every glass had little hop bits floating around. I'm sure if the thing had turned out citrusy I would have squeezed the hop bag when I was done with the keg. I've never had that grassy flavor from dry hopping in secondary at fermentation temps.

 

[JuanMoore]

Yes, but IME most of what it strips are the harsher flavors. If you're going for aggressive throat-burning bitterness, don't use gelatin. However, I've found that with these harsher flavors removed the fruity/citrus flavors shine through.

I've only used gelatin once, and had the exact opposite experience. Was a 10 gal batch, and I only used gelatin on half, which lost much of the floral and fruity flavors, and only lost a tiny bit of the harsher flavors. The other half without the gelatin was much tastier. Maybe it's hop strain dependent or something.

What cleaner and sanitizer are you using? Peppery/spicey notes for me came before I started using campden tablets to rid the water of chlorine(or chloramine, can't remember which). Since you built your water up on the last beer from distilled you can rule that out, but maybe the chlorine is still the culprit from your cleaner/sanitzer? Maybe there are something in your keg/lines bottles?

This was my initial thought too. Even the batch with distilled water could have been tainted if distilled water wasn't also used in the sanitizer solution for the fermentors and kegs. The chlorophenols caused by trace amounts of chlorine and chloramine often have a spicy or peppery flavor.

Cooling faster is ALWAYS a good idea.

How so? I usually use a modified no-chill method without any issues. I've also done head to head comparisons with the same recipes chilled to pitching temps in just over 10 min.

 

[m3n00b]

I had the same experience. I wont be using gelatin in IPAs anymore.

 

[jabergess]

I think you all have convinced me NOT to try gelatin! Though in my notes I had done that 1 time but I didn't note it as being any better or worse than any other IPA.

 

[jabergess]

Wish me luck, I'm going for IPA #14 tomorrow! I have a new immersion chiller with a whirlpool arm that should give me two things: 1) quicker cooling times and 2) whirlpool hop additions plus it should help me remove the cold break which I used to just dump in the carboy (assuming I even got any cold break with my slow ass cooling times.) I'm going to stay away from cascade this go around and focus on citra and one other not spicy hop - Falconers Flight perhaps, even though it has citra in it. Hmmm. Maybe Soriachi Ace. I'll keep my grain bill simple - mostly 2-row with a little bit of Munich perhaps a touch of honey malt and I think I'm only going to do a primary fermentation and dry hop in there. Oh and I plan on mashing at 150. Someone recommended a 90 minute mash so I'll go for that as well. I'm using RO water this go around and will add chemicals for a hoppy, pale beer. I also checked my house water profile that I use for cleaning and they don't treat with chloramines here so that made me happy. I will report back post haste!

 

[smccarter]

Almost all IPA's taste the same. Call it American Pale Ale, American IPA, etc... and hop the ever living S... out of it with cascade and what do you get?

The same beer that everyone else is brewing in America.

Has it really come to this? That we are a hops nation? America = way hoppy beer? Don't get me wrong, I like a hoppy American pale ale or IPA occasionally, but is that all we've got? We really need to come up with styles that represent more than just over the top bitter hoppy beer.

Am I alone?

 

[jabergess]

Almost all IPA's taste the same. Call it American Pale Ale, American IPA, etc... and hop the ever living S... out of it with cascade and what do you get?

The same beer that everyone else is brewing in America.

Has it really come to this? That we are a hops nation? America = way hoppy beer? Don't get me wrong, I like a hoppy American pale ale or IPA occasionally, but is that all we've got? We really need to come up with styles that represent more than just over the top bitter hoppy beer.

Am I alone?

I don't disagree. However I know when I come across a GREAT IPA. They are few and far between in my opinion. So there is more to it than just hopping the **** out of everything. I've tasted lots of "World Class" IPAs and thought, well geez, that's what mine tastes like and I'm not satisfied with it.

 

[WissaBrewGuy]

Almost all IPA's taste the same. Call it American Pale Ale, American IPA, etc... and hop the ever living S... out of it with cascade and what do you get?

The same beer that everyone else is brewing in America.

Has it really come to this? That we are a hops nation? America = way hoppy beer? Don't get me wrong, I like a hoppy American pale ale or IPA occasionally, but is that all we've got? We really need to come up with styles that represent more than just over the top bitter hoppy beer.

Am I alone?

I too get frustrated sometimes that many brewers have to make IPA's in this country because they know that they will sell but America is MUCH more than just IPA's! We have the most diversified style access in the world with world class beers of all styles being brewed. We have our American versions of the Belgian ales (Dubbels, Saisons, etc) our American Robust Porters, the list goes on! Let me just say that if we grow the best citrusy, piney hops in the world we should use them just like all country's brewers use what is grown in their country (Nobel Hops:Germany as EKG:UK as Citra:_____) but in the US we have used these hops to redefine all styles and I am all about it. Go beer and Go USA!

 

[prohl84]

This was my initial thought too. Even the batch with distilled water could have been tainted if distilled water wasn't also used in the sanitizer solution for the fermentors and kegs. The chlorophenols caused by trace amounts of chlorine and chloramine often have a spicy or peppery flavor.

I think you solved one of my problems!

Almost all IPA's taste the same. Call it American Pale Ale, American IPA, etc... and hop the ever living S... out of it with cascade and what do you get?

The same beer that everyone else is brewing in America.

Has it really come to this? That we are a hops nation? America = way hoppy beer? Don't get me wrong, I like a hoppy American pale ale or IPA occasionally, but is that all we've got? We really need to come up with styles that represent more than just over the top bitter hoppy beer.

Am I alone?

You are not alone. Although I feel IPA when done tastefully (not super overhopped) is a style with as much diversity/ subtlety as any other. I told some people I met at a friend's house recently that I brewed my own and no joke the response was "So you make like IPAs?" I have made a few but they were not exactly what everyone in America is brewing. I like malt bombs personally.

Oddly, SWMBO likes the IPA (I tell her IPAs all taste the same -sarcastically- on a regular basis) otherwise I would rarely make anything uber-hoppy (I am sensitive/ allergic? to them)

On the flip side while there are certainly enough hop varieties available to be creative- hop breeders are developing cultivars (more or less) specifically for American style IPA so I think diversity will only get better in time.

 

[Epimetheus]

I'm gonna make an IPA with 8 ounces of Fuggles.

That should be different.

 

[jabergess]

Just Fuggles and 8 ounces of it?? You'll have to let us know how that turns out.

 

[jabergess]

So just to fill everyone in on my last IPA. It still was spicy and not citrusy. I did a massive amount of changes. I'm still on a search for that special IPA! I can tell you though after having had a lot of commercial examples, my IPAs are still pretty good AND most commercial examples are not citrusy either, even when they claim to be.

 

[tagz]

Maybe you should step back from trying to clone a beer, or make a big hop bomb beer, and make a few SMaSH batches. That way you can adjust just one thing per batch, and trace the source.

If you really want to find out the exact spot where things are going "wrong," the only way to do it is break down your process and analyze every step.

You need to find a process that works for you, and STICK to that process. I tried making a few big IPA's and they sucked, so I took a step back, and started breaking it down, and doing SMaSH batches so I could analyze how every step, ingredient, temperature, etc. was contributing to the final beer.

And a big perk is that SMaSH beers can be delicious.

I also think you aren't adding enough dry-hop. Biologically speaking, aroma (smell) is just as important to taste as actually tasting. Maybe you need to up the dryhop until you find a level that works for you. And there is no doubt that dry hopping changes a beer. I brewed an amarillo-vienna smash, and dry hopped half, and left the other not dry-hopped. The difference was astounding; so much so that the dry-hopped version has been drank and gone, and the non-dry-hopped is sitting around, and I don't think I'll ever drink it.

tl;dr-
Simplify your brew until you know what everything do!

+1 I had similar frustrations with my hoppy beers until I started doing small single hop batches. Hop variety played a huge role in my problem.

I found that some varieties that claim to be citrusy (Amarillo and ahtanum) were herbal and spicy when used in large amounts. I loved simcoe in smaller amounts as well, but a recent batch started getting catty with extended keg hop time. That said, I've found I can use citra in large amounts and I get nothing but clean juicy hop flavor. However, for me citra tastes better with a small addition of a secondary hop to keep from tasting too fruity/sweet. I've also found that I don't like how the hops taste with larger amounts of crystal, so I've reduced my crystal from 10% to 5% over time.

Like me, most of your initial recipes contain 3 different hops. It's really hard to isolate your problem with complex recipes. Hop variety may play a larger role than you think.

 

[thadius856]

I do enjoy a good single hop IPA.

All centennial is definitely my favorite (herbal/floral a la Two Hearted). All citra is pretty good too (citrusy a la Simtra). All Cascade is a classic (piney a la... ?).

 

[jabergess]

So if I were to do a SMaSH batch, would everyone recommend centennial or citra? Or what? I think when the hop is described as "piney" it tastes spicy to me. Thanks for the comments! This is really the only style that continues to be just out of reach for me to make exactly what I'm trying to make.

 

[RonPopeil]

I do enjoy a good single hop IPA.

All centennial is definitely my favorite (herbal/floral a la Two Hearted). All citra is pretty good too (citrusy a la Simtra). All Cascade is a classic (piney a la... ?).

a la everything west coast circa 2005.

if your IPA's are all similar tasting it helps to let them age for a week or two. hop flavors are stable enough to be fresh at 2 weeks but it also gives the beer a bit of time to mellow.

or you can try another yeast.

 

[tagz]

So if I were to do a SMaSH batch, would everyone recommend centennial or citra? Or what? I think when the hop is described as "piney" it tastes spicy to me. Thanks for the comments! This is really the only style that continues to be just out of reach for me to make exactly what I'm trying to make.

Centennial or Citra would be a good choice. Neither strikes me as piney or spicy at all. Centennial is more floral and a Citra is more mango to my taste.

 

[masonsjax]

+1
Citra and Centennial are my favorite varieties for aroma / flavor additions. I've got another pound of each headed my way as we speak as a matter of fact

 

[DrunkleJon]

Centennial or Citra would be a good choice. Neither strikes me as piney or spicy at all. Centennial is more floral and a Citra is more mango to my taste.

Yep. Mango sums Citra up for me. And not mango in the underripe christmas tree sense either.

 

[jabergess]

Ok. I bought the ingredients to make 2 SMaSH batches. One Citra and one Centennial. We'll see how it goes. I also bought a pH meter to measure pH because that's probably the only thing left I don't know about or have a gadget for.

 

[thadius856]

What grain did you pick for your SMaSH? Otter?

 

[jabergess]

California Select 2-row. Technically it isn't a "SM" because it will have a small amount of Crystal 15. I followed the recipe from More Beer for their SMaSH kits.

 

[tagz]

Nice. You'll probably learn a good deal from the experiment. One thing to consider... Citra is typically not recommended as a bittering hop. Some people experience unpleasant flavors from a 60 min addition. I usually bitter with a neutral hop like Warrior to keep my focus on flavor and aroma components. In fact, since starting my hop experiments I have moved to something like this:

25 IBU of Warrior @ 60 min
2-3 oz. of Variable Hop @ Hopstand (180* for 20 min)
2-3 oz. of Variable Hop @ Dryhop for 3-4 days

 

[thadius856]

Nice. You'll probably learn a good deal from the experiment. One thing to consider... Citra is typically not recommended as a bittering hop. Some people experience unpleasant flavors from a 60 min addition. I usually bitter with a neutral hop like Warrior to keep my focus on flavor and aroma components. In fact, since starting my hop experiments I have moved to something like this:

25 IBU of Warrior @ 60 min
2-3 oz. of Variable Hop @ Hopstand (180* for 20 min)
2-3 oz. of Variable Hop @ Dryhop for 3-4 days

This, but prefer CTZ or Bravo.

 

[jabergess]

I don't even know why they call it a SMaSH. I'm using Magnum for the bittering. Really it's a DMaDH, but that doesn't sound very sexy.

 

[mooshimanx]

I sense a big boom of flying hot wort as the liquid transitions to gas immediately upon touching the wort. Sounds like something to watch through a blast shield

But with the blast shield down, I can't even see!

 

[Cathedral]

Good luck!

I finally nailed my recipe, using everything I learned from doing SMaSH (and yes, DMaDH) batches. I just tapped it, and everytime I drink it, I can't help but think, "DAMN! This is good beer!"

...of course, everytime I drink it, I also think, "hmm... what would make this better?"

 

[rawlus]

Agree, start with smash so you've ruled out other variants and isolated to the hop and malt... All things being equal, different hops shod produce different results. Same hop used differently should produce different results. Start here and then get all crazy with the extra hop varieties and additional malts and grains.

 

[thielus_protar]

Don't take this as patronizing or insulting, OP, but how sure are you about what you are tasting? How is your sense of smell? I ask because when I'm a little stuffed or under the weather, hoppy beers tend to taste spicey to me and the citrus disappears.

Also, when I was first introduced to real beer most hoppy beers seemed spicey to me. I was used to MGD so that first Sierra Nevada damn near peeled my face off it was so bitter and spicey.

My point (without trying to be a dik) is that you may have a solid technique but if you expect something different than what is you may be chasing your tail. However, it is good to question and re-evaluate if you are unhappy with your results. If you just brewed the best beer in history but you taste it and say:"yeah, it's good BUT......."

Just throwing it out there as something to consider.