All-Grain for first time brewer?

[the_exbeeriment]

OK, I am a total n00b.

I have been reading (and learning) a lot about brewing over the last couple of weeks and actually borrowed a friend's setup to start my first batch. I want to make something mild, like a HefeWeisen in this first one.

So, I went to the LHBS yesterday but they were really busy and not able to help a lot. I told them what I wanted to do, and they just kind of pointed at the bags of wheat extract, said that I needed two of them, some hops and yeast, and I would be good to go. After looking around a little bit, I ended up leaving empty-handed.

The reason I left without buying anything is because I kind of want to do an all-grain or at least partial grain brew, something distinctly my own. I have some ideas in my head, and want to make sure they would be OK before getting the stuff.

Is going all-grain a bad idea for a first time brewer or does it just sound intimidating?

Thanks for any input!

Jeff

 

[Stile]

Is going all-grain a bad idea for a first time brewer or does it just sound intimidating

My .02 cents.... yes, it's a bad idea.

 

[Fusorfodder]

All grain has more variables you have to keep track of and for the first time brewer it would be a bad idea since you probably will miss some/most of those variables. The end result could be something that puts you off from brewing. Extract takes a LOT of the hassle out of it. The first brew day is going to be hectic enough even with a simple extract recipe. I would suggest finding a recipe or kit that involves steeping grains. You get a feel for maintaining temps while not doing anything that difficult. From there it is not difficult to transition to partial mash, and after that you can think more solidly on AG.

As far as customizing an extract beer, you can radically adjust flavors based on the steeping grains, hopping, and the yeast you use. I wouldn't worry about not being able to call something your own. Also, many all grain recipes can be converted to extract. Brewing software can do this automatically, and I personally love BeerSmith.

 

[kirscp]

I did one batch extract(turned out great), and will be doing my second as all grain.

Doing a batch of extract would give you an idea what to expect, but I really don't see why a person couldn't start out with all grain, being you have all the proper equipment.

Hit youtube and watch a few all grain brewing videos. Make you sure you understand each step, before your brew.

 

[zac]

I guess I'll go out on a brewing limb here. I did one batch of partial mash that cam ewith my kit, then by accident jumped to all grain. I accidentally ordered AG instead of OM stuff, so with a trip to the hardware store for about $15, I canverted my cooler into a mash tun, and kicked off my first all grain, which was my second beer.


It turned out GREAT! in fact, some of my best beers were the first few just b/c I was so worried about temps & such. Now I've become lazy at times. I always end up with beer, just sometimes not exactly the beer I was going for.

I made the leap to AG just by reading whats avaialable on this site. It's a wealth of info. I think you can do it. Find a detailed recipie here, follow it to the letter, and 2 months later, you will have great beer.

I have faith in you.

Zac

 

[Ballistic]

I am also a noob on my second batch and I must admit that I din't even know you could go all grain until I found this forum. I am learning so much using a prepared tin that I'm going to stick with it until I can get a consistent brew at different times of the year (as I need to bring the room temperature up and so on) and when I've perfected that, I'll see what else I can do. I am going to try to improve one thing each brew I make.

 

[boyurboy]

If you have friends who brew or a club near you, that would be a great way to start all-grain without doing extract first....use their experience and equipment to help you decide if you want to deal with the expense of going all grain before taking the plunge.

 

[The Pol]

It is more intimidating than it is hard... I have never done extract or partial mash, and found all-gain to be pretty simple. I read one Papazian book and that was all the experience that I had. Planning is the key, and knowing how you will accomplish each step. Dont assume you are going to boil 7 gallons of wort on your stove for example... make sure your equipment can do what it is supposed to do. Youll be fine.
You have another benefit that I did not, this forum, if you want to do all grain, do it. It is completely within the realm of success the first time, a lot of people do it. Welcome to the forum!

 

[fratermus]

Is going all-grain a bad idea for a first time brewer or does it just sound intimidating?

It can be done but it could be overwhelming for a 1st-timer on their own. If you had an AG brewbuddy onsite that would be a perfect way to start off with AG and never look back.

Consider the difference between learning to drive a car in an automatic vs stick. It can be done either way, but with the stick there is an additional set of skills to learn on top of the basics of navigation, lane control, traffic signs/signals, and speed limits.

So if you learned to drive on a stick I'd say jump right in to AG; you already know how to handle performance anxiety and whiplash.

 

[Bobby_M]

My advice would be to buy a kettle, burner and wort chiller large enough to handle 8 gallon boils (That's a 10 gallon kettle) and make your first batch as extract with a full boil. This will give you an idea of what the latter half of an all grain batch is like. If you find it overwhelming, do a few more like that. If it's no big deal, build a mash tun and you're ready for all grain.

 

[Revvy]

My advice would be to buy a kettle, burner and wort chiller large enough to handle 8 gallon boils (That's a 10 gallon kettle) and make your first batch as extract with a full boil. This will give you an idea of what the latter half of an all grain batch is like. If you find it overwhelming, do a few more like that. If it's no big deal, build a mash tun and you're ready for all grain.

This is a good idea, but if you haven't got the kettle/burner, etc, then do a few Kit extract recipes...so you can nail your brewing process down on a majority of the steps...then the learning curve when you do allgrain is less steeper.

I'm one of the few people who doesn't believe that ALlgrain is a magic bullet, or that allgrain = Great beer...I believe that a great brewer can make great beer regardless of the ingredients...and a lousy brewer will make lousy beer regardless of the ingredients.

I have tasted some amazingly bad AG brews brewed on several thousand dollar systems, who were more concerned about their toy and the fact that they were brewing allgrain than about their brewing process.

And I've tasted some amazing extracts, and even a few decent Mr Beer beers, where the brewer followed some of the stuff written about in the mr beer thread and paid attention to certain factors...

Read my blog on the subject...http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Revvy/Why_cant_we_all_get_along/

To me starting with a few kits if you are alone, is a great way to get the basics down..becasue the recipes as is are fool proof...that means that if your beer ends up sucking, it's not becasue of the recipe..so that's ONE variable removed from your trouble shooting..

THere are so many variables involved in AG, which means there are SO many places where you could screw up, so that makes trouble shooting what you did wrong so much more difficult.


Brewings a set of new skills...and it's a language to learn.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

My .02 cents.... yes, it's a bad idea.

All grain has more variables you have to keep track of and for the first time brewer it would be a bad idea since you probably will miss some/most of those variables. The end result could be something that puts you off from brewing.

Baloney. Baloney. Baloney.

There is absolutely no reason why you can't do AG from the get-go. I know plenty that have done it. Just do your research, and ask any Q's around here that you want. And maybe have your equipment-lending friend give you a hand your first couple times out.

 

[The Pol]

Baloney. Baloney. Baloney.

There is absolutely no reason why you can't do AG from the get-go. I know plenty that have done it. Just do your research, and ask any Q's around here that you want. And maybe have your equipment-lending friend give you a hand your first couple times out.

Agreed... it is pretty easy, there are only a few steps, mash, sparge, boil...

 

[postman]

Greetings,

Extract = Easier, less equipment.

Minimash = Pretty Easy. Same equipment, a little more time. I'll assume you can mash (soak) your grains in your brew pot.

1/2 batch All Grain = Same as minimash, except you don't combine with any extract. If you only use ingredients as a regular batch, it is easily doable. Just purchase a full recipe kit and divide it in half. At Northen Brewer, they have a few for less than $20, so if it doesn't work, there isn't much lost. You can do the same recipe a second time with the other half, just buy an extra dry yeast.

In fact Death Brewer wrote an awesome thread on Partial AG or Minimash, as did Reevy who posted before. I tried it, and loved the results. I use a modified version of the two methods. Equipment upgrade = nothing!

I chose to buy a 2 gallon igloo water cooler recommended by Reevy, but that is optional. I also purchased a larger nylon mesh bag so I could separate my grains from the wort (water from steeping/mashing grains).
I recently purchased a 10 gallon brew pot at a garage sale for $5. As soon as I buy a larger grain bag (or another medium one) I'll be doing full 5 gallon batches with the Brew in a Bag technique.

Recommendation: Do a couple extracts then jump into the minimash or 1/2 all grain, it's fun.

Just my 2 cents. Also, thanks Reevy and Death Brewer for your informative threads on mini AG / minimash.

 

[Cascadie]

From another noob's point of view, if you're pretty sure you're going to be doing this for a while, just go AG. The equipment is a bit more expensive at startup, but if you're not worried about the expense, my opinion is to just jump in, you'll wind up there eventually anyway.

The doing is more fun for me than the consuming, although I enjoy that part plenty, too. I look forward to brew days because I know I'm going to be at it for a good five hours, and I love the sense of accomplishment when I'm done.

Cascadie

 

[jeder212]

I started out AG, with NO experience in brewing. If you have taken the time to read all you can read, and learn all you can from this forum, then it won't be any problem. I probably read for 3 months with every intention of starting with extract, or PM. Somewhere along the way, I read a little bit about AG, and decided I could do that. My first batch turned out great, and is about all gone. I bottled my second batch, and brewed my third batch yesterday. So if AG is the way you want to go, then go for it. Just make sure you have learned and understand all the steps necessary, and have the equipment to do the job.

 

[Pete08]

Read both Bobby_M's and Orfy's all-grain primers! Both gave me the knowledge/inspiration to give it a go!

 

[postman]

Another thought. You can try ALL GRAIN on a 1/2 scale version for no expense other than a nylon grain bag. From there, see how much you like it. Pretty much no risk, but potential to make better beer. All you're doing is soaking grains for an hour, that's all grain in a nut shell. On a 5 gallon scale though, now we're talking a bigger investment of money and equipment. You can't go wrong experimenting on a small scale.

 

[Stile]

Baloney. Baloney. Baloney.

There is absolutely no reason why you can't do AG from the get-go. I know plenty that have done it. Just do your research, and ask any Q's around here that you want. And maybe have your equipment-lending friend give you a hand your first couple times out.

Ok ok, I just think the whole learning to walk before you run idea is just prudent here. AG just takes more diligence.... BUT, if you do your home work and invest in the needed equipment ( and read these forums ) You can have some great sucess.

 

[the_exbeeriment]

WOW!

First of all, thank you all for your feedback! I wasn't really expecting this big of a response.

While I think that I have learned enough to at least be moderately successful with an all-grain batch, I know that I have a lot more to learn ... and while I am learning more about all-grain, I may as well have an extract batch in the fermenter!

This will also give me an opportunity to go check out a buddy of mine's brewing setup. I think he does all-grain, but I haven't been out to his house yet to check it out.

Thanks again for all of your inpus!

Jeff

 

[Saccharomyces]

I did a PM batch, then did a full boil extract for my second batch, and did AG for my third (moving up as Bobby_M suggested). Each step allowed me to iron out the kinks. First batch was learning basic sanitation and pitching yeast, second batch I used my LP burner, big pot, and immersion chiller. Third batch added doing the mash to the process.

As long as you do lots of planning and make a checklist so you don't forget any steps AG is certainly possible early on, and the results will be good. Be prepared for a long day, and don't panic when things go wrong. I think I have had maybe 2-3 brew days out of 20 where everything has gone smoothly. The rest of the time I have forgotten hop additions, missed volumes, missed step temps, had stuck sparges, had my thermometer die right after doughing in the mash, broken my hydrometer before reading my OG, had leaky chillers, ...

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Some input from a fellow noob... long story short my first batch was done 11/01/08 and was a 2.5 gallon all grain spiced winter ale. It is QUITE possible, and with positive results.

I hit 80%+ efficiency, my starches were fully converted, I had no boilovers, I hit all of my temps, I didn't care that my airlock wasn't bubbling in 4 hours (I put it away and checked the next day at lunch time), etc. Only snafu was missing a spice addition at flameout. No biggie; will just add additional spice in secondary to boost the nose, to give it a bit more character.

Am I bragging? Well, yes, a little bit, and maybe prematurely. But the point is, it is doable. Personally I read Palmers "How To" for free online as the first foray into brewing period; then registered here, reread Palmer online, read here, purchased "How To" and read multiple times, read more on here, referenced "How To", etc.. When I got my equipment, I tested my stovetop to test boil-off rates, temperature rise times, etc. I tested all of my equipment similarly in advance of the actual brew day.

Basically, when it came time to brew, I was prepared.

The reasoning for AG right out of the gate for me was multi-layered, but a very practical one was part of it-- I had no pot over 6 quarts, no vessels to ferment, etc., etc. I literally had zero equipment. So I figured, purchase once purchase right. I figured if I do not like brewing, I can sell what I bought and/or appropriate for other purposes. In the end a family member also used to brew, so I inherited a fermenter, bottling bucket, bottle tree, hydrometer, etc... so the outlay was not as high, but the point is the same.

In any case though, I know my personality, and after spending literally months studying, I knew the likelihood of my enjoying this passion was strong.

So here I am, as someone not much further along than you, saying it is possible. However, I am much more confident in crafting an enjoyable brew because of the PREPARATION and STUDY that I indulged in prior to brewing; IMO those are at least equally important in the whole process of brewing.

Either way, you will be partaking in a craft that is as old as civilization and is highly rewarding; I feel this way and have yet to even sip (save for some of my fourth runnings) any of my "just rewards".

Good luck and Prosit!

 

[urbanguerilla]

My first batch was all grain. I say go for it.