All Brett beer fermentation start.

[derekm]

I brewed the sans le chat receipe from wild brews last sunday and pitched two brett strains from wyeast. I had no visible activity until thursday afternoon, and now it is chugging along just fine. Is this long lag time normal for brett? Thanks Derek

 

[ryane]

Did you build up a starter?

Those brett packs from wyeast are not meant for direct innoculation of a wort, they are much lower cell counts in them than the normal sacch strains

To do an all brett beer you should build it up to lager levels prior to pitching, if you do this youll see normal fermentation just like sacch

what brett is in the sans le chat, brett L and C? or B?

 

[derekm]

It calls for 3112 brux and or 3526 lambicus. I pitched both. Do you think the long lag time will ruin this batch? I made this because I stewarded in two comps where I did speciality beers and got to taste it. It took a second and a first three months later. I tracked down the brewer and he told me the receipe was from wild brews. He didn't use a starter but he couldn't remember how the fermentation went. Would you suggest racking at two weeks and pitching a new batch on the cake? Thanks Derek

 

[ryane]

Brett as a primary yeast acts more like sacch, it really needs the pedio, aceto etc to help break down those long dextrins to have the extreme attenuation seen in lambics etc, so you dont usually have to worry about bottle bombs, than being said, I would leave it sit awhile, on my all brett beers I generally go ~2mos before I do much of anything, although for my "clean" batches I dont touch them for ~1-1.5month, if you add oak etc expect a pellicle to develop and additiona attenuation to occur

I will say this though, dont expect to get too similar a beer to the one you tasted, even with the same malt bill and yeast, a wild beer will taste very different from one brewer to the next, heck even two batches from the same brewer will be very different

DO, temp, time, pitchrate etc etc can swing things one way or the other

What did the beer taste like? Id assume that the lambicus would dominate the brux, and it would be slightly tart and cherry like? My experiences with L are that its very fruity as a primary yeast, and a very quick/strange brett fermentation, Brux is more normal, and toned down and reminds me of fruity pebbles

 

[derekm]

I have a hard time with taste description especially when you put it side by side with 15 other specialty beers. It was very subtle mildly tart and effervescient. It seemed a little more funky in the first comp and mellowed nicely in the second. It was not really malty or hoppy but quite delicious and seemed to have a lot of suble flavors going on. All I can say is the couple of ounces I tasted really left me wanting more. Both judges loved it too, and at the end of the flight we all enjoyed finishing this bottle. Derek

 

[jgln]

I just did an all grain 50/50 2 row/wheat brew using Brettanomyces Bruxellensis Activator Wyeast 5112 and the directions said I can use it with a starter yeast or alone. I decided to go with the Brett alone and as I have read here it can take some time for fermentation to begin. I guess I am still confused as this is my first time using such strains and what is the difference to using or not using another yeast? I did a search and after some reading I wound up here and still a bt confused.

 

[jgln]

...and my next brew will be with Brettanomyces Lambicus Activator 5526.

 

[dreadnatty08]

I just did an all grain 50/50 2 row/wheat brew using Brettanomyces Bruxellensis Activator Wyeast 5112 and the directions said I can use it with a starter yeast or alone. I decided to go with the Brett alone and as I have read here it can take some time for fermentation to begin. I guess I am still confused as this is my first time using such strains and what is the difference to using or not using another yeast? I did a search and after some reading I wound up here and still a bt confused.

Like Ryan said, 100% Brett beers really need bulky starters (think lager size) for a primary ferment. When I do 1.060ish 100% Brett beers, I generally start with about a 1L starter and build that up to 4L for the proper pitch amount. I get fermentation going in about 12-24hrs like normal sacc. ferments. One thing you don't (should you choose) have to worry about is oxygenation. The three Brett beers I've done got no pure O2 outside of the moderate splashing during racking from the kettle. It's still undecided what exactly happens differently with a anaerobic vs aerobic fermentation, but I've had consistent results with the former. Good luck, and get ready for some great funky results.

 

[jgln]

Like Ryan said, 100% Brett beers really need bulky starters (think lager size) for a primary ferment. When I do 1.060ish 100% Brett beers, I generally start with about a 1L starter and build that up to 4L for the proper pitch amount. I get fermentation going in about 12-24hrs like normal sacc. ferments. One thing you don't (should you choose) have to worry about is oxygenation. The three Brett beers I've done got no pure O2 outside of the moderate splashing during racking from the kettle. It's still undecided what exactly happens differently with a anaerobic vs aerobic fermentation, but I've had consistent results with the former. Good luck, and get ready for some great funky results.

I pitched the Brett early Saturday evening and when I came home last night it was covered with "foam" on top and the airlock bubbling about once every 2 seconds, cool!
Any advice on how to use the Lambic? I think I am going to do that next. I will probably do the 50/50 and I am thinking of adding berries, maybe blackberries.

The smell coming out of the airlock is heavenly, to me anyway.

 

[Tonedef131]

Like Ryan said, 100% Brett beers really need bulky starters (think lager size) for a primary ferment. When I do 1.060ish 100% Brett beers, I generally start with about a 1L starter and build that up to 4L for the proper pitch amount. I get fermentation going in about 12-24hrs like normal sacc. ferments. One thing you don't (should you choose) have to worry about is oxygenation. The three Brett beers I've done got no pure O2 outside of the moderate splashing during racking from the kettle. It's still undecided what exactly happens differently with a anaerobic vs aerobic fermentation, but I've had consistent results with the former. Good luck, and get ready for some great funky results.

I am planning to do a 100% Brett beer next friday, how long do you typically give the brett starter to finish out? I am wondering if I should get it in a 1L starter now so I can decant that and put it into the 4L on in time to have it finish out. Also do you use a stirplate for Brett starters?

 

[B-Dub]

I am planning to do a 100% Brett beer next friday, how long do you typically give the brett starter to finish out? I am wondering if I should get it in a 1L starter now so I can decant that and put it into the 4L on in time to have it finish out. Also do you use a stirplate for Brett starters?

Try this out.
The Brettanomyces Masters Project

 

[z987k]

Try this out.
The Brettanomyces Masters Project

very nice link.

 

[B-Dub]

I followed his advice and fermented at 82 F on a stir plate for a week. Then I cooled, decanted the 90% of the wort and pitched into my beers. All the brews were showing signs of fermentation by that night.

For me, that was a good sign.

 

[dreadnatty08]

I am planning to do a 100% Brett beer next friday, how long do you typically give the brett starter to finish out? I am wondering if I should get it in a 1L starter now so I can decant that and put it into the 4L on in time to have it finish out. Also do you use a stirplate for Brett starters?

You can use a stir plate, but I'm not fortunate to have one. As far as I know, Brett really doesn't need to level of O2 that Sacc. does for growth (I could easily be wrong). Your method of stepping it up looks good, I normally gave it similar time (2-3 days) as I do for normal starters. But be sure to watch it and make sure it's fermenting well. Brett is also a very poor flocculator, so give it at least 24hrs to crash and decant.
Make sure to have a planned brew for the cake as you know those Brett packs are pricey and it's good to reuse them at least once.

 

[jgln]

I pitched the Brett early Saturday evening and when I came home last night it was covered with "foam" on top and the airlock bubbling about once every 2 seconds, cool!
Any advice on how to use the Lambic? I think I am going to do that next. I will probably do the 50/50 and I am thinking of adding berries, maybe blackberries.

The smell coming out of the airlock is heavenly, to me anyway.

Got up this morning and it was really bubbling and begining to come out of the airlock. I do not have a blowoff tube set up so I just put a towel around the carby to catch any drip. I just hope it doesn't start spitting while I am at work. Good this is GF gets out early today and can check it early this afternoon.

It is in a glass carboy so I need a theif to take a hydro sample which I do not have, but can someone suggest how long this is going to ferment?

I think I am going to do the Brett Lambic this weekend with blackberries. I told GF to pick up about $10 worth. Too much, too little?

 

[Tonedef131]

Well I got busy/lazy and didn't start the 1L in time so I pitched the back directly into a 4L starter last night and got it on the stir plate. The pack was pretty fresh and this way it will have a full week to ferment out before I will have to cold crash it.

 

[Tonedef131]

What temp are you guys fermenting these at? I have mine sitting right at 70F right now and it seems to be going pretty strong.

 

[B-Dub]

Went on the high side for temps and fermented at 82 F on a stir plate for a week.

 

[Tonedef131]

Went on the high side for temps and fermented at 82 F on a stir plate for a week.

I assume you are talking about the starter...I am talking about the beer.

 

[B-Dub]

That's what I get for posting before caffeine!

All of mine are in the garage on the foggy CAL Coast. Ave temp is low 70's during the day and mid 60's at night.

 

[jgln]

I figured I would ask this here since I posted about it here rather than starting anothe thread so here goes.

I finally did the Brett L. with blueberries. Since the fermenters I am using could not hold the whole 6gal I was left with I needed to use 2 fermenters. One is full the other 1/2 full, both still have the berries in them from the begining when I pitched the yeast. Anyway, I checked them the other night and the full one still looks like it did on day 1 less fermentation bubbles. The one that is 1/2 full has a 1/4 layer of whitish "stuff" on top. Do you think something went wrong with this one (too much air/headspace) or it has excellerated ahead of the other due to less volume?

 

[B-Dub]

Sounds like mine. All 4 carboys look like "normal" sac ferments and the cornie has a think white pellicle. They are all the same age and look different. Depends on the O2 level in the vessel.

 

[jgln]

Sounds like mine. All 4 carboys look like "normal" sac ferments and the cornie has a think white pellicle. They are all the same age and look different. Depends on the O2 level in the vessel.

Ok, thanks!

 

[jgln]

I decided to bottle the above mentioned Brett. L in the 1/2 filled carboy because the moldy looking stuff on top really looked nasty and I decided to throw in the towel and bottle it and see if it will turn out ok. 3 1/2 months old. I still have the full carboy that doesn't (didn't) have that thick growth. Keep in mind I still have (had) blueberries floating on top of each.
Well, just after 5 days in the bottle I decided to chill and try one just to try. It smells great and tastes great except it also has an off flavor which I think came from that stuff on top which may have been the blueberries getting moldy. I hope in time that taste will disappear and if it does I got some nice sour fruity beer. I can really taste the brett and it is good and distintive from the other off taste.
Now, here is my second issue. I checked the second carboy, the full one, and it too is now growing that stuff on top of the berries which may just be mold and not the Brett. L bacteria. So what should I do? Let it go? Remove the berries and let it go? Bottle this one too before possible mold infection? This is my 2nd brett but the first with fruit, the other brett I have aging just has a film on top.

 

[jgln]

Doesn't look like I am going to get an answer any time soon so this weekend I am going to transfer the beer to another vessel and toss the berries. Probably get an answer if I started a new thread bit I think I know what I need to do. The berries floating on top are just getting mold growing on them and I need to get them out of there if I plan on aging this Lambic the full year I planned.

 

[ChrisKennedy]

You know that Brett L is funky tasting, right? It has a barnyardy, horsey sort of flavor.

And it is yeast not bacteria. The "mold" was almost certainly just a brett pellicle, but hard to say without pictures or more information.

 

[jgln]

You know that Brett L is funky tasting, right? It has a barnyardy, horsey sort of flavor.

And it is yeast not bacteria. The "mold" was almost certainly just a brett pellicle, but hard to say without pictures or more information.

Yes and no. I mean that description is actually for Brettanomyces Bruxellensis and not the Lambic but having never brewed either I can only go by descriptions and yes I know they are known to be funky. My Brett B. is the one without added fruit and doing just fine. It too has a layer of growth on top but nothing like the Brett L., that growth looks like what mold on fruit would look like. I will take a picture of both and try to upload.

I have also read descriptions of Brett-Lambics having bacteria so I assumed that was an accutate description and I do know it is a form of wild yeast.

For example:

Product Description:
Wyeast Belgian Lambic Blend W3278: Contains a selection of Saccharomyces and non-Saccharomyces including Belgian-style wheat beer yeast, sherry yeast, two Brettanomyces strains and lactic acid bacteria. While this mixture does not include all possible cultures found in Belgian Lambics, it is representative of the organisms most important for the desirable flavor components of these beers as they are brewed in West Flanders. Propagator packs are best used with a yeast starter.

 

[ChrisKennedy]

Brett Lambicus is a strain of brett, like Saccharomyces Cerevisia is a strain of Saccharomyces. It is a yeast, a specific strain of yeast. Lambics have many different strains of brettanomyces involved, along with saccharomyces, lactobacillus, pedioccocus, enterobacter, acetobacter, and other various bacteria and yeast.

Brett Lambicus is a yeast. Lambics contain both yeast and bacteria.

 

[jgln]

Brett Lambicus is a strain of brett, like Saccharomyces Cerevisia is a strain of Saccharomyces. It is a yeast, a specific strain of yeast. Lambics have many different strains of brettanomyces involved, along with saccharomyces, lactobacillus, pedioccocus, enterobacter, acetobacter, and other various bacteria and yeast.

Brett Lambicus is a yeast. Lambics contain both yeast and bacteria.

So I am not sure why you are trying to explain this to me? What is the discussion here? I mentioned something about the Brett bacteria (leaving out the Lambic part) in my wort and you go on to explain to me Brett is not a bacteria but a yeast and then later come back and state that Brett L. contains bacteria. I just made a reference to what I was using as "Brett" while discussing the bacteria.

I am just trying to figure out if this growth on top of the berries floating on top is a mold. I have had Lambics before and have an idea what to expect but this is not it, not yet anyway and I do know this beer is very young. However, after bottling a few (I had 1.5 carboys full) and carbonating this has 3 distinctive tastes. The berries, the Brett L. and something else as an after taste that reminds me of what I would describe as what licking the lower half of a moldy, musty basement wall that has water issues might taste like. I love these beers and smelly cheeses but this is nasty.

 

[ryane]

So I am not sure why you are trying to explain this to me? What is the discussion here? I mentioned something about the Brett bacteria (leaving out the Lambic part) in my wort and you go on to explain to me Brett is not a bacteria but a yeast and then later come back and state that Brett L. contains bacteria. I just made a reference to what I was using as "Brett" while discussing the bacteria.
.

Your still confused

1. Brettanomyces Lambicus is a strain of yeast
2. Brett Lambicus (yeast) doesnt contain any bacteria, it is a fungi
3. Brett Lambicus is only 1 of many many yeast and bacteria that go into making a lambic beer
4. Lambics are a type of beer
5. There are no "Brett Bacteria"

I am just trying to figure out if this growth on top of the berries floating on top is a mold.

The growth on top of the beer is oxidative yeast and other bacteria forming a biofilm on top of the wort due to the presence of oxygen in the headspace

As far as the musty taste and aroma, this is what brett does, whether its brett brux, brett lambicus or brett c, they all produce various amounts of mousy,cheesy,goaty,horsey,sweaty flavors