Air compressor aeration

[501irishred]

BTW, silver solder rod is NOT cheap these days. Prices range fro about $130 to $200 per POUND of the stuff. very glad I had some I bought years back (over a decade ago).

True, but thankfully most places will sell the 45% fluxed rods by the stick for around $12 (at least wholesale, maybe ~$15-18 retail?). Even at that, I'm glad they tend to go farther per stick than most lower grades seem too.

 

[Golddiggie]

True, but thankfully most places will sell the 45% fluxed rods by the stick for around $12 (at least wholesale, maybe ~$15-18 retail?). Even at that, I'm glad they tend to go farther per stick than most lower grades seem too.

Hopefully, once I've gone through the rods I have, I'll have positive income and be able to get a pound at a time. I prefer to not have the flux coated rods since I can then use it for other things. I've used one (wish I hadn't tossed it out now) to act as a whip to aerate my first batches of mead (bent in half, locked into my drill chuck). I've also used them to repair pot list that had the rivets break. Simply cut a piece and peened over the ends so hold tight. Did that back in the late 90's and they still hold it together.

 

[bja]

I'm beginning to think this O2 tank from AirGas was a bad idea.

So far I've spent $160+ and if I've done my math right the AirGas cylinder, at one brew every 2 months, is going to last me 93 years. If I'd gone the Bernzomatic 02 and NB regulator/oxygenator route I'd be up and running now and I'm sure those red cannisters last long enough.

I agree. For probably $60 you could've bought the other setup and be done with it.

 

[stevescott123]

Shoot me a picture of the regulator... I was able to get a threaded fitting (to barb for the hose) from a welding supply store without issue. I don't think it's a 1/4" MFL thread, I think it's different. I know they had the plastic ones on Amazon, for not a cheap price. After cracking the first one (when clamping the hose on it) I decided that metal was the way to go. Cost me maybe $1 each at the welding supply store...

Photos of the Drive regulator.

 

[jcaudill]

I will add my 2 cents although this thread has progressed far enough it may not even matter.

#1:

Most commercial breweries use air compressors for inline aeration when transferring beer from kettle to fermenter. If it wasn't sufficient - why would they continue to do it?

#2:

It does not take a lot to condition the air from the compressor. First - you use reinforced beverage tubing - definitely not rubber air compressor hose. Second - you need a cheap coalescing filter to catch any liquid out of the compressor (which shouldn't happen if you use an oil-less and drain regularly). Then you need a HEPA filter - Heyes barbed capsule filter for example @ 0.2um. You only need about 20PSI flow and that is max.

#3:

The benefit of aerating this way is it's absolutely impossible to over-aerate. And it is more than sufficient aeration in most cases - German do it this way and produce some pretty big beers. Conversely, over-aerating with O2 is super simple and there is no good way to measure it.

I aerate with my air compressor - I also have worked in a commercial brewery that does it this way for 15BBL batches. It's fine - so don't get discouraged at all the talk that it's not enough air.

Actually - at VLB (in Berlin) they don't even use anything. They just let the wort splash into the fermenter.

 

[NMG318]

i would just as soon shake the fermentor than use an air compressor. you will not get more air in there than you will by shaking and the air running through the hose tastes bad. between shaking and pure O2 i went with the pure O2. i think my setup cost me about $140 for the cylinder/regulator (harbor freight) and the stainless aeration wand. the cylinder will last me for hundreds of batches, maybe thousands, i've had it over a yr now and it's still going on the same O2 fill.

Do you have to exchange your tank or do they fill it? Also, I currently use a home depot o2 tank with a regulator that I found at a home brew shop. The regulator has a small nozzle that I attach my hose and aerator to. How do you connect your hose to the regulator?

 

[stevescott123]

Initially you pay for the tank PLUS the fill. When (if) it empties you exchange for a different tank paying only for the fill. I figure mine's going to last 93 years. If you like you can have it when I'm done.

See previous posts regarding connection difficulties..

 

[eastoak]

Do you have to exchange your tank or do they fill it? Also, I currently use a home depot o2 tank with a regulator that I found at a home brew shop. The regulator has a small nozzle that I attach my hose and aerator to. How do you connect your hose to the regulator?

i bought my tank at harbor freight (i have another tank i bought from midwest homebrew supply) and get it refilled at the homebrew shop for $14 so i get the same tank back. i do wonder what the AirGas place around the corner from the homebrew shop would charge for a tank swap and might check out that option next time.

all of my connections screw on and off. i think it's more expensive but worth it for the ease of use.

 

[stevescott123]

AirGas Las Vegas 20cf tank $79.19, fill $20.28. Various fees and taxes total $113.53.

 

[BullGator]

I will add my 2 cents although this thread has progressed far enough it may not even matter.

#1:

Most commercial breweries use air compressors for inline aeration when transferring beer from kettle to fermenter. If it wasn't sufficient - why would they continue to do it?

#2:

It does not take a lot to condition the air from the compressor. First - you use reinforced beverage tubing - definitely not rubber air compressor hose. Second - you need a cheap coalescing filter to catch any liquid out of the compressor (which shouldn't happen if you use an oil-less and drain regularly). Then you need a HEPA filter - Heyes barbed capsule filter for example @ 0.2um. You only need about 20PSI flow and that is max.

#3:

The benefit of aerating this way is it's absolutely impossible to over-aerate. And it is more than sufficient aeration in most cases - German do it this way and produce some pretty big beers. Conversely, over-aerating with O2 is super simple and there is no good way to measure it.

I aerate with my air compressor - I also have worked in a commercial brewery that does it this way for 15BBL batches. It's fine - so don't get discouraged at all the talk that it's not enough air.

Actually - at VLB (in Berlin) they don't even use anything. They just let the wort splash into the fermenter.

Ok, so this thread started out helping me answer my question but has turned into a tutorial of how to setup an o2 system (not complaining, just an observation).

I have a 15 gallon compressor and have installed pvc lines running along the top walls of my garage with a few drop downs where I can connect air tools at different places in my garage. I thought of adding one where my keezer was so I could attach a ball lock air connector so I could clean my kegs and keezer every few months ( the 20 min flush with blc). Rather than waste co2, I thought using the compressor was a good idea. until I read this thread that is. Now I have about 30 feet of pvc pipe, plus the hard plastic yellow air line that the air has to go through before it gets to my keezer area. The compressor says oil free. So what are the chances of spraying oil in my kegs while I am flushing with blc?

Second question is can I aerate with this setup? I currently use the thing with the wings that you stick in the carboy and attach to your drill. Don't know how much oxygen is getting in there but after a few minutes I have a crap ton of foam on top.

Oh and I am putting a separate regulator for this line with one of those hepa beer line filters.

 

[eastoak]

Ok, so this thread started out helping me answer my question but has turned into a tutorial of how to setup an o2 system (not complaining, just an observation).

I have a 15 gallon compressor and have installed pvc lines running along the top walls of my garage with a few drop downs where I can connect air tools at different places in my garage. I thought of adding one where my keezer was so I could attach a ball lock air connector so I could clean my kegs and keezer every few months ( the 20 min flush with blc). Rather than waste co2, I thought using the compressor was a good idea. until I read this thread that is. Now I have about 30 feet of pvc pipe, plus the hard plastic yellow air line that the air has to go through before it gets to my keezer area. The compressor says oil free. So what are the chances of spraying oil in my kegs while I am flushing with blc?

Second question is can I aerate with this setup? I currently use the thing with the wings that you stick in the carboy and attach to your drill. Don't know how much oxygen is getting in there but after a few minutes I have a crap ton of foam on top.

Oh and I am putting a separate regulator for this line with one of those hepa beer line filters.

i would just shake the fermentor rather than bother with hepa filters and oil free compressors. if i was brewing 20-40 gallon batches that set up might enter the furthest reaches of my irrational mind but then i'd probably end up getting an O2 tank and regulator anyway.

 

[jcaudill]

Ok, so this thread started out helping me answer my question but has turned into a tutorial of how to setup an o2 system (not complaining, just an observation).

I have a 15 gallon compressor and have installed pvc lines running along the top walls of my garage with a few drop downs where I can connect air tools at different places in my garage. I thought of adding one where my keezer was so I could attach a ball lock air connector so I could clean my kegs and keezer every few months ( the 20 min flush with blc). Rather than waste co2, I thought using the compressor was a good idea. until I read this thread that is. Now I have about 30 feet of pvc pipe, plus the hard plastic yellow air line that the air has to go through before it gets to my keezer area. The compressor says oil free. So what are the chances of spraying oil in my kegs while I am flushing with blc?

Second question is can I aerate with this setup? I currently use the thing with the wings that you stick in the carboy and attach to your drill. Don't know how much oxygen is getting in there but after a few minutes I have a crap ton of foam on top.

Oh and I am putting a separate regulator for this line with one of those hepa beer line filters.

You just need to do what I explained above - you need to have a setup which accomplishes two things:

1) Removal of any liquid matter - coaelscing filter or Kobalt makes this great little cheap filter: http://www.lowes.com/pd_221024-47120-SGY-AIR10_4294813345__.

2) Filtering of the air to a very fine micron level (0.2um). I'll warn you these types of filters are pricey.

And then you just need beverage tubing capable of handling the pressure (which isn't much anyway), and a check valve so beer can't enter it's way back up into the line and filter.

I will say though I'd minimize if possible the amount of tubing (other than the beverage tubing) the air has to travel through before hitting this setup just to minimize any extra junk getting into the line.

It really is a very simple deal. I use air for aeration, but also to blow liquid out of my pumps and tubing when I'm done. You definitely can use it to clean kegs but you need to use it filtered as well, and you don't want to leave it in the keg. Your final blanket should be CO2.

HTH.

 

[stevescott123]

I'm trying not to be disappointed but I am surprised. I brewed yesterday and oxynated for the first time after a long journey to get equipped. It was at least 9hrs to fermentation activity and the bubbles though regular are not as vigorous as I am used to. I even put a blow off tube in expecting more drama but quickly went back to an airlock.

Oxygen is supposed to shorten the lag time and create a vigorous fermentation...

Oxygen was 1 min at 1L/min and I moved the stone around the bucket throughout. Bucket is in a temp controlled fridge locked at 69-70F. Brew is NB's Caribou Slobber.

The quickest and strongest fermentation I have seen to date was with my last brew where I used an electric whisk to beat some air in before pitching...

 

[jcaudill]

There are a lot of factors besides aeration that can account for this as well for example:

- Strain of yeast
- Generation of yeast
- Temperatures*****

I wouldn't exclusively blame it on the aeration.

 

[stevescott123]

Fair comment but it's the only thing that's changed compared to my last brew. Actually my temperature changed but for the better. I have a 2 stage controller on a fridge with a heater and temp is far more stable than it ever was in my home.

Yeast is a relatively fresh batch of Wyeast refrigerated on arrival and then a starter made a day prior - same as before.

Non foaming sanitizer in the airlock makes for a calmer bubble perhaps.

Should I oxygenate more/longer?

Proof will be in a couple of months I guess. Come to think of it I've worried about at least one aspect of all my brews to date. They're all drinkable!

 

[jcaudill]

i just think even with care it's too hard to really say. But - what you can do is try to rouse the yeast a bit and see if that helps. You may have to do this by shaking if you can't inject a little CO2 directly.

If your activity is slow and steady I'd just let it go. If it stops prematurely though then you may need more aeration.

 

[limulus]

If you don't want to use O2 and you don't want to use an aquarium pump or oil-free compressor, you can use an electric drill powered paint mixer. They are <$10 at HD and you don't have to pick up your carboy or plastic fermenter to shake it. http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/cat...=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=Search+All

I have two air compressors: one is a small oil-free model just like the one pictured earlier and the other is a oiled model that I would never, never, never consider using for my beer. For now, I can easily sanitize my paint mixer and get pretty good results.

 

[BullGator]

If you don't want to use O2 and you don't want to use an aquarium pump or oil-free compressor, you can use an electric drill powered paint mixer. They are <$10 at HD and you don't have to pick up your carboy or plastic fermenter to shake it. http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/Search?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&keyword=paint%20stirrer&Ns=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=Search+All

I have two air compressors: one is a small oil-free model just like the one pictured earlier and the other is a oiled model that I would never, never, never consider using for my beer. For now, I can easily sanitize my paint mixer and get pretty good results.

So do you use the oil-free compressor to aerate? If so, can you explain your setup?

 

[limulus]

No, I don't. It never even occurred to me that it was even a possibility until I saw this thread yesterday. I bought the 2HP 8gal model when I was building our home theater in the basement. It is now delegated to keeping air in our tires and the occasional job such as building my keezer. The little oil-free model was bought to use at our lake house. But I found out it was just not big enough for filling boat toys. Since it does not generate pure oxygen, I think I can get just as much into my wort using the paint mixer and the cordless drill.

 

[Psych]

I've been using compressed air to aerate <= 1.070 wort. Works great. Pure oxygen is necessary > 1.070.

Care to elaborate on this? I've taken 1.105 wort down to 1.014 just last month using nothing but stirring and dropping the wort into the fermenter from a couple feet up, splashing it.

You do not need pure o2, or even forced aeration, for everything over 1.070.

 

[stevescott123]

You do not need pure o2, or even forced aeration, for everything over 1.070.

Would have to agree and expect that to be the case when I get there. Beginning to regret that I allowed this thread to convince me that I needed to spend all tbe time, money and efffort that I have to get set up for oxygen.

My current batch was slow to start, bubbles mediocre and now has all but stopped after 5 days. Oxygenated it, have it in a very stable temp controlled environment.

My last (which I have not yet sampled) was stirred up with an electric whisk and plonked in the laundry room at 65-71. Felt a whole lot better about how that batch progressed but I'll report back when I have sampled both.

 

[modenacart]

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/WILLIAMS-OXYGEN-AERATION-SYSTEM-P699.aspx

Seems to be a pretty cheap way to aerate wort.

 

[stevescott123]

Thanks. I'm aware of this system and you'd have to read most of his thread to understand why I didn't buy it. Of course my sytem will hopefully last a very long time and only time will tell if oxygenation/aeration is as good as some say. May be more relevant when I get to the higher OG brews I'm working up to.

 

[eastoak]

Thanks. I'm aware of this system and you'd have to read most of his thread to understand why I didn't buy it. Of course my sytem will hopefully last a very long time and only time will tell if oxygenation/aeration is as good as some say. May be more relevant when I get to the higher OG brews I'm working up to.

this is well established brewing science by now.

 

[modenacart]

As many imperial beers as I have had stop short, I have ordered the aeration kit. I hope it works, because it if does, it will be worth 10 times the price.

 

[BullGator]

I have brewed many 10% abv beers with just dumping the wort back and forth. Just sayin.

 

[stevescott123]

this is well established brewing science by now.

I'm not disputing the science that has proved yeast thrive on oxygen. I'm just not convinced that geting set up with a big tank of O2, buying a medical regulator and the diffusion stone and all the time spent driving around looking for stuff was tbe best way to get it in to my homebrew. Like I said previously I got a much more confident feeling watching my splashed up pale ale in first stage than I do my oxygenated Caribou Slobber. The pale was still popping bubbles after 2 weeks in primary AND 4 in secondary. The Slobber is all but done after a week in primary. That may be a good sign; perhaps tbe added O2 and the temperature controller have allowed the yeast to do their work more efficiently. What do I know? LOL. What I do know is the Slobber is going in to 2nd stage much sooner than I planned.

Time will tell if both brews are a satisfactory drink but it will likely be very difficult to prove that the O2 contributed. Slobber is only 1050 OG and anyway I'm not going to make the same beer twice - one with and one without O2 - just to make a comparison.

 

[stevescott123]

This is off topic now, I know and apologize but I continue to be concerned about the apparent dormant state of my current brew. I'm going to transfer to the carboy tomorrow for second stage. Normally I wouldn't do anything but quietly siphon from the bucket.

Sould I allow the liguid to splash to try and bring about some more aeration? Should I add the only packet of yeast I have (which is not the same as the beer-specific Wyeast that's in there now)? Or should I not meddle with it, do as I've always done (which incidentally would mean NOT transferring it until next week) and allow time to take its course?

Thanks!

 

[eastoak]

This is off topic now, I know and apologize but I continue to be concerned about the apparent dormant state of my current brew. I'm going to transfer to the carboy tomorrow for second stage. Normally I wouldn't do anything but quietly siphon from the bucket.

Sould I allow the liguid to splash to try and bring about some more aeration? Should I add the only packet of yeast I have (which is not the same as the beer-specific Wyeast that's in there now)? Or should I not meddle with it, do as I've always done (which incidentally would mean NOT transferring it until next week) and allow time to take its course?

Thanks!

dormant for how long? generally i would leave the beer alone and would certainly not add oxygen. the yeast use up the oxygen they need in the beginning stages then get to work without any more O2 needed. some very high gravity beers can use O2 later on in the fermentation.

 

[stevescott123]

It was strong for about 3 days then almost nothing and today is 7 days since brewing. As I've said I'm used to seeing healthy fermentation for considerably longer. Does oxygen shorten the fermentation period?
I am going to transfer tomorrow but just as I've always done and not try to fix something that isn't obviously broken. Maybe that activity will restart it and maybe the tighter head space inthe carboy will play a role. Time will tell...