AHA homebrewer of the year

[dmtaylor]

@BrewnWKopperKat , those two styles are yeast driven. Some of the best hefeweizens and Belgians I ever made were back in my extract days (20 years ago). Hell... why do I bother with all-grain for yeast-driven styles. Save some time and effort.

I still wouldn't use extract for a light lager. The odds of making an award-winning brew for that style are extremely slim, all the stars would have to align every thousand years kind of thing.

 

[Bobby_M]

@BrewnWKopperKat , those two styles are yeast driven. Some of the best hefeweizens and Belgians I ever made were back in my extract days (20 years ago). Hell... why do I bother with all-grain for yeast-driven styles. Save some time and effort.

I still wouldn't use extract for a light lager. The odds of making an award-winning brew for that style are extremely slim, all the stars would have to align every thousand years kind of thing.

I know a lot of people that like making pseudo Lambics and other mixed ferm beers that use DME for speed and most would agree that there are no styles more yeast driven than those. I would argue that while making extremely delicate lighter colored lagers could be more tricky with DME, 95% of the success of those styles is fermentation and packaging. Statistics probably won't ever help us on this front because even If you had access to every BJCP sanctioned competition entry and could know the brewing method used and what the typical score was, it's correlation and not causation. You could just as easily conclude that MOST brewers who take all aspects of brewing extremely seriously, most importantly on fermentation and packaging, just happen to gravitate towards all grain due to the increased control and ingredient selection afforded.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I know a lot of people that like making pseudo Lambics and other mixed ferm beers that use DME for speed and most would agree that there are no styles more yeast driven than those. I would argue that while making extremely delicate lighter colored lagers could be more tricky with DME, 95% of the success of those styles is fermentation and packaging. Statistics probably won't ever help us on this front because even If you had access to every BJCP sanctioned competition entry and could know the brewing method used and what the typical score was, it's correlation and not causation. You could just as easily conclude that MOST brewers who take all aspects of brewing extremely seriously, most importantly on fermentation and packaging, just happen to gravitate towards all grain due to the increased control and ingredient selection afforded.

So fresh DME / LME / (maybe HME ) is just another ingredient for an experienced brewer to use when making great beer at home?

 

[Bobby_M]

So fresh DME / LME / (maybe HME ) is just another ingredient for an experienced brewer to use when making great beer at home?

Without any further extrapolation than that, yes. The prehopped extract remains an abomination.

 

[huckdavidson]

The prehopped extract remains an abomination.

Sincerely interested in any scientific explanations as to why prehopped extract is an abomination.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Sincerely interested in any scientific explanations as to why prehopped extract is an abomination.

So the last time I used prehopped LME was when I was new to brewing beer and frustrated with not achieving the correct color for a pale ale even with adding half the LME at the end of the boil. So I tried pre hopped to work around the problem. No clue as to what hop was used producing the LME results were better color, but bitter AF. This was 7 years ago the LME was Coopers. Maybe things are differently now, but after that was when I started BIAB all grain, just using DME for yeast starters and if the OG needs a bump up, which hasn’t been an issue for years.

I know this may not be the “scientific“ explanation you wanted, however if you are brewing a specific style you generally want specific hops to be “in style” or perhaps to your own tastes. Pre-hopped LME limits your flexibility.

 

[mac_1103]

Sincerely interested in any scientific explanations as to why prehopped extract is an abomination.

"Abomination" is not exactly a scientific term, so good luck with that.

 

[Bobby_M]

Sincerely interested in any scientific explanations as to why prehopped extract is an abomination.

That's an opinion, not a scientific journal article. In fact, consider 100% of my postings on this forum to be my opinion. It will save a lot of time.

Prehopped extract is the beer equivalent of Lipton instant iced tea mix. It mixes with water and makes a drink some people enjoy.

You haven't made any particular assertions about pre-hopped extract beers, but if I were to suppose that you said something like "prehopped extract can make a beer on par with any other brewing method", I would say I don't believe you. We can debate what "on par" actually means and how you would go about testing it for a very long while. The test that would convince me would be something like three different beer styles picked at random and brewed each with prehopped extract and all grain. Those beer outputs would be entered into two separate BJCP competitions (or just by a pair of BJCP judges) completely blind and if both brewing methods produce a score say within 5 points of each other.

The argument that I easily concede to is that not everyone is concerned with making the best beer they can (I don't really understand why anyone wouldn't). You could also say that you're not brewing to compete against other beer. That's fair, but it's a different discussion. I think it's true to say that all else being equal, the potential beer quality goes:

All Grain > DME + Steeping Grain > Relatively Fresh LME + Steeping Grain > Fresh Prehopped LME > Stale, several months old room temp LME (prehopped or not).

 

[mac_1103]

The argument that I easily concede to is that not everyone is concerned with making the best beer they can (I don't really understand why anyone wouldn't).

Maybe not much of a difference, but I suspect that for some the calculus is along the lines of "this is easy and the beer is OK but that other stuff sounds hard."

edit - this obviously doesn't apply to those who use fresh pre-hopped LME and supplement with steeping grain, DME, additional hops, etc; I just don't see much advantage in that over DME or fresh un-hopped LME and steeping grain.

 

[huckdavidson]

What are some scientific explanations as to why pre-hopped extract doesn't produce the best beer possible? Is there that much of a difference between a pre-hopped can hot off the line vs. one at it's expiration date? What are the chemical reactions or staling factors involved (presumed canned and O2 free)? Can these be mitigated when making the kit?

 

[mac_1103]

Is there that much of a difference between a pre-hopped can hot off the line vs. one at it's expiration date?

Depends on how it was stored, and it's usually damned near impossible to know how it was stored.

Can these be mitigated when making the kit?

There are lots of folks around here who have a lot more experience with LME than I do, but I'm pretty sure that staled extract won't make good beer no matter what you do to try to mitigate the fact that it's stale. There are plenty of threads on this forum dealing with best practices for extract brewing including ways to test the freshness of LME, but I don't know about salvaging ingredients that have actually gone bad.

 

[huckdavidson]

Looking for more science. Why is the extract staling? Is it due to heat and/or O2 exposure? Is extract canning an O2 free process? How does heat contribute to staling reactions in the absence of O2?

I've found an article that helps explain the staling process:

https://www.morebeer.com/articles/Staling_Compounds

 

[mac_1103]

Looking for more science. Why is the extract staling? Is it due to heat and/or O2 exposure? Is extract canning an O2 free process? How does heat contribute to staling reactions in the absence of O2?

Well, you could ask some of the people who make it:

When brewing with LME extracts, you must consider the elements that could affect your ingredient. The number one enemy of liquid extracts is heat. If a CBW® is exposed to temperatures above 80° prior to brewing, it can be detrimental to the overall taste and color of your brew.

Just as heat changes the color of your grains in a steep, it also has an effect on the product in a canister over time. CBW®s will experience a Maillard reaction at various temperatures and periods of time. A CBW® stored at 60° will experience minimal browning over a six month period, where as a CBW® stored at 90° on a hot summer day in a truck or warehouse will see exponential browning in just a few days. This rapid change can lead to an undesired sharp malty or tangy flavor in your brew.

 

[huckdavidson]

Well, you could ask some of the people who make it:

When brewing with LME extracts, you must consider the elements that could affect your ingredient. The number one enemy of liquid extracts is heat. If a CBW® is exposed to temperatures above 80° prior to brewing, it can be detrimental to the overall taste and color of your brew.

Just as heat changes the color of your grains in a steep, it also has an effect on the product in a canister over time. CBW®s will experience a Maillard reaction at various temperatures and periods of time. A CBW® stored at 60° will experience minimal browning over a six month period, where as a CBW® stored at 90° on a hot summer day in a truck or warehouse will see exponential browning in just a few days. This rapid change can lead to an undesired sharp malty or tangy flavor in your brew.

I think this lends to an observation I've made that the pre-hopped kit country of origin seems to have more folks who like these kits because they are probably fresher. Coopers = Australia, Muntons = UK.

Does the US have a pre-hopped (HME) kit maker?

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Does the US have a pre-hopped (HME) kit maker?

Not that I am aware of. There is some availability of the Munton's kits, but in general the pre-hopped extract kits have never been very popular in the US. Brewer's Best is a popular "entry level kit" manufacturer, but their kits are usually cans of LME (maybe with a mix of Golden, Amber or Dark cans), steeping grains, and with packs of hops that are added into the boil for bitterness and flavor.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Did a quick scan of NHC winning 'locked' recipes over at AHA.

Found four additional recipes in the 2006 - 2009 time frame.

1 of 4: NHC 2006 (link to 'locked' recipe) - Northern German Altbier

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

2 of 4: NHC 2009: Dark Lager (link to 'locked' recipe), partial mash; comments in Zymurgy magazine article.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

3 of 4: NHC 2009: Scottish and Irish Ale (link to 'locked' recipe); LME

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

4 of 4: NHC 2009 Belgian Strong Ale (link to 'locked' recipe)

 

[dmtaylor]

 

[mac_1103]

Brewer's Best is a popular "entry level kit" manufacturer, but their kits are usually cans of LME (maybe with a mix of Golden, Amber or Dark cans), steeping grains, and with packs of hops that are added into the boil for bitterness and flavor.

DME too. Some even have candi syrup! And a couple of the "advanced" kits incorporate things like a mini-mash and whirlpool hop additions.

 

[Bobby_M]

What are some scientific explanations as to why pre-hopped extract doesn't produce the best beer possible? Is there that much of a difference between a pre-hopped can hot off the line vs. one at it's expiration date? What are the chemical reactions or staling factors involved (presumed canned and O2 free)? Can these be mitigated when making the kit?

From a creative/flexibility standpoint:

Fact: PHLME has a baked in hop varietal so you can't choose that. I stock something like 60 different hops by the ounce and most of them are suitable for bittering and will give you different flavors. In other words, it's a myth that the bittering hop doesn't impact flavor at all. Yes, you can augment the brew with other hops at different timings but then you've just negated the simplicity of PHLME (which I suspect is the only reason one would buy it).

Fact: The bitterness is already locked in. Once you dilute to wort strength, it has so many IBUs and not plus or minus. Same caveat as above. You COULD jack around with the process to add more bitterness or add plain extract to dilute the hop intensity but same "why" question.

Hypothesis: The quality of hop flavor may be negatively impacted by the water removal process to make the LME. E.g. canned foods taste less fresh than fresh foods.

The other detriment is freshness, but that applies to all LME. If you're not standing in the store looking at the packaging date right on product you're about to walk out with, you have no idea what you're going to get and LME gets rank as it ages. As more people transition to all grain brewing due to the widely available all in one systems, the demand for extract slows and product sits on the shelf longer and longer. In my store maybe 10% of DME goes out destined for a beer while 90% is bought for making yeast starters. I can usually tell when it's for a recipe because it's bought with yeast and hops for example.

The only real reason to use LME is if you can't source DME at all or you don't want to learn all grain brewing (at least not yet). No matter what recipe you want to make, you can use DME and boil hops for any situation that PHLME was going to be used.

I think the best way to really see what quality differences may exist is to just brew a few different methods and taste the beer. If you want a more objective rating of where the beer lands, BJCP competitions are the best we have for that. In my previous post I was careful to suggest picking three beer styles at random because that kind of removes the ability to cherry pick styles that would do best with extracts as we've discussed in the earlier part of the thread.

 

[huckdavidson]

...but in general the pre-hopped extract kits have never been very popular in the US.

Blue Ribbon and Premier extracts used to be readily available.

From a creative/flexibility standpoint:

Fact: PHLME has a baked in hop varietal so you can't choose that. I stock something like 60 different hops by the ounce and most of them are suitable for bittering and will give you different flavors. In other words, it's a myth that the bittering hop doesn't impact flavor at all. Yes, you can augment the brew with other hops at different timings but then you've just negated the simplicity of PHLME (which I suspect is the only reason one would buy it).

Fact: The bitterness is already locked in. Once you dilute to wort strength, it has so many IBUs and not plus or minus. Same caveat as above. You COULD jack around with the process to add more bitterness or add plain extract to dilute the hop intensity but same "why" question.

Hypothesis: The quality of hop flavor may be negatively impacted by the water removal process to make the LME. E.g. canned foods taste less fresh than fresh foods.

The other detriment is freshness, but that applies to all LME. If you're not standing in the store looking at the packaging date right on product you're about to walk out with, you have no idea what you're going to get and LME gets rank as it ages. As more people transition to all grain brewing due to the widely available all in one systems, the demand for extract slows and product sits on the shelf longer and longer. In my store maybe 10% of DME goes out destined for a beer while 90% is bought for making yeast starters. I can usually tell when it's for a recipe because it's bought with yeast and hops for example.

The only real reason to use LME is if you can't source DME at all or you don't want to learn all grain brewing (at least not yet). No matter what recipe you want to make, you can use DME and boil hops for any situation that PHLME was going to be used.

I think the best way to really see what quality differences may exist is to just brew a few different methods and taste the beer. If you want a more objective rating of where the beer lands, BJCP competitions are the best we have for that. In my previous post I was careful to suggest picking three beer styles at random because that kind of removes the ability to cherry pick styles that would do best with extracts as we've discussed in the earlier part of the thread.

A common practice with HME kits is to adjust the volume to increase or decrease the ABV. Does this also increase or decrease the IBUs?

I've brewed a Coopers 86 Day Pilsner and hope to bottle this week.

 

[mac_1103]

Blue Ribbon and Premier extracts used to be readily available.

That was a long time ago, when almost nothing else was readily available.

A common practice with HME kits is to adjust the volume to increase or decrease the ABV. Does this also increase or decrease the IBUs?

Wouldn't that be just like adjusting the volume but not the amount of hops with any other brewing method?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Blue Ribbon and Premier extracts used to be readily available.

Check the various US-based on-line home brew stores to see if anyone offers it for sale.

Muntons makes a spraymalt (dry) malt extract (which was used in some of those "shake and brew" videos). If you can find a source for it in the various US-based on-line home brew stores, that might be interesting.

A common practice with HME kits is to adjust the volume to increase or decrease the ABV. Does this also increase or decrease the IBUs?

Yes.

 

[Bobby_M]

A common practice with HME kits is to adjust the volume to increase or decrease the ABV. Does this also increase or decrease the IBUs?

Yes the total IBUs in the extract are fixed so it drops linearly in proportion to how much water gets added. However, as you'd expect, both the pre and post fermentation specific gravity correlate by about the same attenuation so the more concentrated version will generally accommodate a higher bitterness.

 

[ncbrewer]

Yes the total IBUs in the extract are fixed so it drops linearly in proportion to how much water gets added. However, as you'd expect, both the pre and post fermentation specific gravity correlate by about the same attenuation so the more concentrated version will generally accommodate a higher bitterness.

I think of this as maintaining the same BU:GU ratio - same concept.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Recent page over at AHA with the 2023 gold medal recipes: 2023 National Homebrew Competition Gold Medal Recipes

Two recipes using DME + steeping grains won this year:

• Midnight Beach Dream (Dunkles Weissbier)
• Highwayman Saison

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

... adding a couple of award willing DME based recipes to the list

• #292
• #302
• #368

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

While not an award winning beer, a 34 at NHC (2024) regionals is certainly a respectable score (link).

I haven't been involved in competitions since 2019, but in the 2017-2019 timeframe, when I was steward for pale ale tables, a 34 with a pale ale almost always moved on to mini-BOS.

as an aside: some of my subscriptions are going (or have gone) on hiatus, so I won't be scanning 2024 winning recipes for extract recipes.

edits: formatting

 

[Willy]

Right I knew that, So how would you create a starter with dry yeast?

1000 ml boiled water mixed with 100 g of dry malt extract ... Let it cool, add dry yeast. Swoosh it manually or get a stir plate w. stir bar magnet. Pitch in 24 to 48 hours.

The benefit of pitching dry yeast ? Usually fermentation starts earlier and you also will be sending in little yeastie soldiers that are healthy and ready to chomp.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

FYI & FWIW, I probably won't update this topic with the list of gold medal extract recipes (if any) from NHC 2024.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I’ll resurrect this old thread for selfish reasons.

I got second place in the 2021 NHC finals to the American Lager made with LME that went on to win Best of Show. This year I redeemed myself. I placed 1st in the Pale American Lager finals and went on to win BOS and AHA Homebrewer of the Year with an American Lager made with Minute Rice. I was told I could not win anything with that “crappy” rice. Well I guess that myth is blown away along with other myths, like you can’t make a decent DME beer.

Here’s the recipe:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/216382/standard-american-lager-ii-aka-lynns-lager

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

I’ll resurrect this old thread for selfish reasons.

I got second place in the 2021 NHC finals to the American Lager made with LME that went on to win Best of Show. This year I redeemed myself. I placed 1st in the Pale American Lager finals and went on to win BOS and AHA Homebrewer of the Year with an American Lager made with Minute Rice. I was told I could not win anything with that “crappy” rice. Well I guess that myth is blown away along with other myths, like you can’t make a decent DME beer.

Here’s the recipe:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/216382/standard-american-lager-ii-aka-lynns-lager

Well, yeah minute rice doesn’t have any interesting flavor nor aroma, so it’s perfect for the style! Seriously, congrats!

 

[doug293cz]

I’ll resurrect this old thread for selfish reasons.

I got second place in the 2021 NHC finals to the American Lager made with LME that went on to win Best of Show. This year I redeemed myself. I placed 1st in the Pale American Lager finals and went on to win BOS and AHA Homebrewer of the Year with an American Lager made with Minute Rice. I was told I could not win anything with that “crappy” rice. Well I guess that myth is blown away along with other myths, like you can’t make a decent DME beer.

Here’s the recipe:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/216382/standard-american-lager-ii-aka-lynns-lager

Congratulations!

Brew on

 

[NiwotBrew]

I’ll resurrect this old thread for selfish reasons.

I got second place in the 2021 NHC finals to the American Lager made with LME that went on to win Best of Show. This year I redeemed myself. I placed 1st in the Pale American Lager finals and went on to win BOS and AHA Homebrewer of the Year with an American Lager made with Minute Rice. I was told I could not win anything with that “crappy” rice. Well I guess that myth is blown away along with other myths, like you can’t make a decent DME beer.

Here’s the recipe:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/216382/standard-american-lager-ii-aka-lynns-lager

Dude, that’s huge, congrats!!

 

[mrcastellino]

I’ll resurrect this old thread for selfish reasons.

I got second place in the 2021 NHC finals to the American Lager made with LME that went on to win Best of Show. This year I redeemed myself. I placed 1st in the Pale American Lager finals and went on to win BOS and AHA Homebrewer of the Year with an American Lager made with Minute Rice. I was told I could not win anything with that “crappy” rice. Well I guess that myth is blown away along with other myths, like you can’t make a decent DME beer.

Here’s the recipe:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/216382/standard-american-lager-ii-aka-lynns-lager

Huge congrats—seriously well done! And extra props for the gold in German Pilsner. Two golds at NHC Finals is no joke—in some years, that would’ve had you in the running for the Ninkasi award!

I was honestly surprised to hear anyone give you grief over using minute rice in an American adjunct lager. I mainly brew lagers too, and I also brew American and American Light Lagers from time to time. Like you, I use minute rice—usually around 20%. Flaked rice (and most flaked grains) can go stale pretty quickly, and it’s hard to know how fresh it really is from your supplier. With these styles, you want something neutral that lightens the body without adding off or stale flavors, and minute rice works great for that.

To me, the real takeaway here—whether it’s minute rice or even LME as the main fermentable—is that process matters way more than ingredients alone. The fact that you pulled off two gold medals for lagers at NHC just shows how dialed in your process and system must be.

Not to hijack this thread (especially since it’s in the Extract forum), but I’d love to hear more about how you approach things—especially fermentation and packaging. I’m always curious to learn from other lager brewers who are getting great results.

A few questions if you don’t mind:

• LODO: Are you doing any low dissolved oxygen techniques on the hot side?
• Wort into the fermenter: I saw in another post that you step mash with a long beta rest, then alpha rest and mashout, with constant recirculation. That must give you super clear wort. Do you send clear wort into the fermenter, or do you carry over some cold break for nutrients? I know there’s a lot of debate on that. I’ve leaned toward super clear wort and just add yeast nutrient cold side.
• Dry yeast & oxygen: I’ve always used liquid yeast—usually a 4L starter, cold crashed and decanted, pitched cold, fermented cold, and then spunded late in the keg to cut down on O₂ pickup. But I’m starting to come around on dry yeast. I saw you like 34/70, pitched at 52°F, then let it rise to 7.5 psi before ramping to 60°F and 25 psi for spunding. Do you pitch the dry yeast straight into the wort, or rehydrate it first? And do you still aerate when using dry yeast?
• Sulfur control: I’ve started ramping the temp at the end—not for a D-rest, but to help drive off sulfur. Even if it’s at a reasonable level for German lagers, I’ve had judges ding me for it. I’m talking specifically SO₂, not H₂S. Just wondering if you’ve noticed any sulfur hanging around with your cold + pressurized fermentation/spunding setup—or if you’re doing anything else to deal with it.
• Packaging side: Besides a closed transfer and purged keg, do you do anything else? Like using ascorbic acid or metabisulfite post-crash?

Sorry for the wall of questions—I’m just super into lager brewing and always looking to learn from others who’ve clearly nailed it. Big congrats again on the wins!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Not to hijack this thread (especially since it’s in the Extract forum), but

Permission to hijack the thread is granted .

Those of us who like a shorter brew day (by delegating the mash to others) are looking forward to the discussion.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Huge congrats—seriously well done! And extra props for the gold in German Pilsner. Two golds at NHC Finals is no joke—in some years, that would’ve had you in the running for the Ninkasi award!

Thanks! I also got a gold for my Cold IPA. That gave me 18 points and I believe the NIkasi winner got 20 points, So I was just shy of winning both. BOS isn't bad either, I'll gladly take it. I honestly was expecting to be skunked this year. That competition is brutal.

LODO: Are you doing any low dissolved oxygen techniques on the hot side?

Yes. I used it on all tree beers. I don't go as far as others but I do use a mash cap and Oxblox in he mash. I use it for different reasons. Oxidation of the lipids in the mash can produce staling in the finished beer. Reducing the lipids by a constant vorlouf and reducing the oxidation of lipids can prevent the loss of malt and hop character in the finished beer. It has the same effect, but it's a different way of looking at it. The other thing is that sodium metabisulfite will act as a bleaching agent. The color will be keep down with losing any malt character.

Dry yeast & oxygen: I’ve always used liquid yeast—usually a 4L starter, cold crashed and decanted, pitched cold, fermented cold, and then spunded late in the keg to cut down on O₂ pickup. But I’m starting to come around on dry yeast. I saw you like 34/70, pitched at 52°F, then let it rise to 7.5 psi before ramping to 60°F and 25 psi for spunding. Do you pitch the dry yeast straight into the wort, or rehydrate it first? And do you still aerate when using dry yeast?

I hydrate the yeast prior to pitching, I think it reduces lag time. I don't use any oxygen with dry yeast, but always with liquid yeast. I have been learning to use 34/70 to get the beers I'm shooting for. It's by far the best yeast for American lagers and Cold IPA's. I now think it probably the best yeast for German Pils, It's dry, but I'm surprised by the maltiness. I beginning to wonder if it's an effect of pressure fermenting. Lag times are 18-24 hours @ 52F and 6-8 at 62F (Cold IPA). I use 34/70 for all three beers.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Sorry, I fat fingered a bunch of stuff. I'll start over.

Wort into the fermenter: I saw in another post that you step mash with a long beta rest, then alpha rest and mashout, with constant recirculation. That must give you super clear wort. Do you send clear wort into the fermenter, or do you carry over some cold break for nutrients? I know there’s a lot of debate on that. I’ve leaned toward super clear wort and just add yeast nutrient cold side.

I make enough wort to to get very clear wort into the fermenter. Like you I add the nutrient to the fermenter by boiling 3/4 cup of distilled water and add the nutrient and Fermcap. This helps dissolve and sanitize the nutrient and the Fermcap. Fermcap reduces foaming when wort is added to the fermenter.

The clear wort has all the nutrient the wort needs with the exception of zinc. By adding the nutrient to the cold side you reduce the zinc being stripped by the trub in the boil. The zinc will drop out of solution in the boil and even if the trub is added to the fermenter the zinc will not be available to the yeast.

By reducing the trub in the wort you also reduce lipids, which the yeast could use, but too much leads to premature staling.

Sulfur control: I’ve started ramping the temp at the end—not for a D-rest, but to help drive off sulfur. Even if it’s at a reasonable level for German lagers, I’ve had judges ding me for it. I’m talking specifically SO₂, not H₂S. Just wondering if you’ve noticed any sulfur hanging around with your cold + pressurized fermentation/spunding setup—or if you’re doing anything else to deal with it.

All lager fermentation will produce some sulfur. Lagering goes a long way to reduce sulfur compounds. There are studies to suggest that low levels of FAN will produce more sulfur. That seems to be true when making a high adjunct beer. Oxygen ingress will impact your ability to lager for longer times. I found the American Lager needs 6 weeks and the Pils needs 8. One of the judges commented on the Pils "no sulfur, but still okay" , seems to me he was expecting sulfur, but none did not take away from the beer

Packaging side: Besides a closed transfer and purged keg, do you do anything else? Like using ascorbic acid or metabisulfite post-crash?

I add 1/2 to 1 gram of PMB when I clear the beer with gelatin 48 hours after crashing. I have a modified 1/4 barrel tall Sanke that allows me to keep positive pressure in the vessel to prevent oxygen ingress. So when I open the top the co2 is inject into the first gas port and vented out the top and when the top is put back on, the second gas port vents through a airlock. I allow it to purge after once it closed up for a minute or 2. The vent pressure is about 2 PSI. Oxygen ingress on the cold side is a problem for homebrewers and pro's alike. It wrecks a beer in a hurry.

Sorry for the wall of questions—I’m just super into lager brewing and always looking to learn from others who’ve clearly nailed it. Big congrats again on the wins!

Thanks for the compliment, but I don't feel like I nailed yet. I think it was a bit of luck for sure, I do like geeking out on this stuff, so the questions are welcomed. Lagers are by far my favorite beers to brew. They are demanding mistresses.

Hope that helps!

Wayne
.